beecee

You have accused the mods of unjust actions, as well as the powers that be in getting this supposed news out to the world: Truth be that there is no evidence supporting your myth of any god, and of course going on your pretentious reactions and comments elsewhere, moderation action was fair and reasonable. The ignorance obviously rests on your shoulders and so far you have convinced no one here because you have confused and misinterpreted research Mystical experience is evident of nothing more then hallucinating, dreaming and/or awe of something extraordinary, certainly not evidence of any god that some questionable philosophy deals with rather questionably. It will remain mostly unknown within and outside scientific circles, simply because it is research into subjective natter and material and fails to do what you so much wish for. If you were fair dinkum you would do as I ask. You ain't and the claim is nothing more then what has been fabricated in your mind. What you say you were is of no interest to me, only the falsity of your claims. And rather ironic that you claim my bias, when that bias has been shown to exist with yourself and your rhetorical ramblings that do not support what you claim. Your claim on some qquestionable philosophy is false. The research did not conclude that there is evidence for god, and the fact that it has barely created a ripple in news services around the world, and within scientific circles, supports that rather mundane conclusion. And finally no matter how many times you chose to repeat your untrue claims, does not make them true. The status quo re god, the divine, and the supernatural stands as it did yesterday, this morning and for any future prediction you care to make. Your claim, on this forum, open to any Tom, Dick or Harry, will in time simply vanish in cyber space.

Let's see, so far from this claim re evidence for god, we have [1]Conspiracy by the mods and lack of objectivity and fairness [or words to that effect], [2] Claims that although this would be world shattering news answering one of mankinds greatest questions, science and the powers that be, is holding it back, [3] Claims that mystical experiences as evidence for god, [4] claims that some philosophical scientific research which he supposedly has studied for many years, has claimed that we have evidence for god, but just in a manner the forum has failed to recognise. So a mixture of conspiracy explanations, misinterpretations of research, and/or obfuscating. And finally, some pretentious arrogance and victim claiming status. Seems you have everything covered in your own mind, that throw any doubt at all on your unevidenced and misinterpreted claims. But that's par for the course for most god botherers, and religious fanatics. Again, please point me to the evidence supporting your mythical/ mystical claims...not a block of text, as I'm really not interested in listening to or reading your rhetorical preaching and crusade...Simply highlight the actual sentence for me, just as I have highlighted the actual claims that this does not show that any god exists.

You have attempted nothing at all except referral to loads of text. Again show me where anyone concludes that there is any evidence for god. There is no statement so absurd that no philosopher will make it. Cicero, Marcus Tullius (106-43 BCE) Roman statesman. De Divinatione Philosophy of science is about as useful to scientists as ornithology is to birds. Attributed to Richard Feynman (1918-88) U.S. Physicist. Nobel Prize 1965. Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself. Henry Louis Mencken. (1880-1956). Minority Report, H. L. Mencken's Notebooks. Knopf, 1956. So much for philosophical jargon as determined by claims in this thread. The mind boggles!

Show me, I'm waiting. No don't bother, we'll end up with a mile long useless texts and a waste of cyber space, where incidentally your claims will eventually be lost forever in. In the meantime, I'll leave you to rant some more...I have things to do and places to see, satisfied that you have achieved SFA here except another example of how illogical someone that is a religious fanatic can be.

I also have had a mystical experience with two blonde twins when I was much younger. And close to other mystical experiences while lying back on a beach in Fiji one night with my trusty Binos, and for the first time making out the Galileon Satellites. It was awesome!! But you are hampered by your incredible misinterpretation by accepting that a mystical experience is evident of god. It's not.

There was no finding as your reluctantly and finally admitted to, that this science was evidence for any god. And that standing will continue, even a 100 years, or 500 years hence. I'll support my scientifically based claims against your unsupported ranting any day, and the length of your threads in trying to convert people with useless, baseless claims attest to that. I would also worry about your own emotional state, as mine is pretty good and as you have been informed earlier, certainly not tied up with any atheist labeling. So much for the research that you claim you have done when you seem to have already forgotten that., and its you of course doing the ranting.

And of course like many other fanatics trying to push a particular religious concept, the old Einstein reference comes out. Let's get it straight, Einstein did not accept any god...He merely aligned with the obvious fact, as per Spinoza, that Nature itself evolved as Nature does. in other words the natural everyday atmospheric, natural physical occurrences in the world/universe....nothing more, nothing less, and I accept that. It is an analogy of sorts.

You have done exactly the opposite. You have grossly misinterpreted the science and simply reenforced your own personal religious beliefs. And the only bias is that in your own thinking you believe you are right, when all you are doing is mentally re-enforcing your mythical beliefs. Are so at last!!!it was never said. thank you. So much for your honesty and misinterpretation. The rest of your ranting and raving is ignored for what it is...ranting and raving.

Show me in the research where it says its evidence that god exists? Stop being obtuse. You are saying its evidence for god...its not as everyone is telling you. And I'll confidently say it won't change. We will not find evidence of any god, not withstanding your imaginary misinterpretation of the experiment. They are opinions, nothing more nothing less...in other words no evidence of what you claim. I have no doubt you'll keep trolling. The links are not evidence that god exists, period.

Well yeah, we do get our share of god botherers, and most all like you are unable to interact withing the scientific methodology. Perhaps when you reply to this with your usual rhetorical nonsense, you can declare your crusade a success and get a medal off your Overlords. The forum to a man reject your nonsensical claims, not the science...It is you preaching and getting that last imaginary rebuttal to your nonsense, to interpret as your imaginary victory. The science stands old friend, and will tomorrow and next week and next year and the year after...You know that and I know that and that's what's eating at you and your imagination.

Bingo!! I'll make a divine prediction...this nonsense will be closed like the other nonsense was closed the other day. As I said previously, if this was in any degree true re evidence for any semblance of god, it would be world shattering news for weks, months and years....People would be falling to their knees in humble adoration. Guess what? All I got in return was conspiracy fabrication as to why it wasn't so. No wonder poor old Moontanman passed him onto us! Don't blame you mate.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1464070?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents What happens or is speculated within this so called perennial philosophy, stays within this supposed perennial philosophy. The fact remains though, that according to the overwhelming bulk of science, and all of mainstream science, any mystical experience is subjective and definitely no evidence for any magical spaghetti monster of any kind. Well said. Advice given to me in the past is that one can never argue with a religious zealot which is so obvious in this thread.

Agreed entirely, but it really must take an addled brain that is able to interpret the science in question as evidence for deities of any persausion to exist. It actually takes away from the real science being done. But its worth noting that most science forums at one time or another, are assaulted by many manners of god botherers/cranks/trolls that claim through many manners of false subjective reasoning that this or that deity is evidenced to exist.

Or more realistically you are just driven to satisfy your religious Overlords and the crusade you have undertaken, by getting that last word in. It doesn't work Sir. This is a science forum, and your claim/s are unscientific, unevidenced and misinterpreted as all are trying to tell you. In fact this is getting to be trolling, so I'll leave you to your devices, delusions emotions and drugs. The last time I looked any existence of any deity of any persausion is non existent. But I'll keep checking on the news daily and wait for any report/s on what you are claiming to be factual, is factual. But you won't mind if I don't hold my breath will you? Bye, you take it easy.

No, that's your own wishful thinking brought on by past events I would guess. No science, no scientists, has shown evidence that any deity exists. Only in your delusional mind. The day it makes world wide news, the day that mainstream science finally agree we have evidence for god, is not going to happen, despite your apparent valiant crusade for your imaginary god. That's not true, nor does it claim any evidence of god is forthcoming....it's in your mind and the object of your crusade mission, that's all. I'm not denying the science or the research. I'm pointing out your faulty interpretations, side stepping and obtuseness that your crusade is driving you to conduct against us heathen atheists, and of course your continued refusal to point out the exact concrete evidence that is supposedly showing your delusional god does exist.

And I was raised as a good little Catholic boy, and I was an Altar boy to boot, until I was found drinking the altar wine behind the altar...So? No mystical experience is any evidence for god, not withstanding your own delusions. The divine is an unscientifc unevidenced mythical belief held by gullible people, to help them feel good. I need neither that or drugs. It's certainly is speculation, and as far back as Billy James....no evidence, observational or experimental, simply a collection of thoughts, opinions, and delusions. They are scientific opinions based on the evidence or lack thereof, not withstanding your own irrational denial of anything contrary to your delusions. And you continue to ignore my request for the evidence, the hard evidence that shows any god exists.

A famous painter??? A painter maybe, but a painter with an agenda and then resorting to conspiracy as an excuse. The claims are false, live with it. Of course you are wrong...on at least three points....[1] I have asked you politely for the exact evidence that shows your god exists...you have failed: [2] The article [your article and research have never said anything about this being evidence for god: [3] Mystical experiences are subjective and either way is not evidence for any god. As has been pointed out to you many peer reviewed publications exist which are totally speculative, and secondly your publications do not claim that it is evidence for any god...that is your own interpretation and delusion. I suggest you stop being obtuse and answer my request of a couple of days ago, and show me or quote me the evidence that shows your spaghetti monster exists. Here are some of the links and extracts........ https://qz.com/1196408/scientists-studying-psilocybin-accidentally-proved-the-self-is-an-illusion/ Scientists studying psychoactive drugs accidentally proved the self is an illusion Psychologists distinguish radical transformative experiences as “quantum changes,” as opposed to incremental behavioral-based shifts. But the two are not mutually exclusive. An epiphany prompted by psilocybin can give rise to a new enthusiasm, curiosity, or sense of wonder that can trigger behavioral changes or new interests, spurring travel, dance, contemplation, meditation, an interest in nature, people, or other cultures. Likewise, no momentary experience is so magical and profound as to make every moment thereafter easy to manage, which is why practitioners of meditation may experience illumination when sitting, but still struggle in day-to-day life. Extraordinary experiences become normal, and personal dramas become boring, once you perceive the brain’s prankster at work—and then you can really relax. As Trungpa writes in his 1984 text, Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior, “Life is a humorous situation but it is not mocking us.” :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: the next link..... https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/08/religious-leaders-get-high-on-magic-mushrooms-ingredient-for-science Religious leaders get high on magic mushrooms ingredient – for science: Others are more openly enthusiastic about the broader, non-medical, uses of psychedelic drugs. “My wild fantasy is that, probably some time after I’m long dead, these drugs are used in seminary training, rabbinical training,” said Richards, who began research into psychedelics in the 1960s. “Why shouldn’t the opportunity be there to explore deeply spiritual states of consciousness in a legal way?” :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342293/ Psilocybin-occasioned Mystical Experiences in the Treatment of Tobacco Addiction Abstract Psilocybin-occasioned mystical experiences have been linked to persisting effects in healthy volunteers including positive changes in behavior, attitudes, and values, and increases in the personality domain of openness. In an open-label pilot-study of psilocybin-facilitated smoking addiction treatment, 15 smokers received 2 or 3 doses of psilocybin in the context of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for smoking cessation. Twelve of 15 participants (80%) demonstrated biologically verified smoking abstinence at 6-month follow-up. Participants who were abstinent at 6 months (n=12) were compared to participants still smoking at 6 months (n=3) on measures of subjective effects of psilocybin. Abstainers scored significantly higher on a measure of psilocybin-occasioned mystical experience. No significant differences in general intensity of drug effects were found between groups, suggesting that mystical-type subjective effects, rather than overall intensity of drug effects, were responsible for smoking cessation. Nine of 15 participants (60%) met criteria for “complete” mystical experience. Smoking cessation outcomes were significantly correlated with measures of mystical experience on session days, as well as retrospective ratings of personal meaning and spiritual significance of psilocybin sessions. These results suggest a mediating role of mystical experience in psychedelic-facilitated addiction treatment. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104240746 The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism But now, some researchers are using new technologies to try to understand spiritual experience. They're peering into our brains and studying our bodies to look for circumstantial evidence of a spiritual world. The search is in its infancy, and scientists doubt they will ever be able to prove — or disprove — the existence of God. I spent a year exploring the emerging science of spirituality for my book, Fingerprints of God. One of the questions raised by my reporting: Is an encounter with God merely a chemical reaction?

You certainly are inferring a conspiracy by quoting some nut with an agenda Alex Grey. Again if this was factual it would be truly earth shattering and incredible...It could not and would not be contained...it would be printed about, talked about, for weeks, months and years.....It would be even more notable then evidence that we were not alone in this universe. You can maintain and believe what you like but you are wrong or deliberately and insideously misinterpeting the research that has been done. That's false as my previous links have shown. Mystical experiences are not evident for any god. Once again you are being obtuse and evasive at best. I suggest you are obsessed and now simply and irrationally denying the actual research. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104240746 The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism But now, some researchers are using new technologies to try to understand spiritual experience. They're peering into our brains and studying our bodies to look for circumstantial evidence of a spiritual world. The search is in its infancy, and scientists doubt they will ever be able to prove — or disprove — the existence of God. I spent a year exploring the emerging science of spirituality for my book, Fingerprints of God. One of the questions raised by my reporting: Is an encounter with God merely a chemical reaction?

So you are claiming conspiracy now? I suggest you stop raving and emotionally denying the fact that anyone in this experiment has ever claimed [other then yourself ] that it is evident of god. It's not, and mystical experiences are simply subjective and in no way evidence. Like I said, I've had my own in more ways then one. Well said and to the point. It must take a incredible amount of brain washing to believe any so called "mystical experience" is evidence of any god.

No I am correct. Again if there was any evidence for any deity uncovered, it would be world shattering news and people would be falling to their knees.It's not and it isn't...or are you now dabbling and claiming some conspiracy? That science as I have shown, has most certainly not uncovered any evidence for any god. Mystical experiences are not evidence for god, period.

More to the point, is your own emotional, unscientific and irrational investment in this nonsense.

As I have adequately shown, no it is not. And requests of you to show/state the exact evidence for any interpretation of any deity has been ignored or simply avoided with hand waving and ignorance. It appears actually that you probably have been so brain washed, in religious dogma and myth, that you are deliberately misinterpreting everything that the professionals have simply speculated on and in many cases answered in the negative. Let me again say that you have no evidence whatsoever that any research, and scientific endeavour, has resulted in any evidence for any god of any persausion. Mystic experiences are not evidence for god...you know that, I know that, and the scientists and others involved in this stuff also know that.

This now seems to be a rehash of what was wrongly claimed in the previous thread that was closed. Anyway......Having ignored most of the opinionated videos supplied, I decided on another route to throw light on this totally mis-interpreted nonsense, probably due to personal fanatical convictions. And we all know what that can lead to. Anyway, so I typed in "is psilocybin research and mystical experiences evidence that god exists" just to see what it came up with......Surprise, surprise!! Not one mention of this research, in saying that it is evidence that god exists. Here are some of the links and extracts........ https://qz.com/1196408/scientists-studying-psilocybin-accidentally-proved-the-self-is-an-illusion/ Scientists studying psychoactive drugs accidentally proved the self is an illusion Psychologists distinguish radical transformative experiences as “quantum changes,” as opposed to incremental behavioral-based shifts. But the two are not mutually exclusive. An epiphany prompted by psilocybin can give rise to a new enthusiasm, curiosity, or sense of wonder that can trigger behavioral changes or new interests, spurring travel, dance, contemplation, meditation, an interest in nature, people, or other cultures. Likewise, no momentary experience is so magical and profound as to make every moment thereafter easy to manage, which is why practitioners of meditation may experience illumination when sitting, but still struggle in day-to-day life. Extraordinary experiences become normal, and personal dramas become boring, once you perceive the brain’s prankster at work—and then you can really relax. As Trungpa writes in his 1984 text, Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior, “Life is a humorous situation but it is not mocking us.” :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: the next link..... https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/08/religious-leaders-get-high-on-magic-mushrooms-ingredient-for-science Religious leaders get high on magic mushrooms ingredient – for science: Others are more openly enthusiastic about the broader, non-medical, uses of psychedelic drugs. “My wild fantasy is that, probably some time after I’m long dead, these drugs are used in seminary training, rabbinical training,” said Richards, who began research into psychedelics in the 1960s. “Why shouldn’t the opportunity be there to explore deeply spiritual states of consciousness in a legal way?” :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342293/ Psilocybin-occasioned Mystical Experiences in the Treatment of Tobacco Addiction Abstract Psilocybin-occasioned mystical experiences have been linked to persisting effects in healthy volunteers including positive changes in behavior, attitudes, and values, and increases in the personality domain of openness. In an open-label pilot-study of psilocybin-facilitated smoking addiction treatment, 15 smokers received 2 or 3 doses of psilocybin in the context of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for smoking cessation. Twelve of 15 participants (80%) demonstrated biologically verified smoking abstinence at 6-month follow-up. Participants who were abstinent at 6 months (n=12) were compared to participants still smoking at 6 months (n=3) on measures of subjective effects of psilocybin. Abstainers scored significantly higher on a measure of psilocybin-occasioned mystical experience. No significant differences in general intensity of drug effects were found between groups, suggesting that mystical-type subjective effects, rather than overall intensity of drug effects, were responsible for smoking cessation. Nine of 15 participants (60%) met criteria for “complete” mystical experience. Smoking cessation outcomes were significantly correlated with measures of mystical experience on session days, as well as retrospective ratings of personal meaning and spiritual significance of psilocybin sessions. These results suggest a mediating role of mystical experience in psychedelic-facilitated addiction treatment. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104240746 The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism But now, some researchers are using new technologies to try to understand spiritual experience. They're peering into our brains and studying our bodies to look for circumstantial evidence of a spiritual world. The search is in its infancy, and scientists doubt they will ever be able to prove — or disprove — the existence of God. I spent a year exploring the emerging science of spirituality for my book, Fingerprints of God. One of the questions raised by my reporting: Is an encounter with God merely a chemical reaction? ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Just as logic was always dictating and what I and others have been saying, this nonsense with regards to mystical experiences, is simply a personal subjective experience/hallucination/delusion. I don't need to indulge in drugs to realise that. The term "mystical experience" has become synonymous with the terms "religious experience", spiritual experience and sacred experience. A "religious experience" is a subjective experience which is interpreted within a religious framework. WIKI

A few points....Which have already been made, and which again you have deftly side-stepped and/or ignored. [1] Mystical experiences are not evidence for any god: [2] All the science that is being done is totally speculative, lacking any evidence to support your myth of some form of creator in whatever magical form your imagination conjurs up: [3] The rest is simply philosophical jargon: [4] And finally and again, if there was even the slightest hint that what you claim is true, it would be momentous headlines all round the world, with people falling to there knees and begging forgiveness. I would personally be begging forgiveness in drinking the altar wine behind the altar when I was a hairy arse altar boy! But guess what? That won't happen because all you have done is misinterpreted some philosophical jargon and speculation. Wishful thinking, delusional reactions, fanatical desire in saving face with the fact that science has made any deity superfluous at least as far back as t-10-43 seconds. And personally I do not identify with Atheism or any other labelling. I identify with empirical evidence, observation and experiments and the scientific methodology...certainly not dreams, drug taking, or any other delusional wishful thinking.

Accepting that the obscure text, written by obscure individuals in the bible, is only evidence of gullibility or personal insecurities. As I said previously, it is only evidence that people in that era, due to lack of science, believed hear say that in time some mythical Saviour would walk amongst them.