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zero + zero = zero Or if you like... 0+0=0

Wheewh! Thank Christ for that!!😉 [as an aside, did you see the movie The Two Popes?] Anthony Hopkins, one of my favourite actors and certainly confirmed your info on the current pope..

How far from now do you suggest? Speaking as an outsider, I see the extremes of politics both left and right as dangerous and unrealistic. While certainly the USA are being held back by the right and the rednecks of their society, does not suggest any collapse of their system. The three scenarios in my opinion that are holding America back, are their archaic gun laws, lack of a universal health care system, and action on climate change. If Biden is successful on reversing and/or modifying those three, I believe the majority of Americans will see and be beneficial of the results and their democracy will flourish, as will most of the democratic world. Out of the three, only action on climate change, is lacking in my country.

The paper is dated 2010. Here is some more recent stuff..... https://arxiv.org/pdf/0901.4597.pdf Thermal recoil force, telemetry, and the Pioneer anomaly: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, California 91109-8099, USA† (Dated: May 30, 2018) Precision navigation of spacecraft requires accurate knowledge of small forces, including the recoil force due to anisotropies of thermal radiation emitted by spacecraft systems. We develop a formalism to derive the thermal recoil force from the basic principles of radiative heat exchange and energymomentum conservation. The thermal power emitted by the spacecraft can be computed from engineering data obtained from flight telemetry, which yields a practical approach to incorporate the thermal recoil force into precision spacecraft navigation. Alternatively, orbit determination can be used to estimate the contribution of the thermal recoil force. We apply this approach to the Pioneer anomaly using a simulated Pioneer 10 Doppler data set. Conclusion: An object that emits heat experiences a recoil force due to radiation pressure. In this paper, we developed the basic equations that can be used to estimate the magnitude of this recoil force, and relate the recoil force to the amount of heat produced internally. We have been able to show how, under specific circumstances, the recoil force can be modeled as an homogeneous linear function of the power of discrete internal power sources. When this approach is applicable, the linear relationship can be readily incorporated into orbit determination efforts. To analyze the trajectory of Pioneer 10 and 11, we developed orbit determination software that estimates the thermal recoil force acting on the spacecraft. Our software uses telemetry information as it calculates the thermal power of on-board heat sources as functions of time. A comprehensive thermal model, presently under development, will allow us to verify the key assumptions behind our modeling, most notably the assertion that the thermal recoil force is accurately modeled as a linear, homogeneous function of electrical heat and heat from the radioisotope thermoelectric generators. Using a simulated Doppler data set and actual Pioneer 10 telemetry, we demonstrated that it is possible in principle to distinguish acceleration due thermal radiation from a constant sunward acceleration term. Newly recovered Doppler data are now available as a result of an extensive data recovery effort [1, 7]. This will allow us to extend our analysis, and verify whether or not the thermal recoil force can account for the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11. These results will be published elsewhere when they become available. We emphasize that the approach presented here, notably the direct utilization of flight telemetry in precision spacecraft navigation codes, has never been attempted before. The approach we describe is applicable not only to the case of Pioneer 10 and 11, but also to the case of present and future spacecraft. One mission in particular that may benefit from this approach is New Horizons, on its way towards an encounter with Pluto in 2015. While presently not used for gravitational research, such investigations could be conducted during its multiyear cruise. If such an investigation is undertaken, it will require accurate estimates of the thermal recoil force due to the waste heat produced by New Horizons’ RTG and cal equipment. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://astronomy.com/news/2018/08/how-the-pioneer-anomaly-was-solved extract: An explanation emerges When all of these possibilities were considered, one potential cause of the Pioneer anomaly repeatedly came to the fore: thermal effects, mostly originating from the four RTGs aboard each Pioneer. To fully analyze this possibility, Turyshev and colleagues (most notably Viktor Toth) used predicted and actual thermal measurements to create a highly accurate thermal model of the spacecraft. They first modeled the effects of heating from the Sun on the trailing face of the Pioneers. Then they turned to heat sources on the spacecraft. Heat from the RTGs radiated toward the leading edge of the spacecraft, in the direction of its motion, and heat from the electronics box also primarily radiated in this same direction. This generated a sunward (backward) pressure on the entire spacecraft. As a result, the overall heating of the craft, when all factors were included, was asymmetric. Ultimately, Turyshev and colleagues concluded that radiation forces from the differential heating of the spacecraft, known as thermal recoil forces, from the RTGs and electronics were enough to explain the entire Pioneer anomaly. Additional analysis showed that the Pioneer anomaly also appears to be decreasing in intensity with time, likely as a result of the RTGs’ radioactive decay and slow decline in power output, providing further support for the conclusions reached by Turyshev. In the end, the theory of relativity was not overthrown, our understanding of physics is not flawed, the Pioneer anomaly was explained to people’s satisfaction, and, for now, the question has been put to rest. But the story of the Pioneer anomaly shows how exacting measurements in science can generate new questions, challenge old ideas, and stimulate new ways to solve complex problems. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.2886v1.pdf Support for temporally varying behavior of the Pioneer anomaly from the extended Pioneer 10 and 11 Doppler data sets: (Dated: May 28, 2018) The Pioneer anomaly is a small sunward anomalous acceleration found in the trajectory analysis of the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft. As part of the investigation of the effect, analysis of recently recovered Doppler data for both spacecraft has been completed. The presence of a small anomalous acceleration is confirmed using data spans more than twice as long as those that were previously analyzed. We examine the constancy and direction of the Pioneer anomaly, and conclude that: i) the data favor a temporally decaying anomalous acceleration ( ∼ 2 × 10 −11 m/s 2 /yr) with an over 10% improvement in the residuals compared to a constant acceleration model; ii) although the direction of the acceleration remains imprecisely determined, we find no support in favor of a Sun-pointing direction over the Earth-pointing or along the spin-axis directions, and iii) support for an early “onset” of the acceleration remains weak in the pre-Saturn Pioneer 11 tracking data. We present these new findings and discuss their implications for the nature of the Pioneer anomaly. In Australia, we call it "Tall Poppy Syndrome" Tall poppy syndrome is the questionable behaviour in some people that feel uncomfortable when confronted with superior intelligence or acts, as it brings into question there own mediocre efforts and/or personal ability.

You don't have a model. You have a fairy tale.

Yes, you are and Ghideon has given you possible answers, which "strangely" you see the need to dismiss out of hand. What are your credentials and what expertise do you have? You see anyway it would be rather difficult to give a definitive answer due to circumstances, just a variation of possibilities. Perhaps something as insignificant, trivial and mundane does not need an explanation? Perhaps it's just, you know, an illusion? not worth really commenting on? Did that ever enter into your now rather strange and weird persistence in something so trivial? Or do you have some hidden agenda? Again, if you are fair dinkum, and without any agenda, ask NASA. ☺️ Are you serious? You have heard of E-Mail, yes? You are able to search, google and come up with all your videos and photos, claiming some "silly" anomaly, I'm sure you could E-Mail NASA.

So your saying, in your "expert" opinion, it isn't anything so mundane. So tell us, what you think it is? I mean someone as "expert" as yourself, must have an opinion. Why havn't you checked with NASA, as obviously with the multitude of tricks light can play, as evident with Curiosity and the link I gave, they would be able to give you a definitive answer.

You seem to be an expert on light and its reflective and/or refractive properties. So again, why do you keep ignoring the suggestion to check with NASA, who has successfully landed half a dozen or more probes and rovers. They will probably give you a evidenced based, reasonable answer. In the meantime, I think this is relevant....... https://scitechdaily.com/curiosity-image-captures-mysterious-bright-spot/ A newly released Curiosity image shows a bright spot on the surface of Mars, which was possibly caused by the sun glinting off a rock or cosmic rays striking the camera’s detector. Images taken by NASA’s Curiosity Mars rover on April 2 and April 3 include bright spots, which might be due to the sun glinting off a rock or cosmic rays striking the camera’s detector. extract: “In the thousands of images we’ve received from Curiosity, we see ones with bright spots nearly every week,” said Justin Maki of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California, leader of the team that built and operates the Navigation Camera. “These can be caused by cosmic-ray hits or sunlight glinting from rock surfaces, as the most likely explanations.” ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: No that is wrong. https://scitechdaily.com/image-of-nasas-curiosity-and-its-parachute-heading-towards-the-surface-of-mars/ NASA’s Curiosity rover and its parachute were spotted by NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter as Curiosity descended to the surface on Aug. 5 PDT (Aug. 6 EDT). Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Univ. of Arizona As NASA’s Curiosity rover descended on Mars, NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter captured an image of Curiosity and its parachute with the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera. Curiosity and its parachute are in the center of the white box; the inset image is a cutout of the rover stretched to avoid saturation. Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Univ. of Arizona The image was taken while MRO was 211 miles (340 kilometers) away from the parachuting rover. Curiosity and its rocket-propelled backpack, contained within the conical-shaped back shell, had yet to be deployed. At the time, Curiosity was about two miles (three kilometers) above the Martian surface.

I was raised a Catholic and went to a Catholic school. I would imagine that if the Pope has read some of my comments re religious people that come to science forums, to belittle and attack science, I would now be excommunicated. Oh the pain of it all!!😉 Bingo!! Great answer...there are many good people that one may label believer or atheist, and many bad, evil people on both sides. I mentioned it some time ago, but I don't accept labels and see myself as someone in total support of science and the search for explanations, and the scientific method and what it entails. When we abandon those principles, then we will be heading back to the stone age!

Oh, OK, my apologies for my suspicious nature. it's just that there is always the ratbag conspiracy nut, all too willing to cry fake, despite the overwhelming, convincing and irrefutable evidence that NASA is the world's leading expert on Martian landings. So, as I previously suggested, why don't you approach the people who launched and landed the rover, and are responsible for maintaining contact with it? Ghideon has also explained the myriad of possibilities.

Have you done as much questionable research into such mundane circumstances with the other many rovers and landers? Will you keep on avoiding answering questions re your intent? Exactly! There could be many explanations and as I have said, NASA would be the place for the correct explanation.

Final paragraph in Markus' post is the obvious question to be answered. To deny something as validated as time dilation/contraction is indefensible. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/einsteins-time-dilation-prediction-verified/#:~:text=To test the time-dilation,ion research in Darmstadt%2C Germany. Physicists have verified a key prediction of Albert Einstein’s special theory of relativity with unprecedented accuracy. Experiments at a particle accelerator in Germany confirm that time moves slower for a moving clock than for a stationary one. The work is the most stringent test yet of this ‘time-dilation’ effect, which Einstein predicted. One of the consequences of this effect is that a person travelling in a high-speed rocket would age more slowly than people back on Earth. Few scientists doubt that Einstein was right. But the mathematics describing the time-dilation effect are “fundamental to all physical theories”, says Thomas Udem, a physicist at the Max Planck Institute for Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, who was not involved in the research. “It is of utmost importance to verify it with the best possible accuracy.” more at link...................

Why not tell us exactly what you are driving at? Did you notice these "fabricated mundane anomalies" with the other rovers and landers? You know, like the Vikings, Sojourner, Spirit and Opportunity, and of course Curiosity...Not to mention Phoenix.

strange?? Naa, not really. But hey, NASA would be the place to get that mundane answer.

I'm sure there's a logical mundane answer to your rather creative conclusion...strange?? Naa, not really. But hey, NASA would be the place to get that mundane answer.

Off goes my head, on goes a pumpkin! 😬 What I should have said is, Intervals of space and time considered separately are not the same for all observers, but the spacetime interval, is invariant. Thanks for that pick-up.

Wow! How ingenious!! I want one!

I havn't followed this thread, but I reckon the first three answers are pretty good. https://www.google.com/search?q=what+would+an+atom+actually+look+like&oq=what+would+an+atom+actually+look+like&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l2j0i390l2.23543j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Physicist: Actual pictures of atoms aren't actually pictures at all. There are a few good rules of thumb in physics. Among the best is: light acts like you'd expect on scales well above its wavelength and acts weird on scales below.

https://phys.org/news/2021-02-supermassive-black-holes-dark.html New study suggests supermassive black holes could form from dark matter: A new theoretical study has proposed a novel mechanism for the creation of supermassive black holes from dark matter. The international team find that rather than the conventional formation scenarios involving 'normal' matter, supermassive black holes could instead form directly from dark matter in high density regions in the centers of galaxies. The result has key implications for cosmology in the early Universe, and is published in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society. Exactly how supermassive black holes initially formed is one of the biggest problems in the study of galaxy evolution today. Supermassive black holes have been observed as early as 800 million years after the Big Bang, and how they could grow so quickly remains unexplained. more at link.............. the paper: https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/502/3/4227/6056505 On the formation and stability of fermionic dark matter haloes in a cosmological framework: ABSTRACT: The formation and stability of collisionless self-gravitating systems are long-standing problems, which date back to the work of D. Lynden-Bell on violent relaxation and extends to the issue of virialization of dark matter (DM) haloes. An important prediction of such a relaxation process is that spherical equilibrium states can be described by a Fermi–Dirac phase-space distribution, when the extremization of a coarse-grained entropy is reached. In the case of DM fermions, the most general solution develops a degenerate compact core surrounded by a diluted halo. As shown recently, the latter is able to explain the galaxy rotation curves, while the DM core can mimic the central black hole. A yet open problem is whether these kinds of astrophysical core–halo configurations can form at all, and whether they remain stable within cosmological time-scales. We assess these issues by performing a thermodynamic stability analysis in the microcanonical ensemble for solutions with a given particle number at halo virialization in a cosmological framework. For the first time, we demonstrate that the above core–halo DM profiles are stable (i.e. maxima of entropy) and extremely long-lived. We find the existence of a critical point at the onset of instability of the core–halo solutions, where the fermion-core collapses towards a supermassive black hole. For particle masses in the keV range, the core-collapse can only occur for Mvir≳109M⊙Mvir≳109M⊙ starting at zvir ≈ 10 in the given cosmological framework. Our results prove that DM haloes with a core–halo morphology are a very plausible outcome within non-linear stages of structure formation. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DM interacts only gravitationally. BH's also in reality, only interact gravitationally, correct? So could we distinguish between them? I say no. How about the Hawking radiation effect?

Wow! I certainly wish that you would modify your use of the English language, in line with that generally used everyday in the 21st century. Onto the subject matter, I was certainly unaware of Henri Bergson until I googled the name...ahh, another philosopher I see. Albert of course is well known, as he should be. There is no statement so absurd that no philosopher will make it. Cicero, Marcus Tullius (106-43 BCE) Roman statesman. De Divinatione Philosophy of science is about as useful to scientists as ornithology is to birds. Attributed to Richard Feynman. Apologies to my Philosophy friends. Obviously, not necessarily all people and/or all theories must indeed be wrong, but just as obviously most are. Even the great Isaac Newton, who you actually raised as an example, also said that he only saw as far as he did, because he was standing on the shoulders of giants. I will as a nobody add to that by saying that science is a discipline in eternal progress. The validity and benefits of both SR and GR have continually gained momentum, and knowledge/data through the years, and as even in recent times, had predictions verified. [gravitational waves and BH's] Space is simply what exists between you and me, the planets and galaxies. Time is what stops everything from happening together, or a means of measuring intervals between sequential events. Spacetime is the unified multidimensional framework constructed by Minkowski and which we locate events, and describe them in terms of the three spatial dimensions and that of time. The necessity of spacetime, follows from the fact that the speed of light is constant. Intervals of Spacetime considered separately by different observers, vary and are not the same. And finally and most importantly, in GR, gravity is described and evident in the curvature and warping of spacetime. Rest assuredly that we have no universal NOW. If that means what I think it means, it is then categorically, totally wrong. Time dilation and contraction are experimentally verified. Our GPS systems and other data attest to that fact.

Yes, thanks for that, some extra knowledge as well as being interestingly enjoyable. Reading and using a sextant today is probably a lost art, although I think the RAN [ Royal Australian Navy] gives lessons to new recruits... The Barquentine I had the pleasure of sailing on and where I learnt how to read and operate a sextant was called Eolus, a photo of here here........ http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B4FWR5/the-sailing-ship-eolus-seen-here-arriving-at-portsmouth-at-the-beginning-B4FWR5.jpg

Pre 18th Century, Sailing was a risky business, with only being able to determine one's position by Dead Reckoning and Latitude. While Latitude could be readily calculated, longitude was unknown with no means to determine, once out of Land sight. Sailors pre 18th century would follow known Latitudes until reaching a familiar land form. This was called "westing" or "easting" depending on the direction sailing, and would have been the method I presume that Columbus made, when reaching the Americas. The latest time machines of the day, pendulum clocks, were obviously useless at sea, due to the instability. This problem was seen so urgent to overcome that in the early 1700's, Britain established "The board of Longitude" and offered a grand prize to anyone that could solve this vexing problem. Then along came a self taught Carpenter, named John Harrison, with an Interest in time and time keeping devices. His story and perseverence in finally creating a marine chronometer over 40 years of efforts, is told here.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison I have raised this because he is mostly unknown, and while marine chronometers are now outdated with radio and GPS, the importance of his invention for that time period cannot be underestimated. Captain James Cook used his final chronometer on his Pacific expedition in 1770 to study a solar eclipse in Tahiti, later of course sailing on to map and record the Islands of New Zealand and Australia's east coast. I also personally used a ship's chronometer on a barquentine sailing from Panama to Sydney in 1974 and learning navigation via a sextant, by the Sun, Moon, and prominent planets and stars. Later I also read a great little book, entitled "Longitude" The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time. By an American woman named Dava Sobel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book) A truly great notable human being, generally not given the praize he deserves. Hope others find his story interesting.

You are ignoring all the answers being given to you. It was space and time itself that evolved at the BB. It does not suggest God did it, rather that at some point, we need a QGT. It didn't. read your previous answers or some reputable material. Perhaps you again need to research what a BH is, because going on what you have posted, you have no idea. The first thing you and your group need to do is understand current cosmology, before you attempt to rewrite it in paragraphs and posts of nonsense. In essence, and noting how you are simply ignoring all the answers given to you, I believe you are playing games.

Read what you have already been told. A singularity as defined by infinite spacetime curvature and density does not exist, only a singularity as defined by where our laws of physics do not apply. And of course you do not have a scientific theory. Also, I do not accept that as proof of a spherical universe, it's still a hypothesis. The trumpet, theory hypothesis was probably changed to fit your singularity expansion in a spherical shape. What you accept is neither here nor there. The BB model of universal/space/time evolution, aligns with the four main observational pillars: [1] We observe expansion and cosmological redshift, which tells us that the universe was hotter and denser in the past...[2] We see the relic heat from the BB itself, the CMBR...[3] The observed abundance of the lighter elements...[4] and galactic formation and evolution.

Incredible video of landing from on=board cameras...................... https://phys.org/news/2021-02-nasa-video-perseverance-rover-mars.html The video clip, lasting three minutes and 25 seconds, showed the deployment of the parachute and the rover's touchdown on the surface of the Red Planet. "These are really amazing videos," said Michael Watkins, director of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "This is the first time we've ever been able to capture an event like the landing on Mars." phys.org/news/2021-02-nasa-video-perseverance-rover-mars.html