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Vitamin B12 is produced using micro organisms. And the primary microorganisms used in the commercial production of B12 belong to the animal Kingdom. Vitamin B12 Synthesis and Industrial Production

+1 Kudos for taking on the topic in a straightforward and rational approach. This topic/thread is by nature polarizing and I don't doubt that fact is behind many of the 'I don't like labels' protestations. But science is not a matter of like or not, it's a matter of facts, or per se qualifications. I have not yet looked at Social Dominance in depth and until I do I can only give a cursory address to a few of the issues you bring up below. I can only say that I lived through the Civil Rights era and I think Johnson's 'we' referred to we-the-people-of-the-United-States, i.e. the Union. I have my doubts that 'we' ever had the South in that vein and Johnson may have better said 'lost for another generation'. In any case I have bookmarked your link and will read it. I am familiar with those statistical analyses in general even if not from those specific sources. Duly noted. I think you(all) will find those are also the areas with the greatest occurrences of gerrymandering and photo-ID legislation which have at their heart the aim to restrict the participation of poor [mostly] minority voters. It's not clear which analysis you refer to here so I'll wait for clarification before commenting. Is it Social Dominance or Right-Wing Authoritarianism? While I did not directly quote many-if-any passages from The Authoritarians that approach racism, they are there. I think Bob refers to it as 'ethnocentrism' and we can debate whether or not that terminology is a dodge or not. However, a rose by any other name and Bob does take and analyze data on this psychological aspect of not only conservatives but all respondents to the questionnaires. In regard to 'mild' insanity, Bob's analysis finds that folks who rate as high RWAs do so in part because of their ethnocentric bias -say racism- and that a high RWA rating is strongly correlated to those who describe themselves as conservatives. Kudos again Ten oz; I very much appreciate your comments and the time & effort it took to prepare them. I have yet to finish my own preparatory work, vis a vis finishing the reading of The Authoritarians, so I will get back to that before moving on to looking at Social Dominance. I'll also do a bit of review and see if there something on the racism issue that I can quote in response to the issues you bring up. While I have not yet read it, Bob Altemeyer has a recent piece (2010 IIRC) on the Tea Party as it relates to RWA. Here is a link to the full PDF. >> Comment on the Tea Party Movement ------------------------- Addendum: Here's something on prejudice/racism from Chapter 1. The section heading on A Profound Ethnocentrism is in Chapter Three beginning on PDF page 93, but there is no mention of racism. (Don't let that stop you from reading it anyway. ) I'll keep my eye out for any other mentions. The Authoritarians Having now read about half of the article on the Southern Strategy I retract my doubtification. As we didn't have the interweb in the 60's, let alone the 80's, such in-depth analysis was the purview of political magazine articles and to a lesser extent newspapers. While I'm old enough to have lived through those times I am not so old as to have been focusing on these issues. The article I will have to finish tomorrow, but I have already found the references to conservative Democrats pre-70's not at all in discord with the right-wing authoritarian assessments of personality 'disorder'. The names have been changed to protect the guilty? PS My apparent wall-o-text is in reality 3 separate posts which were jammed together by our beloved forum software. Curses on its progenitors.

Glad to have added to your knowledge. I have some other sources of exegesis for Genesis but I will have to root through some archives to find them. If I can find them and they are as I remember, I will post again. Edit: PS Here's another creation and flood myth from the 18th century BCE. I don't recall having read much on it so I can't give a qualified comparison to Genesis at this point. >> Atra-Hasis --------------------- Found the Mother load. Ain't hermeneutics fun‽ Appended Addendum: >> The Genesis of Everything: An historical account of the Bible’s opening chapter > ENUMA ELISH: THE EPIC OF CREATION (A translation and link to full text) > Enûma Elis @ Wiki >Documentary hypothesis @ Wiki > Dating the Pentateuch, Genesis and the Archaeological Anomalies and Anachronisms: Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.

I disagree. It seems obvious to me that some individual made a particular discovery of geometry which they then shared with others. If along with the principle there was some utility then the likelihood of that discovery being perpetuated is increased. It also seems likely that the original discovery would be made in the context of some utilitarian activity as explicated above by imatfaal; e.g. how many fence posts are needed to surround pasture X and/or how many sheep can be adequately housed in pasture Y.

But Walter, that does not address the psychology in-and-of itself. You are just giving an example of an economic approach without any reference to the whys and wherefores of the reasoning or motivation behind it. You seem to have missed the evidence I cited. Here it is again. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/68375-has-the-republican-party-lost-its-collective-mind/?hl=batshit#entry697415 I followed your link when you posted it John but it is just to a thread rife with ranting and examples of 'bat-shit crazy' Rebublican behavior. (Yes, I joined in a bit of that myself. Shame on me. ) However, as with Walter's example above, your reference John does not address the psychology behind such behaviors nor is that thread as broad as the topic of this thread which is looking at the science that analyses 'whacky' conservative behaviors beyond just Republicans or just within the US. Have either of you yet read the initial meta-study from the OP here? Anyone? I can only presume not.

I found it here. Alas while that works, I wouldn't call it simple. If you were to take some 'large' number it would be simpler to perform long division. Is 39,084,351,522 evenly divisible by 7?

The flood story of Genesis is lifted from The Epic of Gilgamesh which dates to about 2500BC. As to what regional flood it may refer I have never seen a qualified explication. One might surmise an event in the Tigris/Euphrates valley?

As I earlier pointed out, it's not my thread by choice. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you read the whole thread even if it's not apparent. Be that as it may I have yet to see a response from anyone on the topic of the studies put forward in the (or per se my) Opening Post nor any indication any respondents have actually read the meta-study or the first study I have been exploring in depth. I welcome your comments Ten oz -and any-or-every ones' comments- if they are on topic. Here we have an opportunity to gain a scientific perspective on a most vexing phenomena and yet no one seems able or willing to seize it and instead all seem determined to do exactly the opposite to imatfaal's early admonition. To whit: If this trend continues I entreat staff to close the thread. Color me frowning.

I suppose I'm beating a dead horse here, but any chance you could couch your comments in terms of the topic? While I have not seen much-if-any mention of British 'mild' political insanity in the study that I am currently covering, there is mention of Canada and Australia. I assure you y'all aren't missing out on a share of high right-wing authoritarians and I suspect your years-long dust-up between the Catholics and Protestants would not be lacking for such individuals whether followers or leaders. You seem to have at least hinted at the psychology of right-wing/conservative politics, but as for reference or -dare I say evidence- ...nada. On that note, the next up is Chapter 4. Note that this is just the first of 80+ plus studies covered in the meta study of the OP so we have ample time for on topic commentary of the scientific kind. (Not that I'm holding my breath for that party.) The Authoritarians

With all due respect none of that is the subject of this thread. Please revisit the OP and stay on topic.

An untestable hypothesis is worthless by default. Wise creationism is an oxymoron.

The topic of this thread is [political] psychology and if you can't stay on topic stay out of it. Introducing your personal opinions/preferences/actions as evidence is baiting other respondents to direct personal replies to/at you which is against our rules and already warned against by staff in this thread. ------------------------ Returning to the topic at hand, a summary of topic headings from Chapter Three of The Authoritarians which are indicative of 'mild' insanity and a quote from that chapter's footnotes. Chapter Three How Authoritarian Followers Think 1. Illogical Thinking 2. Highly Compartmentalized Minds 3. Double Standards 4. Hypocrisy 5. Blindness To Themselves 6. A Profound Ethnocentrism 7. Dogmatism: The Authoritarians Last Ditch Defense [bolding mine]

Yet again you avoid addressing the specifics of what you want cut. I'm not surprised. And never mind that raising the debt ceiling has historically been a no-big-deal regular occurrence even in Republican/conservative run Congress' of the US. Oh, and pay no attention to the surplus that Bush inherited and what he did to it. Conservative insanity is no different in Canada as you would know from the Canadian author of the scientific psychological work I have been citing if you were to bother and read it.

As I quoted from The Authoritarians in the Is Political Conservatism a mild form of Insanity? thread, Bob Altemeyer mentions the Weathermen as such an example. He goes on to mention that they quickly blew away. (formed in 1969 the Weather Underground was defunct by 1975). So no; compared to today's Republican Party there are no Democrat/Left-Wing collective-lost-minds analogs. post #37 On the idea of comparing Republicans of different eras, the original Republican President Abe Lincoln came to mind. Pointedly I was thinking of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and the now-whacked Republicans suing President Obama for overstepping his authority with Executive Orders. Shall we talk about getting back to the tradional roots of the GOP? (The prejudicial aspects of RWA (Right-Wing Authoritarians) are covered in the other thread.)

Surface dwellers beware! While underground or otherwise indoor growing with lights gives a year-round supply, it takes a considerable amount of electricity to produce the same light as old Sol. I can tell you from my experience doing starts indoors this year that the pictured setups don't even come close.

There are a couple refinements on the 3, 6, & 9 divisibility. If you continue the summing of digits in the 9 example until you arrive at a single digit (called taking the digital root) you can know divisibility by 3, 6, and 9. If the digital root is 9 the number divides by 3 & 9 and if the number is even it also divides by 6. So with the example 50832, 5+0+8+3+2=18 and 1+8=9. So 50832 divides by 3 & 9 and because it is even it also divides by 6.

The garden continues apace. Had some probs with aphids on the Brussels Sprouts but beat them back with soapy water in a spray bottle. Haven't seen any more in a week. We have a few Cabbage Moths but they haven't been many and the few we have do little damage. Harvested one Sunflower head and dried the seeds in the dehydrator rather the my usual oven-drying. Came out delish! Also have done a small batch of tomatoes in dehydrator and more Blueberries. The Rasberries and Strawberries continue to produce as well as the Zucchinis, while the Yellow Squashes are about done and the Butternut Squashes not yet done. Dill seed will be ready soon, peas are done, and the Basil, Thyme, Tomatoes, Sunflowers, Cucumbers, Radish pods, and Parsley keep keeping on. (Prolly forgot something; please forgive. ) Here's a few shots from today's harvest. Jalapeños Jalapeños in Dehydrator Radish Pods Romas

It would help the discussion if you would give references to support your comment, 'as I understand'. We can hardly be expected to know if you misunderstood or not if we aren't privy to your sources. PS No need for the all caps.

The cat's out of the bag. You responded from the heart and that is exactly the issue I am getting at here; the psychology of conservatism. (Presuming here that you are 'conservative', though if you're not I can't imagine what is driving your impassioned defense of that group.) Only that they seem driven by fear. I think you want to severely punish people that you see as deserving of punishment. I had to re-read several times to understand what you were referring to. It would be helpful if you would use the quote function when quoting from someone directly. Otherwise it appears that we are reading your words. So yes, I have a comment. Heaven forbid a government should do anything to help individuals. We need not only links but specific quotes from those sources that directly address points you are trying to make. ---------------------------- Continuing with some quotes from Bob. (Note that the page numbers I am using are PDF page numbers and not the page numbers printed in the PDF.) The Authoritarians

That statement is not only silly, it flies in the face of the obvious facts. Does anyone honestly think/claim that Ted Cruz, or Bobby Jindal, or John Boehner don't [proudly] label themselves as Republicans or as conservatives? I have seen this protestation over labels at least a half a dozen times here in the past weeks in the numerous threads we have on conservative politics, and it is a lame now as the first time it was uttered.

Same policies as apply to your household. Live within your means ! Don't live large and saddle your kids with debt. That doesn't answer my question, as I'm sure you well know. My household doesn't have to maintain an army, inspect food, build roads, or umpteen other functions that government does for all of us. Yet another strawman dodge from you I must say. I suspect from what I've seen so far in this thread that the answer is yes; any rebuttal is Too Long To Read. Why read something you know you'll disagree with and/or not understand the reasoning for? Yes; it would serve the purpose of the forum rules which ask that we all support our assertions with references. Who exactly is the 'we' that is asking that? Could it be, oh I don't know.... conservatives? I note how similar in structure the question is to questions used in the RWA questionnaire. Note the terms 'smothering', 'dissolving', 'tyranny', 'omnipotent', 'engulfs', and 'ceaseless'. Of course no right-wing authoritarian conservative will have any truck with such scientific too-long-to-read nonsense as I have been referencing this past week that puts the spotlight on just why these terms have so much importance to them and why these terms are so meaningless.

On the one hand you say you don't know what political conservatism is, and on the other you declare yourself a [presumably politically] fiscal conservative. What political fiscal conservative policies do you espouse? Please be specific inasmuch as your general wash informs us of nothing.

I suggest that you don't understand sufficient and necessary regards logical conditions. No need to respond further however as there's nothing to be gained by it.

No, 'they' did not 'forgive enough to not seek physical revenge'. They did not seek physical revenge because they feared being killed, i.e. the war would still be on. I agree on your last independent clause and note it is pretty much the opposite of the claim you earlier made that prompted me to reply here. My phrasing would be 'trust and forgiveness are sufficient for peace, but not necessary'.

They trusted enough to lay down their arms and forgave enough to not seek revenge. No; they were beat into submission and surrendered to avoid being killed. (Arguably those in the American South continue to exact political revenge.) As of last night's new that I saw, the newest Israeli/Palestinian truce was holding because Hamas was beat into submission [for now]. Their tunnels are largely destroyed and their supply of rockets more-or-less exhausted.