scourge

Heh, Yeah i guess things do get derailed quite easily in the religious forum. Pretty easy to lose track, You could end up one second talking about how you see humanism being promoted worldwide (Not saying it is just i.e.) and the next second your talking about what the structure of an atom has to do with religious validity. Now ill just shut up and leave you guys to your arguments

The reference isn't to god himself but to evil/satan.

Sorry i about that i was actually unclear, By that i meant quality of life.

For my case? Or for christianity as a whole?

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

With a condescending assumption to match it.

Me too. You are encouraged to do good deeds out of pure love for the person rather than going to heaven in mind when you die. But of course alot of the time that does not happen and people cant help but look at that.

Point taken and accepted, But to a believing theist your reason for doing so is of no matter to them because this life is most insignifigant. Same to an atheist, why would the thought of eternal life intrigue someone that dosn't believe in life after death in the first place? Which is another theist/atheist dig.

I have acknowledged that i don't have the evidence that you want me to give you. The issue with it is that you run off of physical evidence that you can see, feel and touch while being sure your not hallucinating. We operate on something we hold "higher" than direct physical evidence. I have no case against atheism itself. Nor a case i could present to an atheist as a case for theism. Only my account. But this is insignifigant. So no argument between the two is possible. Again, the assumption that i am trying to insult you and say that you never gave us a look.

Maybe... But thats just an assumption they may not. You haven't been inside my head and you have not been in theirs. Besides the fact itself you get what you give does not act as evidence. Only what is contained within it. But that is just as useless to atheist because they dont see things that way because they havent given the faith to.

Perhaps so. But you do not always need an eye-witness account for it to be completely reliable. I guess ill look up on it and see what i find.

How does what you get in return when you give more faith also evidence other religions? The fact that you get what you give is of course not "solid" evidence to any of the parties. Only if it shows true in that religion and what it is you realize and understand. But on the other side this acts as nothing to atheist. They can ponder the truthful nature of the statement itself.

Well i am not only arguing to benefit you in the next but give you satisfaction in this one as well. Not as an insult to your kind nature or anything like that but i must bring up the question, Are you doing so to benefit ME in this life or are you doing it to benefit YOU? Not trying to question you as a good person i just want you to examine it. Then tell me, ME, YOU? Or OTHERS?

It is clear that we were given the option to choose whether to follow him or to not. Fundamentalism was just huge misunderstanding of religion. If you don't want to hear it then you wont. If you don't want to believe than don't. We were not given this choice so that we could take control of those that chose the other option and FORCE them to make our same decision. If we weren't supposed to have the choice then we wouldn't have it. As long as we understand that fundamentalism shouldn't happen again.

I already said that this does not act as evidence for you. I already said that if they dont want to hear it than they wont hear it.

I have seen that you have said that you have been involved with our religion. Had you payed any attention at all to previous post you would see that i said i am not trying to insult or make you look inferior. I also previously stated that for those that believe no evidence is needed and for those that do not none is possible? That statement does not say that it only strengthens the belief of those that already have faith? Does the idea that you get what you give offend you? I think (without watching the videos yet, After i watch them you may mean other than what the question before them says) that atheism is more pressured than religion anymore. It would be easier on your social life if you just represented yourself as an atheist and even easier to actually be one and hide nothing. In my part of the country atheism is sweeping through the new generation. Saying your religious is more and more damaging to your social life.

After a debate i see is getting nowhere i always agree to disagree. If i haven't already i will do so now. The reason theist (Or Christians at least they come to atheist because of the will to try and bring salvation to all they can. If they don't want to hear it than they wont. Yes i agree that a lot of the time that you see people manipulating people for personal gain. That does not represent us that are true to it, we give our best to help and aid people when we can. You have no reason to come to theist, you have no salvation to offer them. But reguardless like every group you have your crazy people that DO come to religious forums to advertise atheism. Keep in mind this isn't an atheism forum its a science forum. I didn't come here to advertise Christianity I came here to discuss science and this was a subject i stumbled upon.

I remember a dream i had the other night where i even went past death, Afterwards my family could still hear me but not see me. As a spirit i roamed alone until another person that was closer to the family died as well. But i don't believe he was as inside of the direct family as i was just a cousin or known friend. We could then see each other again and roamed together. I was not so panicked after i had died but i do not remember moment of death so well. I believe i had an increased heart rate for sure. I could give more details if necessary. I was told that if you actually DIE in a dream you die in your sleep due to heart attack or something like that.

It is to a non-believer, But as i have said. To us the evidence is clear, Why? Maybe i should check up on that or find something on that i dont really know yet. But i am not saying this is compelling evidence to convert you to christianity. I have just happened to stumble upon it and am satisfied with it. With bigger faith comes the more evidence to show you. You get what you give.

As you would say, That is a forward assertion can you show evidence of such? Without my statement contradicting that?

Because that lowers the relevance of the statement whatsoever. I guess a previous statement i have seen gets at it a little better but dosnt exactly explain it. For those with faith no evidence is needed. For those without no evidence is possible. I guess this touches the idea a little bit. But it isnt complete. Oh yes and by the way thank you imfaatal for not going straight to offense and being rude and secretly attacking me for my statement while making it appear like your attacking the statement. But anyway back to my point. You see it once you truely have faith. But it is only possible through gaining it and realistically having it. But by this point your faith is strong enough to where you do not really need evidence anyway. But besides that i believe you may also need a certain type of comprehension. Not calling atheist idiots or inferior. I am saying that to realize the evidence you have to have faith. Here is what i DO NOT mean to make things clear. God created the world and everything in it including the first human beings. If you are not a christian you do not believe that therefore its not evidence for you. If you are christian then you do believe it and its evidence for you. This IS NOT what i mean by this statement. I mean a different comprehension that is achived through it.

I disagree that human logic can be applied to god. Though we were created in the image of god (In the view of christians ill say before i face a million foward assertion attacks.) this is just in physical looks. Our mechanics are unlikely to be the same at all. What you think a god should idealy be like is not important. Whatever it is that is done by him is for good reason, In this area of the arguement where we are assuming that god is real in this scenario, You just have to trust that what he does is right and for the better. God would be much, much, much, much more intelligent than us. We likely will not know the reason until it is all done. While this is not the exact same instance here is what it is kind of comparable to. As a very little kid going through school you wish that you did not have to go to school and sometimes wonder why your parents send you to school. Sometimes you think that she sends you to school because she hates you or she wants you to be miserable. Then you grow up and realize that it was only for the better that she sent you to school and you realize back then that your comprehension and understanding was not mature enough to realize why she was sending you to school. As a young child your mother was much more intelligent than you were. Only in this case god will be much more intelligent than you on much larger scales and in this case he always will be. Only you will begin to understand later in life or maybe not until after death you will begin to gain some understanding of why this happened. But as of now most if none of us can understand why he allows this to happen.

You are looking at it incorrectly, You do not believe so that you can ask for things. Or keep bad things from happening to you are someone else. Its deeper than that. And whether its a "mental disease" or not i do not care. Its sweeter and better than being "sobered up" could ever give me. Considering the fact that i am taken over by a mental disease even as a possibility. If it is please.. Don't cure me.. Please..

That shows how little you know about religion and that you dont understand us at all. You don't worship god so that he can help you pay off your mortgage and/or make your enemies fail. You are taking quite a shallow view on our beliefs.

The difference here is that all those things are things that supposedly live in THIS universe. And they do not explain why the universe exist. This is not a rational comparision. They do not represent the same thing at all. All these things are things that live in the world and are visible. There is likely more than one reason why the tooth fairy and santa claus dont bring up debates on their existance. It just didnt "Happen" to be God that all these debates are centered around. There is a reason why people believe in god and not the tooth fairy. Oh wow didnt realize i was commenting on such an old post lol he he.