truckrazy

I know that ome of my posts have been emotional, However, it is not just because of the fact that I love my dogs. There are many people that know what I know about these dogs. While most of what has been said since my last post is true. There is a lot of emotional value. Just as with any dog. I was also trying to add some viable prof as to that these dogs do have something "special" over some other dogs. These dogs have been given a bad reputation by ignorant people. But if you have looked at the law dogs website, you will see something that people who want to ban or eliminate the breed have no clue about. If someone is going to make a decision they need to make sure it is an educated one, and they need to weigh many different types of research. Quantitative is not always the most reliable form of research. When it is something that someone does not agree with, and challenges, then the data needs to be able to be backed up with qualitative research. That is where this "experiment" has failed. Since the quantitative data has been challenged, there needs to be qualitative data researched to validate that the numbers are in fact actual pitbulls, and attacks, not just what someone says about it. This is all this thread comes down to. I and a few others disagree with the thought that these dogs should be banned. And most of them have given up. However, a wise person can see both sides of the fence so to speak. They are the ones who know the facts of both sides and base their decisions on that. A wise person is open-minded to reseach and find evidence for both arguments. All it boils down to is public misconception. It is clear that how many people have not had any experience with the breed??? How can they pass such a judgement on anything without actually researching both sides. It;s like saying cars should be banned because this number of people are killed each year. And the everyone should ride public transportaion, and work schedules should go by this schedule

the video is in my opinion considered a part of qualitative data showing that these dogs are not all bad, like you have agreed to. My problem is far from being with you. My problem is with people who say that this breed should be banned for the few dogs that do attack. While points that have been brought up may be valid, it is all based on solely questionable data. Numbers can be disputed, especially when these numbers are not verified with qualitative data, as I have been trying to say. I have tried to express my point. I know for a fact from talking to a lot of people that many people lump many breeds, such as Amstaffs, Staffordshire Terriers, Boxers, and breeds such as these into being a pitbull. I may not be a science whiz, but I do know that there is sometimes mistakes in a theory. I am trying to merely pointthat out. That is why I have repeatedly asked for someone to show me qualitative data, with the numbers. That is all I am trying to do. I do not think that there is research done on the situations of these attacks and deaths. It is just like an irresponsible parent. If a parent leaves a young child at home by themsleves all day, or leaves their child in a locked car with the windows up, it is irresponsible, right? If an owner let's their dog roam free, or on the other hand, if someone taunts a dog, is that not being irresponsible? The irresponsible parties should be punnished, right? Why should the child be punished for the parent's irresponsibilty, or why should a dog be punished for their owner's irresponsibility?

Like I have said I don't know how many times, my opinion is not just based on my love of the dog. It is also based on my experience, and the experience of others. I would like to see some qualitative data to support a questionable quantitative data.

yes, ny opinion is based on my love of the dog, however you are only aking bits and pieces of my comments and using them against me. My stance is not solely based on the love of my dogs, but also on research pertaining to both sides of this argument. thank you for calling me silly, and that my argument screams to be destroyed. Feel free to shoot me down. Bring it. Bring some qualitative data to the table. Support the data that has been brought already. Most of the sites that have statistics on dog bites say on the site that the validity of the statistics is based on the stories that are covered. That to me says that the statistics are not very reliable. Shoot me down, go ahead.

no. I don't think we should. I can say something but am choosing not to. I was in their shoes once before. I hated pit bulls and thought they should all be wiped off the face of the earth. Then I started actually researching the breed. What I found is all of the statistics that they have been talking about, but the statistics I found were not verified, or very reliable. Then I got one, fell in love, then another, fell in love, then another and fell in love. That is what changed my mind. I actually got to see what they were really like, not necessarily what the media has made them out to be, which is the reason behind the hatred that people have towards the breed. They just don't know. I could be really mean and outright rude about this. Yes this a little bit of a touchy subject for me. I am one of those who hate people who pass judgement without educating themselves first. And by that, I mean they don't need to research one side of the subject, they need to look at both sides. It's just plain ignorant to make a decision on something when you only know parts of the data. Besides, I have found on here that their decisions are based on quantitative data, and that is it. In my opinion with a subject like this, you also need to be looking at the qualitative data. Am I right. I know that you never would have thought to hear something like that from me, because of the conversation we had a few days ago. But I do know a little bit about science.

I know this wasn't towards me, but there are bad owners and dogs that attack people, as is well known, but the difference is that pit bulls get more publicity. If another breed attacks or kills a human, it may be mentioned in a local newspaper or the local news. But if a pit bull attacks or kills someone, then it is astatewide, and sometimes a nationwide media spread. that is the difference. So in reality, pit bulls are no worse than any other breed. What makes them seem that way, is that some little 35 pound dogs have the strength to pull a car (some of them). these are extremely strong dogs for their size. Plus they have the reputation they do because of ignorant people.

here is something in defense that these dogs have no value http://www.lawdogsusa.org/home.html

I have been trying to give evidence that these dogs are as violent as they are made to be. I have posted pictures of dogs with children and I can post many more. That is evidence. That is proof. I have seen pictures of dogs attacked by "pitbulls". When I saw a picture of the dog, it was actually a boxer. I have also posted pictures of what people have done to these dogs. I guess that was missed or considered irrelevent. If you have never actually been around these dogs and interacted with them, you cannot pass judgement. You only hear what people on the news hear, and we know how reliable the stories on the news can be. Pieces of information are missing, or made up to make it out to be something that is not the whole truth. The pictures I have posted of what people have done to these dogs are mild pictures. I have extremely heartwrenching and gut twisting pictures and videos of what people have done to these dogs. You also have not taken into consideration, or missed the fact that any living breathing mammal fights for their own life. Yes there may have been people killed by these dogs, but there is always missing information. Such as an owner that has gotten by killed by this breed, but what is not mentioned is generally the fact that this person was taunting the dog and even possibly abusing it. My dogs are very sweet dogs and would never attack anyone without a reason. I have heard a situation come up where someone threw stones the size of a baseball at a pitbull. the dog retalliated, then the guy beat the dog with a 2X4. Those are the things that the news does not report. And the fact that the dog was on a chain. I will show you some things that people do to these dogs because they are so "vicious". Yet when you look at the pictures and videos, think about this. If this dog is so vicious, then how did they catch the dog to do this to it.

ah someone else who has experience around these dogs. interesting that someone else can see my point. welcome to the debate.

John...I asked a question earlier I believe abouthow many of these dogs are actually verified as pit bulls. I still have not recieved a backed up answer. Actually I have asked quite a few answers that I have not recieved answers to. Can I ask you a question. How much do you actually know about the breed? and I'm not talking about hear say.

okay, not sure how to do the milti quote thing. but i have a question for you John. These dogs that most likely you and many other people call pit bulls are not just pit bulls, but some are just bullybreeds or dogs that have similar traits as a pit bull. Those dogs are not pit bulls, there is a difference for people who know these dogs well. so statistically speaking, there is no hard evidence showing that these dogs are in fact true pit bulls, is there? if so, then show me, please. As far a the something special, i guess you haven't read my previous post. These dogs are used in law enforcement in some areas and also as public service animals. also, I have a poodle and three pit bulls. They are all very special to me. So tell me, what is so special about a chihuahua, or a lab, or a retriever, or a poodle?? And as far as the dishonesty comment, was that aimed at me? if so what are you saying I am being dishonest about, and show me the "honest" answer. one more thing I have to add. I added pictures to my post showing children with dogs, these children have obviously not been attacked by a pit bull, otherwise you would not see pictures of children with these dogs. There are also pictures of the elderly with these dogs, and they are not being attacked. I have added just below that pictures of dogs that have been abused. Dogs have instincts just like human beings. Imagine this for a second. You have some stranger walk up to you, or even your best friend, and al of a sudden they start yelling and cussing and beating you up. What would you do? Would you not fight back? A lot of the cases you see on the news and hear about are in fact a dog just trying to survive. But many people value a human life over an animal. A human life that may have very well been very abusive to an animal. And an animal that has the traits of wanting to do nothing but please their owner, and feel safe and loved. John, do you have a dog?

so then why would you have to train them to be good dogs?? as someone has said in a previous post... cap'n most dogs can sense if a person is a good one or a bad one. I know my dogs can. I base who I trust on how my dogs act towards them

you would like to know what is so special about these dogs. In my and many other people's opinions, these dogs are incredible companions. They are loving and protective, just as any "other" dog. what is so special about a poodle, or chihuahua, or a beagle, etc. they are very good and loyal pets. these dogs are used as police K-9's, and as public service dogs. These dogs are very kind and loving when raised properly, and they will show that. These dogs reflect their owner, just as a child reflects their parent. They act how they are taught to. I think that is something special, that these dogs, despite all the people who hate them because of the name, can actually change their mind when they meet a pit that has not been teased, taunted, abused, etc. One that has been raised right.

I just found this link. I have owned 4 "pit bulls". I currently own 3. As far as this "research" goes, I would like to ask a question. How many of these pit bull attacks have been confirmed that they are indeed pit bulls? Now of those that have been confirmed, how many of these dogs have been mixed breeds. the reason I ask this is because I know for a fact that pit bulls are not "man eaters" or "beasts" as some people say. As far as these dogs being vicious, so you really think it is born in them, or do you think it has to do with other factors, such as irresponsible pet owners, and pit bull "haters". Many of these dogs that attack people are mistreated. Someone who doesn't know what they are doing will really screw up the good in these dogs. They are very loyal and loving dogs. They are like little children that are always striving for your approval and love, when they are raised and treated properly. Skeptic lance, you think this breed is so horrible. take a look at the pictures below. this is proof that these dogs are not "child killers" and below that is what people do to these dogs. I am putting a challenge to you and anyone else who would like to challenge me with proof of how "vicious" these dogs really are. Bring to the table any pictures, links, whatever of these dogs, and see if you can find information on the treatment of the dogs who attacked these people. if it says "pit bull attack" I want to see pictures of the actual dog. not just someone's hear say BS. yeah, this breed really kills kids... so tell me, these dogs do this to themselves, huh?? these dogs have the bad rep that they do because of stupid people. yes, these dogs can be trained to be vicious, or have dealt with extreme abuse or neglect, and those are probably the ones that are so "vicious". I did my research on these dogs before purchasing them. I love them, and they have not harmed me. They have not acted vicious unless they had a damn good reason to, like someone kicking them or hitting them while they were out on their chain and I was at work.