Bjarne

Let us just say the Moon is 6500 km above the ecliptic, now you can see the moon from night side perspective of the Earth Right and this is what I calculated and we discussed last week. No I am not showing a top view, but a view from an observer seeing the Earth and Moon,(but not the Sun) - from the night side of the Earth I am not showing the direction of the force, but only the direction of the resulting force - and what time the resulting force is pointing mainly vertical or horizontal. In addition to the illustration above, - take a look at the one below also, - this shows the same point. By eclipse the resulting the force is pointing upwards (not 90º upwards) (but 0,0034º upwards) as already discussed The labeled degree (90º)is only to illustrator the direction / tilt of the 2 (moon and Sun) vector triangle responsible for of the resulting force, nothing else This image shows where the resulting force will point (on a central circle on the Sun) 8 hours before and after an eclipse. As you can see, - by eclipse, the resulting force is pointing upwards. Upwards means 90 degree relative to the ecliptic. It does not mean that the moon is 90ºdegree above the earth Also not that the force angle is 90º, - but only that now is the 0,0034º resulting force pointing upwards, nothing else than this, Which also mean that the upwards accelerating of the earth by eclipse is 50% faster (upwards) as 4 hours earlier, and 75% faster (upwards) as 8 hours earlier.

I have labeled the Moon , - Yes I have NOT shown the angle to the moon. I have shown the angle to the vector-forces-triangle acting of Earth I am not saying the resulting force it is larger than like 1º - but have calculated and shown much less in fact 0.0034º actually The Sun is behind the Earth, you cannot see it The Moon is (always) between the Earth and the Sun, - on the Sun side of the Earth to be excact, at this perspective This shows how the resulting force will point (on a central circle on the Sun)

Still you got it wrong Perspective; From the dark side of the Earth. The Sun is (invisible) behind the Earth. The Moon is 4000 km above the ecliptic (the angle to the Moon is less than 1°). The Moon is NOT at the angle 22,5° - 45° and 90° The Moon is between the Sun and the Earth The moon is always at the front side of the Earth, seen from this perspective. The red arrow illustrate how the orientation / angle of the force vector-triangle (between earth, -> moon and -> sun) is changing - relative to ecliptic. starting from mainly horizontal (22,5°) relative to ecliptic, 4 hours after reaching 45° (50% vertical / 50% horizontal) 8 hours later, reaching the maximum vertical orientation, and therefore maximum vertical pull in the Earth - (Eclipse). The same, but same but opposite order happens 8 hours after eclipse. No other constellation (where the moon also is 4000 km above the Earth) can compete with the magnitude / the upwards pull of the Earth that this configuration excerts on Earth (except lunar eclipse)

Correct, I do not want the maximum upwards acceleration of the Moon, - only certain constellation can trigger Allais Effect. One of the requirement is that the moon cannot be too high. I will later show you how much weaker the affect will be for each 1000 km the moon is too high above the ecliptic. What I want is the maximum upwards acceleration based on a constellation where the Moon is between 4 and 5000 km above the Earth. This will be perfect for Pendulum measurement of the anomaly. If the moon is higher than this the anomaly will be weaker, and if very much higher than 6500 km not possible to detec. However the best constellation for combined gravimeter measurement experiment is much more flexible If meassuremnet tak place near the artic area, the moon can be between 4000 and 6000 km above the ecliptic . Even when 7000 or 7500 km above, the effect can still be measured,, - but now the upwards pulls in the test body means that the exposed DFA is weaker If the Moon is much more than 8000 km above the ecliptic, the anomaly will be very weak, and sooner or later not possible to detect / distinguish . Yes this is most likely correct, but still we need to calculate the resulting force DFA is as I see it angular relative to the orbit of the Earth. This is based on all the analyses I did. I have considered this already and this is my conclusion.Off course you can may ask why ? - but let’s discuss that later. Its to early. Let’s just simplify this All what matter is the "DFA interaction axis" (DFAIA) Even at the north pole the DFAIA is just perfect but only for the mentioned gravimeter experiment, however the worse possible setup for a pendulum test. Pendulum, measurement are perfect near the 50º +/- 10º latitude. So let us not make this unnecessary more complicated and technical than it really is, - in order to let so many as possible understand what we are talking about. We can off course discuss from now on and the next 100 years whether latitude 40º is better than 60º or opposite or whether 50º is perfect in August etc......... . But the fact is we have only poor data so far. To solve this once and for all, - put 2 gravimeter near artic the 20 of August and we are all much wiser.

Yes I say so vertical upwards pull of the Earth as possible. However in a way where the moon NOT is above the test body, because the test body then not is free to follow DFA. It’s not a contradiction but 2 necessary requirements It have still not a lot to do with the angle to the Moon, but about how an outsider will see the angle of the force triangle (acting on Earth) relative to ecliptic This triangle will be 90º by solar eclipse, and therefore the upwards acceleration of the Earth will at that point be 100% of the possible, (based on a certain moon/earth constalation) 4 hours later the force triangle have tilted 45º , whereby the resulting upwards acceleration also have decreased 50% .. The following 4 hours the same will happen , now the angle is only 22,5º - 75% of the upwards acceleration is lost. The exact same, but opposite happens before solar eclipse. Its exactly such pattern Allais research reveals.

You keep saying as vertical as possible but also say that the effect goes away if the force is too big. So yet another contradiction from you. Vector addition does not support your claim that this vertical acceleration happens only in an eclipse, unless you are proposing some new theory of gravity. If the moon is 1º above the eclipse, it will exert the same vertical component of force regardless of its position relative to the sun. And that happens twice every orbit (near the new moon and near the full moon) You are predicting the effect will occur over at least 8 hours. The data do not agree with this prediction. I am just trying to explain you (and illustrate) that when the moon, sun and earth is aligned , the resulting upwards acceleration / force is so strong as it can be, - 4 hours later 50% of the vertical pull is gone. And that strong upwards pull in the Earth will only get back by solar and lunar eclipse.

Upwards = Ecliptic northpol

You misunderstood the illustration, - it shows that the Earth have moved - "to the right" relative to the Moon, Because the orbit speed of the earth (around the Sun) at this time is faster than the speed of the Moon. Therefore the resulting force vector (pulling the Earth upwards) has also changed.. This is the main reason to that the anomaly duration is total about 24 hours. - The upwards or downwards motion of the moon, play a secondary role, in that question. ( I have changed my mind few days ago, and also wrote it) This is the primary answer to why the Allais Effect only is true by (some) solar and lunar eclipse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W47Wa7onrIQ You misunderstood that too, - "C" is angle C, - (see the image below) to find the resulting upwards acceleration, you shall not use Sin*angle - but Vector Addition Calculation. - My calculation seems to be correct North relative to ecliptic The new discovery in this thread is that the upwards (or downwards) motion of the moon (discussed last week) play a secondary role. The primary point is now; - the fast orbit speed of the earth (relative to the Moon) right before solar eclipse that within 12 hours brings the Earth to a position where the resulting upwards acceleration is pointing so much vertical as possible. 4 hours before and 4 hours after will the resulting upwards force have lost 50% and about 8 hours later 75% of the upwards pull. 4 hours after max eclipse the resulting force / aacc begin to point more and more horizonal.. - Not because of the motion of the moon, but because the motion of the Earth. THIS is why only (some) solar and (some) lunar eclipse is able to expose DFA. No other constellation (except lunar eclipse) will come near that magnitude of upwards acceleration. 1 week after the eclipse, - now the resulting upwards force is alomust 0, - the force is now pointing more than 99% horizontal

If there were no solar (or lunar) eclipse, you would not get enought upwards acceleration of the Earth to expose DFA. Fig. A and B, - shows that four hours after a solar eclipse the Earth has moved 4000 km whereby the angle to the moon and therefore also the upwards acceleration has declined 50% compared to the solar eclipse position of Earth. Eight hours later angle and upwards acceleration is reduced to 25%. The same thing happens before solar eclipse. In addition to that the moon is also either declining or inclining during that period, this will also effect the anomaly and must also be taken into consideration. In short, - the resulting force will only point 100% upwards exact when the max solar eclipse take place, after that the angle of the resulting force will decline, - tilt ONLY by solar eclipse, you will have straight upwards resulting force. By (almost) all other similar configuration, the force will not be pointing upwards, - but much more vertical than upwards. This is why (some) solar (and lunar) eclipse are unique to expose DFA, and why many other configurations (where the moon also is about 4000km above the Earth) , - is bad. This image also illustrate the moon 4000 km above the Earth, but the resulting force is almost 100% horizontal, - not vertical , - and therefore such configuration is useless.

I have nothing to add to Marius Allais paper. I think based on the explained DFA all behaviors of different pendulums are very logical. If there still is anything specific, you believe still is a mystery you are welcome to mention that specific problem and I will do what I can to answer you. My mission is mainly to show you: the direction of the responsible force / acceleration the estimated magnitude based on today’s data how to measure the the total magnitude of the force / acceleration (given that it less than 55μGal) the duration of the anomaly how fast the anomaly inclines and declines how to measure it without being blindfolded the most effective experiment of measurement where measurement not should be taken why the (full force of) Allais Effect only can be detected by (some) solar , and (some) lunar eclipse, - notice (some) Lunar Eclipse will give same result as (some) Solar eclipse, (if the angle to the moon is the same) - except the force is just 0.88% weaker compared to solar eclipse why several times gravity measurement failed to detect the Allais Effect while pendulums did not.. The test body inside a relative gravimeter is connected to the gravimeter and therefore also connected to the Earth; therefore, such test body is never free to measure an acceleration different from the acceleration frame of the Earth. The best position to measure DFA is exactly opposite DAF, with mean Artic, - and this is the place where a relative instrument included the test body inside, (almost) 100% follows the upward acceleration of Earth. – The exact opposite ( can by the correct Earth Moon configuration) be the case with free fall test body inside an absolute gravimeter (in Artic). There are relative few absolute gravimeter in the world, these are very expensive (and heavy) .

A relative gravimeter was used in China, and the wrong place, therefore the anomaly was so weak

Please read this thread from the beginning, few post is about how to calculate the acceleration, it take less than 10 minutes to check the calculation if you know how to do it, if you are used to it maybe only 2 minutes. Just use a calculator. All the data to enter is in the image. I am sure that these are correct. You are welcome to check

All you need is upwards acceleration of the Earth, and not of the test body It is there

For exsample 0.0000005m/s^2 I do not agree, it’s too early to make a model, better make the model, so soon you have best possible data, - these data can be available within 2 month. Instead of wasting time on something you already know not will be perfect based on the bad data we have now. - For example a model will never be able to predict the magnitude of DFA. But if the combine gravity measurement is done first, then and first then you have perfect data to predict a lot more for the future based on a model. Why make a model today, and scrap it after 8 weeks ? I have predicted that a relative gravimeter and an absolute gravimeter will measure a deviation between, - 35μgal and 50μgal, - if the measurement take place by the correct solar eclipse, and is place the right place. I have also predicted that this will come as a huge surprise, no one will expect that. This will show that we must have a significant acceleration pointing south. _ I have to correct the anomaly can only be measure within a range of 20 to 24 hours. After that is done, I have also predicted that we can really forget everything about pendulums, - and model based on pendulum, simply because after modern measurement is done for the first time , old methods is immediately old fashioned. I don't understand how you have come to that conclution ?? If there were no solar (or lunar) eclipse, you would not get enought upwards acceleration of the Earth to expose DFA. Fig. A and B, - shows that four hours after a solar eclipse the Earth has moved 4000 km whereby the angle to the moon and therefore also the upwards acceleration has declined 50% compared to the solar eclipse position of Earth. Eight hours later angle and upwards acceleration is reduced to 25%. The same thing happens before solar eclipse. In addition to that the moon is also either declining or inclining during that period, this will also effect the anomaly and must also be taken into consideration. In short, - the resulting force will only point 100% upwards exact when the max solar eclipse take place, after that the angle of the resulting force will decline, - tilt ONLY by solar eclipse, you will have straight upwards resulting force. By (almost) all other similar configuration, the force will not be pointing upwards, - but much more vertical than upwards. This is why (some) solar (and lunar) eclipse are unique to expose DFA, and why many other configurations (where the moon also is about 4000km above the Earth) , - is bad. This image also illustrate the moon 4000 km above the Earth, but the resulting force is almost 100% horizontal, - not vertical , - and therefore such configuration is useless.

Calculation of the force it is also mentioned in the article.. Ref [11] + [12] I can look up the page number of REF (11) if you want and if you have access to the book Maurice Allais have calculated the unknown force to be at the minus 7 scale, I agree to that this is the correct scale (as you can see), - but (to my opinion) it is simply too early to predict the full force of DFA magnitude. I mean whether is on the, middle or high end of that scale. ( I 90% sure it’s on the middle) If you want to have all this 100% accurate, - you have to take serveral factors into consideration... the swing direction of the pendulum, and whether the operator was compensating for the rotaion of Earth the position of the test body the tilt of the Earth (relative to the DFA / the interaction axis) the rotation of earth This is not a piece of cake. I have chosen just to accept that YES we have (only) a rough model, based on controversial measurement devices. From now on better, use time on preparations for using modern measurement methods. Everyone will immediately understand whether prediction and reality are consistent. Even if I would use a lot of time on trying to extract a little more precise model, - I am not sure that would impress anyone. Predicted significant gravity experiment that can be repeated and predicted repeatedly, is the only way. So as I see it further refining the magnitude, is really waste of time. Still the Allais effect will be considered as controversial / speculation, and will be ignored. You also have 2 gravitational anomalies, [9] [10] but relative weak. However, one is on the minus 7 scale. These only reveal sudden change, - not the underlying the long-term (20 hours) influence. The reason is that it is (complicated /impossible) (now today) to distinguish what was possible (long term) calibration problems, possible ocean tide influence, (no data) and in fact what was caused by “unknown cause” For example a team measuring on Greenland have sometimes a 10μgal “unknown factor” that cannot be addressed. In addition to that, bad position and wrong type of instruments also play a major role. You can impossible get that right. To my opinion, there are so many “challenges” and unknown factors by analyzing the available data. Better accept, (as I do), that we now only have a very rough model, and that the task is, fastest possible 1.) to use the best possible measurement setup the theory now have uncovered – 2.) The perfect place - 3). With open eyes fine-tune measure what we are up against. 4.) Predict and repeat that setup repeatedly, until there are no more doubt and no more questions. A combined gravimeter setup the 20 of August can within 24 hours confirm or reject whether this theory is correct. By repeating we can do minor fine-tune during the years to come. [9] D. C. Mishra and M. B. S. Vyaghreswara Rao, “Temporal variation in gravity field during solar eclipse on 24 October 1995,” Current Science, vol. 72, no. 11, pp. 782–783, Jun. 1997. [10] Yang, Xin-She; Wang, Qian-Shen Gravity Anomaly During the Mohe Total Solar Eclipse and New Constraint on Gravitational Shielding Parameter http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002Ap&SS.282..245Y [11] Maurice Allais L'ANISOTROPIE DE L'ESPACE (page 206-212) http://ether-wind.narod.ru/Allais_1997/Allais_1997_1.pdf [12] Jean-Bernard DELOLY- 22/04/2016 “Continuation given to Maurice Allais's experimental works State of the situation (2015)” http://www.fondationmauriceallais.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/situation_allais_2015-trad.pdf

1.) There is no way to predict the full range of that effect, based on pendulum measurement, - the earth is simply too small. Only measurement by the mentioned gravimeter setup can certainly solve that question. To my opiun the DFA peaks by 30 to 40μgal, but it would not surpise me if it is peaking at 50μgal, we have no way knowing that without using the mentioned new experiment. 2.) OK I see, thanks a lot for your time, now it much better fits to my expectation as well.

1. When the Moon is more than 6500 km (radius) above ecliptic, the moon will also accelerate the test body upwards,(depending on where the test body is off course) - finally to such extend that the test body will not feel any exposed DFA. Almost all Allais Effect anomalies are measured by pendulums. These are very limit and bad instruments to use, mainly because; - to have a significant result the DFA interaction axis and the DFAS axis must be more or less parallel. If this not is the case (because measurement take place too much north) – the results will be weaker, simply because the upwards acceleration of the Earth also will affect the test body (indirectly). In short , pendulum will not reveal the full range of exposed DFA when used too much north. So we can only guess how much stronger than 20 to 30μGal, this anomaly really is. It can very well be 50μGal. Combined relative / absolute gravimeter measurement very much north, - can meassure a much larger range and therefore meassure the influence of all exposed DFA / moon combinations, regardless whether the moon is 25 km or 6500 km above the ecliptic. 2. Allais effect is about exposing DFA. So long everything is accelerating towards the same direction DFA cannot be measured. To be able to meassure DFA there is only 1 option, and this is A. The Earth must accelerate opposite DFA (the moon must prevent the Earth to follow DFA) B. BUT the moon must not prevent the test body to follow DFA .. I would be happy if you would tell why the calculated, - upwards acceleration of the Earth - is wrong..

1. If you see the sun at angles other than 0º with respect to the earth (in one of the 2 last images) it was not intentional, - still the points in these images such be clear. 2. How to calculate the upwards acceleration is shown by the illustration below, the essence is, at which atitude level (position of the Moon) will the Allais effect reach maximum. Based on the available data it can be between 4000 and 6500 km above the Sun / Earth axis, which correspond to between 20 and 45μGal..

Yes I wrote moon, instead of Sun, its fixed

1. Noted 2. Give me some time, now I have to learn 2D trigonometry it is easy, - 3D is more difficult; in the meantime look at this…. Only by (some) solar eclipse, the upwards resulting acceleration of Earth is (can be) 100%. In the configuration above you can see that 4 hours after eclipse the Earth have moved 4000 km away from the moon, (towards right) and the upwards acceleration is now at image A only 45° (only 50% compared to solar eclipse) 8 hours later the upwards acceleration is reduced to 25% The same thing happens before solar eclipse. In addition to that also the upwards or downwards motion of the moon must off course also be taken into consideration, - not only the change of angle du to the orbit motion of the the Earth / Moon 3.However the angle off acceleration ( the resulting acceleration) is almost horizontal, the acceleration is therefore useless. This is what I demonstrated in the image in the previous post (above). 4. Right, but first at all consider what I wrote above, furthermore if the moon is 3° above the Earth, the moon is also about 2.5° above the test body, which then is not free to interact with DFA 5. Only combined absolute and relative acceleration due to gravity measurement, - near the 60° and 70° latitude, - by (some) solar (or some lunar eclipse) is able to fine-tune the magnitude. This can take several years, after such measurement have started. Until then we have to live with estimations, based on how much upwards pull the moon have to excert in order to have the maximum Allais Effect anomaly. Pioneers in this area of science have only reach the foot of the mountain so fare.

The calculation shown earlier today, - (based on a Earth angle 0,6°) shows that the resulting effect according to a eclipse example was 0.0034° ((this correspond to that the resulting force is "hitting" the Sun about 8000 km higher due to the pull of the Moon) - see ref A in the image below. The resulting force, - if the moon not is aligned with the sun and earth, - but pull the earth upwards from a 90° angle, - is "almost" the same, difference is 0.33° - less than 1 degree, and not enough to to accelerate the Earth significant upwards, in a way that can compared with the solar eclipse example I gave you. The resulting force will hit, - ref B in the image, this is much lower than the Moon (4000 km above) and also lower as the 8000 km mentioned above that apply for ref A. The 3 D image illustrate that by eclipse the resulting force is hitting the Sun 0.0034° higher as the force only from the sun is capable to. The new 90° angle example shows an insignificant resulting - altitude gain. Which mean the higher moon, is really not accelerating the Earth upwards at this point. Correct me when I am wrong..

1.) Will be done, - and no cherry-picking, all Allais effect I could get my hand on are analyzed. 2. Remember that the upwards pull from the Moon can also be too strong , - if the Moon pull the test body too much upwards, the test body is not free to interact with DFA. and remember half of the year the moon is simply too low, and prevent the Earth from upwards acceleration, This mean that in the end of the day there are in fact only few (OK) options (elliptic crossings) left each year, and to my opinion the best option is - some - solar eclipse, - not all. I will make it clear to Allais researcher (and I will consider when I will arrange gravity measurements) - that there are more options than only eclipse, - but as I see it anomalies will be weaker compared to solar eclipse anomalies.

1.) So fare only few gravimeters meassuremnet have measure acceleration ""directly"", - it is difficult to convert the swing of a pendulum to DFA-acceleration, because it depend on many factors, for example how is the DFA interaction axis, - how is the swing angle of the pendulum relative to DFA , - where is the perfect position to measure exactly, - and a lot more. Right now, we have only rough estimations etc.... The suggested gravimeter measurement , will be a much more powerful tool, that will lead to much more direct and much more precis data.. 2.) The way a pendulum is affected depend on the swing angle of the pendulum relative to DFA. This image illustrates (a huge, exaggerated) pendulum swinging on Earth. The green line illustrates the expected path that a pendulum will follow the entire time. The red line illustrates the (unexpected) path the pendulum follows when DFA is exposed. Figure 4, - If the pendulum swings exactly 90° east-west (between A and B) relative to the DFA axis, an insignificant anomaly will occur. Allais researchers must pay attention to that Figure 5, - If the swing angle relative to dark flow is a little larger or smaller than 90°, for example as illustrated by fig.5 (motion from C to D), remarkable anomalies can be detected. Due to the pull of DFA, the path that the pendulum follows will (in this case) rotate anticlockwise, and the pendulum will increase its kinetic energy. Figure 6, - When the pendulum moves from D to E the upwards acceleration of Earth will also force the pendulum to rotate as well as continue to increase its kinetic energy. However, when following the path from E to F, the opposite influence is expected 3. Eclipse are not necessary, but just the best option. Both the Moon and the Sun periodically accelerate the Earth upwards and downwards relative to DFA. Periodically opposite influences more or less cancel each other out, and periodically (especially by - some - solar eclipse) the force from the Moon and the Sun reaches maximum unification and the Allais Effect is significant easy to measure. But not only be eclipse the Allais Effects must be possible to measure. Sometimes right before , - and sometimes right after the Moon is crossing the ecliptic, (and the Earth is just a little above the ecliptic), the Allais effect must also be possible to measure, - although the effect must be expected to be (much) weaker compared to eclipse measurements. Its too early so say a lot more exact, - the best thing to do not is combine relative and absolute gravity measurement near the 60°and 70°latitude, especially by solar eclipe. – Not important whether it take place in N- Scandinavia, Alaska N-Russia , Island, - Important is just to take these 3 days, /by solar eclipse, - to get the best possible anomaly perspective. Already such deviation is known (Greenland 10μGal- cause unknown) – So soon the right experiment is done, we will see at least 30μGal, and who know maybe 50μGal deviation.