zorro

* Are you saying that people who believe in God are .... * but God does not exist. * therefor people believe in a nonexistant God. You insert a fault because people's beliefs are their footing even to Atheists. and a footing must be real to them even if only a dream.

Thank you john, .... I do need help often but logic isn't one of my weaknesses. The God is real debate has nothing to do with the OP. You seem to assert it to leverage with a Atheist's point of view and your whole debate collapses. In general, you argue with my ref than with me. This is debate and not a precise Chemistry quiz.. Good Luck.

Zorro: Gravity does generate most of the containment along with peripheral magnetisms connected as a surface tension shell layer. Containment is not the issue with balanced-fusion Photosphere operating at 2 atmospheres; it is the temperatures containment that is the challenge. That is correct. Science is as yet unsure what, if any, fusion goes on there. The interesting property is it insulation properties reducing temp from 15 million in the core down to 4,000 dK. At that temp, science / engineering on earth could contain the mash in a reactor at one to 2 atmospheres and use it; as well as the magneto effects, to generate clean energy SPECULATION: Further, I make the argument that there is some Si-Fe .... fusion ( I call <>fusion for simplicity ) taking place because energy is being absorbed in the fusion processes at iron and above elements, cooling the mash and preventing explosions.

ans: Aero Space Engineering (Rocket Scientist / Engineer ) ...... Flight regime in Space and little thru the Atmosphere. Aerounitical Engineering (Aircraft Engineering) ..... Flight regime in the Atmosphere only. Good planning. ......... I have both Aeros and Civil Engineering because of the instabilities in Aero industries.

Can fusion be contained with a <>fusion reactor??

Thank you . I guess

Lonesome; On'ry and Mean

I did. The topic of this thread is: People who believe in God are "Not" broken. ... People who believe in God must believe that He exists. Thus the debate I put forth is not God but what is "Broken" and who broke who.

Silly here is good and God exists. ..... /bye mate ....

The underlying premise of this threat is that godavg is a theist and that God exists. Logic needn't prove a given here. The topic relates to a madness supposed in folks who study "everything from nothing" and they are discriminated against by the mindless and careless as joeavg.

I cite Leibniz because he was the epitome of “Universal Genius” and a Theist. He invented calculus and its proper notation, He was a genius in multiple abstract fields and then drummed down by the inane English Court with the “Broken” tactics. His Logic is/was flawless and is a standard of today. Mine isn’t always. I use “broken” here in that it can and is done by sinister powers in these fields to gain undeserved prestige or a unwarranted Nobel prize. Social norms damage many who are gifted and Theists because they do not defend themselves at the bench of joeavg. This is why I think that this is a chill on the topic of this thread. I am taking the Theist view here as noted above. God does exist and shouldn't be treated as a chilled "Broken" .

I am defending the Theist view on this thread. I am saying that "Broken" is in the eye of the beholder. To joeavg, godavg is Broken or weird; when the opposite connotation is the case in a historical sense. That "Universal Genius" as Theists are misunderstood. joeavg cannot fathom advance thinking of God or the Infinite or other abstracts, followed by critical thinking of your own positions.

One thread is a old carryover to the other, confusing me. Take my post out of the old thread if you wish.

No No He was not broken at all. He was a " universal genius " and a Theist. http://history-computer.com/People/LeibnitzBio.html Leibnitz died on the 14th of November, 1716, his closing years enfeebled by disease, harassed by controversy, embittered by neglect; but to the last he preserved the indomitable energy and power of work to which is largely due the position he holds as, more perhaps than any one in modern times, a man of almost universal attainments and almost universal genius. At Hanover, Eckhart, his secretary, was his only mourner; "he was buried", says an eyewitness, "more like a robber than what he really was, the ornament of his country." In his latter years he became embroiled in the controversies surrounding the German and English courts which always stirred more spin than facts. His calculus and it's notation we still use today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_notation

Just to jump in .... sorry TOPIC: People who believe in God are not broken. Even though the topic has a sarcastic chill, the minds of those who believe in God (godavg ) is of some merit. … By broken in the since how the avg citizen view these things. To joeave, a God fearing person is crippled to do anything without the consideration of a God that does not exist. This in joeavg terms keeps godavg cleaved from interaction with society. This joeavg would call “Broken “. However from the standpoint of godave, believing in god is all consuming and societies norms are irrelevant. Godavg is eating lunch with God and spends this important time pondering life cycles, the infinite, the Cosmos, God’s purpose for mankind, philosophy and on and on. These ponderances are not in books, computers, Religion or TV and have yet to be resolved. That is what our brains do best that no other beings or robotics don’t even come close. To do this successfully, the brain of godave must step over the tipping point of experience, education and humanity and possibly into madness. Godavg in this world would go mad if God foundations and principals are there to catch him. ….. What is infinity ??? Even our largest computers and telescopes can’t find it. So we reach the tipping point that it is only a useless unreachable math concept. Godave then asks God for help with infinity and the reply is that He is before minus infinity and after infinity and also creates everything from nothing. With that, infinity is somehow bounded and the investigation must go forward. ….. Liebnitz / Newton invent the calculus and infinity is tamed forever. ….. It is said that Newton couldn’t safely operate the elevator and would be considered by joeavg as “Broken”. … so what. Gottfried Leibniz, 1647-1716 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Leibniz broken, I don't think so. God and theodicy views. Theodicy and optimism[edit source | editbeta] (Note that the word "optimism" here is used in the classic sense of optimal, not in the mood-related sense, as being positively hopeful.) The Theodicy[43] tries to justify the apparent imperfections of the world by claiming that it is optimal among all possible worlds. It must be the best possible and most balanced world, because it was created by an all powerful and all knowing God, who would not choose to create an imperfect world if a better world could be known to him or possible to exist. In effect, apparent flaws that can be identified in this world must exist in every possible world, because otherwise God would have chosen to create the world that excluded those flaws. Leibniz asserted that the truths of theology (religion) and philosophy cannot contradict each other, since reason and faith are both "gifts of God" so that their conflict would imply God contending against himself. The Theodicy is Leibniz's attempt to reconcile his personal philosophical system with his interpretation of the tenets of Christianity.[44] This project was motivated in part by Leibniz's belief, shared by many conservative philosophers and theologians during theEnlightenment, in the rational and enlightened nature of the Christian religion, at least as this was defined in tendentious comparisons between Christian and non Western or "primitive" religious practices and beliefs. It was also shaped by Leibniz's belief in the perfectibility of human nature (if humanity relied on correct philosophy and religion as a guide), and by his belief that metaphysical necessity must have a rational or logical foundation, even if this metaphysical causality seemed inexplicable in terms of physical necessity (the natural laws identified by science). Because reason and faith must be entirely reconciled, any tenet of faith which could not be defended by reason must be rejected. Leibniz then approached one of the central criticisms of Christian theism:[45] if God is all good, all wise and all powerful, how did evil come into the world? The answer (according to Leibniz) is that, while God is indeed unlimited in wisdom and power, his human creations, as creations, are limited both in their wisdom and in their will (power to act). This predisposes humans to false beliefs, wrong decisions and ineffective actions in the exercise of their free will. God does not arbitrarily inflict pain and suffering on humans; rather he permits both moral evil (sin) and physical evil (pain and suffering) as the necessary consequences of metaphysical evil (imperfection), as a means by which humans can identify and correct their erroneous decisions, and as a contrast to true good. Further, although human actions flow from prior causes that ultimately arise in God, and therefore are known as a metaphysical certainty to God, an individual's free will is exercised within natural laws, where choices are merely contingently necessary, to be decided in the event by a "wonderful spontaneity" that provides individuals an escape from rigorous predestination. Further information about this theodicy, including its supporters and detractors, can be found in the article Best of all possible worlds.

Mellow tonight

Just to jump in .... sorry TOPIC: People who believe in God are broke. Even though the topic has a sarcastic chill, the minds of those who believe in God (godavg ) is of some merit. … By broken in the since how the avg citizen view these things. To joeave, a God fearing person is crippled to do anything without the consideration of a God that does not exist. This in joeavg terms keeps godavg cleaved from interaction with society. This joeavg would call “Broken “. However from the standpoint of godave, believing in god is all consuming and societies norms are irrelevant. Godavg is eating lunch with God and spends this important time pondering life cycles, the infinite, the Cosmos, God’s purpose for mankind, philosophy and on and on. These ponderances are not in books, computers, Religion or TV and have yet to be resolved. That is what our brains do best that no other beings or robotics don’t even come close. To do this successfully, the brain of godave must step over the tipping point of experience, education and humanity and possibly into madness. Godavg in this world would go mad if God foundations and principals are there to catch him. ….. What is infinity ??? Even our largest computers and telescopes can’t find it. So we reach the tipping point that it is only a useless unreachable math concept. Godave then asks God for help with infinity and the reply is that He is before minus infinity and after infinity and also creates everything from nothing. With that, infinity is somehow bounded and the investigation must go forward. ….. Liebnitz / Newton invent the calculus and infinity is tamed forever. ….. It is said that Newton couldn’t safely operate the elevator and would be considered by joeavg as “Broken”. … so what. Gottfried Leibniz, 1647-1716 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Leibniz broken, I don't think so. God and theodicy views. Theodicy and optimism[edit source | editbeta] (Note that the word "optimism" here is used in the classic sense of optimal, not in the mood-related sense, as being positively hopeful.) The Theodicy[43] tries to justify the apparent imperfections of the world by claiming that it is optimal among all possible worlds. It must be the best possible and most balanced world, because it was created by an all powerful and all knowing God, who would not choose to create an imperfect world if a better world could be known to him or possible to exist. In effect, apparent flaws that can be identified in this world must exist in every possible world, because otherwise God would have chosen to create the world that excluded those flaws. Leibniz asserted that the truths of theology (religion) and philosophy cannot contradict each other, since reason and faith are both "gifts of God" so that their conflict would imply God contending against himself. The Theodicy is Leibniz's attempt to reconcile his personal philosophical system with his interpretation of the tenets of Christianity.[44] This project was motivated in part by Leibniz's belief, shared by many conservative philosophers and theologians during theEnlightenment, in the rational and enlightened nature of the Christian religion, at least as this was defined in tendentious comparisons between Christian and non Western or "primitive" religious practices and beliefs. It was also shaped by Leibniz's belief in the perfectibility of human nature (if humanity relied on correct philosophy and religion as a guide), and by his belief that metaphysical necessity must have a rational or logical foundation, even if this metaphysical causality seemed inexplicable in terms of physical necessity (the natural laws identified by science). Because reason and faith must be entirely reconciled, any tenet of faith which could not be defended by reason must be rejected. Leibniz then approached one of the central criticisms of Christian theism:[45] if God is all good, all wise and all powerful, how did evil come into the world? The answer (according to Leibniz) is that, while God is indeed unlimited in wisdom and power, his human creations, as creations, are limited both in their wisdom and in their will (power to act). This predisposes humans to false beliefs, wrong decisions and ineffective actions in the exercise of their free will. God does not arbitrarily inflict pain and suffering on humans; rather he permits both moral evil (sin) and physical evil (pain and suffering) as the necessary consequences of metaphysical evil (imperfection), as a means by which humans can identify and correct their erroneous decisions, and as a contrast to true good. Further, although human actions flow from prior causes that ultimately arise in God, and therefore are known as a metaphysical certainty to God, an individual's free will is exercised within natural laws, where choices are merely contingently necessary, to be decided in the event by a "wonderful spontaneity" that provides individuals an escape from rigorous predestination. Further information about this theodicy, including its supporters and detractors, can be found in the article Best of all possible worlds.

I REM dream about once a month depending how much mental stressers have built up. Stressers either mental, academic, physical, sexual ... that don't get resolved by day rationalizations are put in the dream basket for REM sleep dreams to resolve or relieve.

Infinitesimal increment.

. Other fields and dark matter. On to the eye cones / rods. The space is near negligible and not observable.

Much of the new stuff is politically oriented especially global warming trash science so I work with Pre GW and basic research. Don't count on Congress or Industry. Clean Fusion ( <> Iron ) is needed ASAP!!

No No. In your Saturn/apple example, you see light fields not space . Again , space is not observable. As in GPS, only time differences are observable . Distance and elevation are computed. Saturn's distance is a table look up and only observable from a reflected beam. Time is the observable again.

Space is not observable but time is. By definition Space is a volume minus it's Cosmos Boundaries . The boundaries are observable not the space between.

Daniel hello again: Space is not relevant to time. Space is a component between the elements and fields of the cosmos weather the element is a Galactic assemblage or the God particle. Space ends when all fields end then Nothing begins. btw: The "Big Bang Theory" is my favorite TV show and Sheldon (Jim Parsons) is superb.