beecee

Q: Why don't blind people bungi jump? A: Because it scares the fuck out of the Dog!

Thanks.

Still around... 79 in July but still doing OK...love a VB or two or three... Yes, I was pretty convinced that there was one or two making a mockery of it, considering I was continually supporting the scientific view and research and obviously the lack of evidence at this time. That view is still supported and actually re-enforced...but only a small reason for my absence, as I have been in Fiji also for extended stays.

110% certainty they should be banned!!!! at least according to existing IOC and other sporting bodies laws.

We did not see any light from any exploding star from 13.7 billion years ago. There was no explosion as such, simply an evolution of space and time (as we know them) an inflationary process and expansion. At that stage around t+10-45th seconds, the four forces were combined as one, and then as expansion took hold, temperatures and pressures dropped, the "superforce" started to decouple, gravity first. As temperatures and pressures dropped and the superforce separated, phase transions and false vacuums were formed and the excesses of energy went into creating our first fundamental particles. At 3 minutes post BB, our protons and neutrons formed and first atomic nucleii. It took another 383000 years for conditions to be such that electrons were captured and our first light elements took hold. The age is being revised and modified as needed, and according to data from more state of the art probes, along with other cosmological figures.

How about if he is actually protecting the rights of the other citizens that don't own a gun, and are not as obsessed with them. They have an over-riding right to expect to walk the streets, go to school, and not be assaulted by some fucking nut, who can walk into a store and buy a gun willy nilly I suggest.

How best to stop excluding trans kids from sports? Good question! Nothing should stop anyone, including transgenders from playing the sport that they wish. As long as of course they do not physically or biologically create an advantage for themselves, and disadvantage anyone else and follow the guide lines of the sporting administrators and scientific and medical advice to that end. The problem exists though, that scientific and medical knowledge is far from certain in this subject. Perhaps do get a clearer picture, we may need to wait a decade or two. Thankfully, though, the aspect of transgenders is relatively rare, and the percentage of those that want to take part in a sport, obviously even rarer. In summing, striking the balance of fairness and not having an advantage in sport, and the rights of the transgender athletes, will not be easy, and pleasing every one, particularly male and female competitors, will be even harder. My thoughts actually go back to the covid 19 hey days, and the screams and whinging from anti vaxxers losing their rights with mandatory vaccinations, against the rights of all other citizens to remain healthy and safe by the best means possible. I see a somewhat parallel there. As was linked to and showed as fact in the other similar thread, boys and girls play both rugby codes together up until the age of 10, where under the existing rules, following medical and scientific advice, they then separate and segregate according to sex under scientific medical advice, particularly in body contact sports. The gender neutral and selection by size and ability claim is a furphy, particularly when obtaining late teens and adulthood, and as explained and reasoned in the other similar thread. Probably the best outcome as far as I can see. Under scientific and medical advice of course, although this as yet has not not fully decided and is somewhat limited.

😁 Out of sight, out of mind! Actually the two on the left are our channel 9 sport commentators, Danika Mason and Yvonne Sampson......

Generally of course, and as you well know, any preconception/assumption is well founded on observational and biological evidence, that yes in most all circumstances, a women generally speaking, will not beat a man in certain sports, as has been shown with many links. Of course though if I got on a tennis court with Ash Barty or Serena or Venus, they would obviously smack my arse in quick time. Noting of course, as per a previous link, both Serena and Venus, couldn't even come close to beating a male professional tennis player ranked 203 in the world. The same obviously applies with many other sports. Men and women, are different, and I for one, appreciate that fact. 😁😋😍😛

In the meantime, the greatest sporting rivalry on the planet on June 8th at Sydney's Stadium Australia will take place. The two State of Origin teams have been selected and are now in camp undergoing medical and fitness tests. Of course the NRLW also have their own State of Origin sides that compete against each other. The Women's State of Origin side: Lucky Coach!!! 😁 Got my VB, peanuts, and position in my Lazy Boy rocker ready and waiting!!!!😉

It's Turtles all the way down.

I certainly agree with the basis of the source, but you would also know that in all my posts, I have always used the words generally. or mostly. You already know that I suggest. But your desire for one-upmanship is noted. "The UK Equality Act makes quite clear that you can exclude on the basis of sex where sex is important for safety." Age shall not weary them. Particularly in repeating facts. Along with all the facts presented supporting sex segregation in certain sports, the transgender issue remains a problem, mainly due to the inconclusive scientific evidence that we know so far. The problem here so far is that certain individuals, that are attempting to red card me,🥱 (particularly with compulsory sex segregation) are failing miserably according to the scientific evidence, and essentially should be encouraged to debate the facts as presented and not the person, showing again that sometimes standing up to extreme PC will draw the wrath of some. 😏 With the transgender aspect, and transgender participation in sport, the reasons why this is so controversial is that there isn't any ideal scientifically supported scenario of keeping everyone completely happy, which has been pointed out in a few links, along of course with the rarity of the situation. The reality of the situation as highlighted in some of the links, is that you cannot have total fairness in all situations by lowering testosterone, and you need to show that fairness is not only done, but be seen to be done. That sadly due to the inconclusive nature of the subject and lack of total scientific verification, may see the need to exclude some transgenders or accept the undesirable and spoiling unfairness aspect by including transgenders.....particularly trans women.

The problem as I see it is that certain individuals, hear that word "discrimination" and automatically, without too much thinking, see evil intent and immediatley rail against it. It could be described as PC gone mad. The facts are that in sport at least, it is justifiable, and important in many sports, particularly as has already been supported, and proved, body contact sports such as both rugby codes of football. The following is as it should be...... "The UK Equality Act makes quite clear that you can exclude on the basis of sex where sex is important for safety." Then we have that rare and difficult aspect with regards to transgenders. For that I'll gladly pass onto the experts, sport executives and medical scientists to fathom and solve.... Sorry Stringy, wrong and misplaced again. I have always said that generally speaking, men are stronger, then women. You are quoting from an article that I gave. ps: And no where in the article did they say "all" Your gross misinterpretations and bias are getting old. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/21/coe-warns-transgender-athletes-pose-risk-to-integrity-of-womens-sport Coe warns transgender athletes pose risk to integrity of women’s sport World Athletics president calls for new rules across all sports Warning comes after Lia Thomas wins NCAA swimming title: Sebastian Coe has claimed that the “integrity and future of women’s sport” is at stake after the American swimmer Lia Thomas became the first transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming championship last week. The World Athletics president also called on the International Olympic Committee to introduce regulations that can be applied across every sport and insisted that “gender cannot trump biology”. Thomas, who swam for the University of Pennsylvania men’s team for three seasons before starting hormone replacement therapy in 2019, made history by winning the 500-yard freestyle in Atlanta but has faced protests since starting to compete as a woman. Asked how important the challenge of transgender women is in athletics, Lord Coe said: “I think that the integrity of women’s sport – if we don’t get this right – and actually the future of women’s sport, is very fragile.” more......................

Will never change the fact that certain sports will always be segregated according to sex, and with the blessing of the majority of sports people and spectators. As already detailed. Yes rare circumstances and secondly, not fully understood and real doubts on the science available. from the link.................. In conclusion, I make the following case: trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports because it results in a regression in women’s equality and they won’t be able to showcase their skills and style. Additionally, in certain combat sports like MMA where punches, kicks, and jabs are thrown, numerous women have been seriously injured when fighting transgender athletes. It is for these reasons and those mentioned above that women’s sports should remain exclusive to biological women. extract: This is also the case when it comes to women. Sports give women the opportunity to show the world that they too can be extremely athletic and should be given the chance to show off their skills without having to compete against men. Because science has concluded time and time again that men are biologically stronger than women in terms of absolute strength, women need their own category of sports so that they can compete fairly with one another.

I see that as decent morals that have been learnt and handed down rather then philosophy, but then again, as TheVat has remarked, I aint a philopher, nor have I studied philosophy. 🥱

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2018/dec/10/calls-athletes-compete-group-resisted Why calls for athletes to compete as a homogenised group should be resisted: In response to the impact of transgender athletes some advocate the sexes competing together, a move others argue would banish women from top-level sport: Can you imagine sport without separate men’s and women’s categories? A world where Serena Williams never got a sniff of 23 majors – not with Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic in her path – and the golden British women’s hockey team of Rio 2016 never even took to the field. It sounds like a dystopian nightmare. In fact it was an idea mooted on Radio 4 last week in a Woman’s Hour discussion about whether transgender women should play women’s sports. extract: But the biological gap is real – and David Epstein’s brilliant book, The Sports Gene, has numerous examples that show it. As Epstein notes, up until the age of 10, girls and boys have similar bodies and their top running speeds are almost identical. But after puberty, “when boys are literally on natural steroids”, men’s and women’s records “are no longer in the same athletic universe”. extract: Under International Olympic Committee rules, athletes do not need “surgical anatomical changes” to compete as a woman. Rather they need to demonstrate their testosterone level in serum has been under 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months. Testosterone, as the renowned sports scientist Ross Tucker explains, is the key determinate for the IOC. “It means you could have entirely male physiology and anatomy, except for the testosterone levels, then declare that your gender identity is female, and compete in women’s sport.” The IOC’s policy is an attempt to ensure trans athletes are not excluded from the opportunity to participate in sport – while also trying to ensure fair competition for women. It is an uneasy juggling act, given the strong voices on all sides. The big question, of course, is how much of an advantage trans athletes might have when they transition. Science does not offer a full answer. However, pioneering research from Joanna Harper, a medical physicist who was born male and later transitioned, shows that when runners take hormone-suppressing medication they end up with similar gender-graded performance standards as women as they did as men. Therefore fears that trans runners or cyclists could have a large advantage in endurance sports appear unfounded. But it is not that simple. “People say transgender women have advantages in sports and, you know what, it’s true,” says Harper, who advises the IOC and is recognised as a leader in the field. “Even after transition, on average, transgender women are taller, bigger and stronger than cisgender or ‘normal’ women. However, transgender women have disadvantages too. When they transition they have substantial loss of muscle strength and aerobic capacity, which causes them problems with agility, quickness and stamina.” Transitioned athletes “undoubtedly benefit” from the muscle memory of years of strength training – according to Harper – although more research is needed to find out by how much. That is not easy given the lack of funding and the need for exercise physiologists at universities to work with endocrinologists at gender clinics. more......................... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Three points so far made in this thread...... (1) Sex segregation as per the status quo in certain sports has been determined to be the only fair and equitable system particularly for women. (2) The subject of transgenders competing in sports, is a problem that as yet, science and medicine has not resolved. (3) The rarity of transition/transgender athletes, along with the still uncertain application of science and medicine, points to a debatable issue with no certainty either way and voices on either side. Appears I have been on the right track mostly since this thread started. 😉 Yeah I know, I'm blowing my own trumpet!!!!!😜

It seems the main discussion point in this debate, (the irrefutable case for sex segregation in certain sports) has now without doubt been resolved in the affirmative, going on the number of red negs I have received!! 😁 Seems I have certainly twisted a few livers!!😁 Actually a no brainer. Onto the thread title...... https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/sex-matters-why-transgender-athletes-must-not-compete-against-biological-females/ Sex Matters: Why Transgender Athletes Must Not Compete Against Biological Females: extract: If Congress and courts had forbidden sex-segregated sports, the way race and religious segregation is prohibited, I would have qualified for my high school team, but I’d never have been the Hall of Famer that I became. I doubt I’d have competed past high school. Now imagine if all schools were only responsible for sponsoring one sports team and they put their best students — regardless of gender — on that team. How many girls and women would make it? For sure, millions of girls and women would lose out on the educational experience that participation in sports provides. An experience which is also linked to economic success and life-long health. Trans women should compete with biological women, so long as they can demonstrate that they have lost their sex-linked, male-puberty advantage prior to competition in the women’s category. Lia Thomas cannot make that demonstration. While she has apparently been complying with NCAA rules requiring hormone therapy for over 2 ½ years now, she still competes with an unfair advantage. How do we know Lia Thomas’ performances aren’t fair? The average differential in the men’s and women’s ‘A’ standard times for NCAA championship qualification is 11.41%; meaning the women’s times are 11%+ slower than the men’s qualification times. About the same differential occurs if you’re looking at almost any group of swimming records or qualification times between men and women, including regional or USA Swimming qualification times, American records, world records, NCAA records. The gaps between men and women are generally larger in the sprints than they are in the long-distance events. So, how big is that 11% advantage in swimming times for male swimmers? Enormous. To put it in perspective, Olympic superstar Michael Phelps held just a .08% of an advantage over his U.S. teammate and rival Ian Crocker in the 100 butterfly in the 2004 Olympics. But Phelps held a 12.62% advantage over the women’s gold medalist, Australian Petria Thomas. Phelps’ advantage over women equates to over 150 times more than the advantage that Phelps had over his male competitors. If he had that same 12.62% advantage over his male competitors, he would have swam 6.47 seconds faster than he did to win the gold, or a time of 44.78 seconds. Meanwhile, the gap between first and eighth in the men’s Olympic final was a tiny gap of just 1.31 seconds. Lia Thomas, however, was not 11% slower. She was only 2.6% slower than she was pre-transition in the 200-yard freestyle, and just 5.76% slower in the 500-yard freestyle. That is NOT mitigation. It is NOT fair. I should add that it isn’t Lia’s fault. The problem is with the NCAA’s rules that permitted Penn to keep her on their women’s team. (Prior to the NCAA passing its transgender determination rules to USA Swimming, the governing body for college sports followed this rule). “A trans female treated with testosterone suppression medication may continue to compete on the men’s team but may not compete on the women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one year of testosterone suppression treatment.” But ‘one year of testosterone suppression treatment’ was not sufficient to level the playing field between Thomas and her female competitors. If seven-time U.S. Olympic champion Caeleb Dressel transitioned and was somehow able to mitigate the advantage he gained during male puberty, including any legacy advantage, and then broke women’s swimming events, I’d think this outcome was fair. Dressel is, after all, a once-in-a-generation athlete. Thomas was never in that category of standout athlete for the many years she competed as a male. Thomas proved that the advocates who assured the NCAA and their member schools that male puberty could be rolled back in a single year after consistent hormone treatment were wrong. The rules should follow the evidence, and in this case it is clear: Thomas should not have been in head-to-head competition with biological females. more.................. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX https://www.fsunews.com/story/opinion/2022/03/20/trans-athletes-should-not-compete-womens-sports/7108799001/ extract: In conclusion, I make the following case: trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports because it results in a regression in women’s equality and they won’t be able to showcase their skills and style. Additionally, in certain combat sports like MMA where punches, kicks, and jabs are thrown, numerous women have been seriously injured when fighting transgender athletes. It is for these reasons and those mentioned above that women’s sports should remain exclusive to biological women. extract: This is also the case when it comes to women. Sports give women the opportunity to show the world that they too can be extremely athletic and should be given the chance to show off their skills without having to compete against men. Because science has concluded time and time again that men are biologically stronger than women in terms of absolute strength, women need their own category of sports so that they can compete fairly with one another.

I worked for QANTAS for 15 years, and the passenger's weights are based on a system that is revised over periods of time. A child is estimated at a certain weight, a female at another certain weight and a male at another. The system applied takes into account wide error ranges that fall inside an aircrafts normal take-off weight and also the size of the aircraft. In fact in Australia, in smaller aircraft that sometimes are used to ferry passengers to small country regional areas etc, passengers are weighed along with their carry on baggage. If anyone views this as offensive, tough titty! They can find other ways of travelling. These estimated weights are of course revised periodically.

I have misunderstood nothing, and I am not really sure who introduced the "men vs women" angle. Perhaps you can go back and find out? With transgender people, the only remarks I have made concern the rarity of such people, and the lack of validated medical advice on them competing in sports and whether men or womens, along with the rules of the NRL concerning transgenders, and the same lack of medical facts. Would you like me to dig up those posts and repeat myself? I wish you would stop misrepresenting me. On repeating myself, I find that necessary since most of those repeats are evidence that man and women are unable to compete against each other on a level playing field in body contact sports, and the failed recognition of these facts by some.

These same people would not be interested in watching you in the ring with Mike Tyson. These same people are interested in watching sporting competitions, where all the competetors prowess, strength, speed and ability are at a professional level amd on reasonably level ground. While certainly some sports are able to see men and women compete on a level surface, (darts, chess, equestrian events) the majority of sports, particularly those body contact sports of heavy collisions, see men for obvious factual reasons, to have a distinct advantage in most areas over women. This is why we have the successful methodology of sex segregation, that makes women sports then far more attractive from the spectators point of view, and far more satisfying for the women competing, knowing they have less chance of injury, and a chance of winning. Or to repeat myself...... Agreed, as I mentioned a while back.....

🙄 Apologies for missing your sarcasm. Perhaps I'm taking this subject more serious then you and actually deal in facts. “For me, men's tennis and women's tennis are completely, almost, two separate sports,” Williams said. “If I were to play Andy Murray, I would lose 6-0, 6-0 in five to six minutes, maybe 10 minutes. No, it's true. It's a completely different sport.26 June 2017 https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news-the-williams-sisters-vs-karsten-braasch-the-world-no-203-destroyed-serena-williams-venus-williams-battle-sexes#:~:text=Williams sisters v Karsten Braasch,fun” and still beat them. https://www.essentiallysports.com/tennis-news-wta-atp-i-would-lose-6-0-6-0-in-five-minutes-serena-williams-on-playing-against-andy-murray/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

By that time, we will be merged into one larger galaxy anyway. 😉

Facepalm right back at you! 🥱 Have you a link addressing surf boat racing in the States? https://www.redbull.com/au-en/what-is-surfboat-rowing The madness of surfboating has been unfolding at surf lifesaving clubs around the country since 1908. It's as Australian as a meat pie – but what the hell is it? Welcome to surfboating. The aim of the game is to row your boat out through the surf and turn around, then catch a wave back to shore. The first boat back to the beach wins. Sounds simple, right? Actually, it’s anything but. First, a brief history lesson. Before the days of compact combustion engines, surf lifesavers used to row wooden long boats out through the surf to rescue stranded swimmers. As with all surf rescue techniques, lifesavers would compete with other each other to practice rescues and hone their skills. The first surfboat race was held at Manly Beach all the way back in 1908. Now we can fast-forward back to the present day where rescues are conducted using high-powered outboard engines on inflatable craft, but the subtle art of rowing a boat head first into 8 foot swells has stuck around. Where did this madness come from? The sport started as a way for surf lifesaving crews to stay sharp for rescues, but it’s now purely for competition. “There’s no other sport like it,” says Gary Allman, who’s been a surfboat rower (or a ‘boatie’) for over 30 years and currently competes for the Cronulla SLSC. “You need to be as fit as anything and strong – but without guts, you’ll crumble out there. As I said earlier, the dangers and the strengths needed in the sport means that the women compete in separate competitions, over shorter distances, and in calmer seas. Female events are inevitably cancelled in heavy seas. Rugby league and union is played in a mixed foormat, boys and girls together up until the ages of 10 years. Obviously from that point onward, the growing physical differences between the sexes, sees segregation then implemented for fairer and more even competitons, with less chances of impact injuries for the females.

I can find nothing re surf boat racing in the States, can you link to it? Don't be shy! What I'm interested in of course is the exact style compared to what we generally use and what other countries may employ. https://www.australianwoodenboatfestival.com.au/the-australian-surfboat/ History and Development Australian surfboats evolved from whaling longboats and pilot boats built during the nineteenth century for rough sea conditions and durability. The development of surfboats was originally based on rescuing bathers from the surf but over time a sport developed with surfboats racing through the surf, turning a buoy and racing back to the beach. The shifting focus of surfboat design reflects its changing purpose over time. The Australian surfboat has always needed to be suitable for rowing in rough surf conditions and catching waves while increasingly being fast through the water and able to be carried on shore by the crew. Of course now days they are exclusively used in competition, and not in rescue where we have the more modern, faster unsinkable motor craft. On your transgender comment, surf boat racing is extremely dangerous and can result in serious injury, giving good reason why sex segregation is a must. Women surf boat competitions are more likely to be cancelled when the surf is up or choppy, whereas the men events, being able to handle heavy weather better because they are stronger, will participate in the more heavy weather. Don't know the rules re transgenders or whether they compete or not. Footy time now, so any more help from my direction you will need to wait for until I return. 😅😂 What a gem of a comment in reply to the usual silly questions/answers!!!

As far as I know, it also applies with other sports including hockey. https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/cups/wahockey/files/nyddt1wtzl7yirgg.pdf extract: Girls playing in boys competition There is no restriction on the number of girls playing in a team in a boy’s grade, however in all age groups other than J 5/6 they do so at their own risk and the child’s parent must give consent (in writing) to the Club before she may participate. 8.4 Boys playing in girls competition 8.4.1 A team playing in a Girls Competition fixture may include a boy if: 8.4.1.1 the boy has not attained the age of 12 years as at the date on which the game is played; 8.4.1.2 the fixture is the only match on a weekend that the boy plays; 8.4.1.3 there are no more than two boys in the team; and 8.4.1.4 there are no more than twelve players in the team. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Of course in reality, other then probably the junior grades, this doesn't happen. The girls have their comp...the boys have their's. But I welcome all new comers to our great country and its general relaxed, vibrant, realistic culture/s. 😉 That's OK, although in your position, I would have said, correct...or you are right. I'm pretty sure that it or similar is also used in other sports, at least in my generally relaxed, vibrant, and realistic culture. Another sport, (although unique to Australia) that I had limited competition in was surf boat racing. The same strict segregation applies due to the far greater strength of the males...... An incredibly exciting sport, spectator and participant wise, particularly in big seas as the next video shows