beecee

Apparently spacetime, the universe, stars, planets, us, are just a fortuitous hicup or fluctuation in the pre BB quantum foam.

In effect the BB was a evolution of space and time [spacetime] as we know them. There was no matter as such. In that first instant the four known forces were combined as one superforce. As the universe/spacetime expanded, pressures and temperatures started to drop, and the superforce started to decouple, gravity first. During this decoupling phase transition, false vacuums were created and excesses of energy went into creating our very first fundamental particles, probably quarks and electrons. The following diagram will help to explain false vacuums during phase transitions....... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum In quantum field theory, a false vacuum is a vacuum which exists at a local minimum of energy and is therefore not truly stable. This is in contrast to a true vacuum, which exists at a global minimum and is stable. A false vacuum may be very long-lived, or metastable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: At 3 minutes post BB the first fundamentals were able to form protons and neutrons as temperatures dropped sufficiently, and the first atomic nuclei were formed. At around 380,000 years post BB temperatures had dropped to around 3000 K which allowed electrons to couple with the atomic nuclei and our first light element/s were created...hydrogen and some helium. After a few hundred million years, huge gas clouds of hydrogen had formed and started to undergo gravitational collapse, until at the cores of these gignatic clouds, nuclear fusion was initiated and our first very very big stars with very short lifespans were born, went supernova and disgorged heavier elements into the universe. These heavier elements along with hydrogen formed more stars and even planets from similar gravitational collapses. That is very roughly the story of the universe from near the beginning to today.

The universe from 10-43 seconds, post BB, and all we see can be explained reasonably and and logically without any need for any deity. God or any deity appears superfluous.

I've got plans to live forever: So far I'm doing OK.

All I see are "what ifs," excuses and flawed opinions as to why continued progress, inevitable advancement, more knowledge, insatiable curiosity, and continued evolution of mankind is and always will be inevitable....................given the time of course.

Scientifically speaking, a Universe from nothing is actually the only definitive answer: Unless something like the quantum foam [which some may see as nothing anyway] has always existed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EilZ4VY5Vs

All valid and good points made. With the last point made by at0mic, re the "opponents" "saying we should just wait until the knowledge and expertise is available for economically viable space colonisation and exploration", if that's all they were saying, it certainly would not have invoked such incredulity from me at least. I have continually made the point that such inevitable progress would happen "in time" and even with such a broad open ended logical claim, neither has favourably acknowledged it and in the main it has been ignored. It seems to me the opponents seem to have some inbuilt opposition to the inevitability of space exploration and the knowledge we would gain and questions that could possibly be answered from such ventures.

As long as we use the correct system of measurements and not confuse metric with Imperial.

Let's forget for the moment the many reasons why we will go to Mars and beyond....Let's instead look at the reasons why we must go to Mars and beyond. Obviously first and foremost the Earth does have a "use by date" Secondly what is the greatest question that we as a species would dearly love to know for certain? Are we alone...is there life elsewhere? ...is there intelligent life elsewhere? How did life actually start? Did life in this solar system originate on Earth?...Or was a form of Panspermia the reason? Finding actual evidence for Abiogenesis...Did Abiogenesis happen more then once in different regions of the universe? These are and will be extraordinary moments for humanity to remember..Just as when Neil uttered those immortal words..."One small step for man: One giant leap for Mankind" Curiosity and the realization of a long sort after dream are the reasons our venture to Mars and beyond will continue and should continue.

And when do you believe that will be achieved? 100 years, 500 years? 1000 years? or do you believe such technology, know how, advance knowledge will never be reached or obtained? Plenty of things including what you mention can go wrong....Plenty of things can go wrong with your car travelling down the highway too: But we'll send probes and robots first, we'll research the problems, we'll implement safety protocol and procedures, before any manned effort...the same as we did in the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs culminating in putting men on the Moon. It's called progress, and even allowing for hiatus periods due to economic and political circumstance, will always move forward, as long as time allows.

In the simplest interpretation, the universe is expanding FTL and inflation did also...spacetime does not have mass and therefor is not inhibited by any speed limit. In more professional terms though, we must be clear on what we mean by the universe expanding FTL....Sean Carroll explains far better then anything I could........ http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/10/13/the-universe-never-expands-faster-than-the-speed-of-light/ extract: "1.The expansion of the universe doesn’t have a “speed.” Really the discussion should begin and end right there. Comparing the expansion rate of the universe to the speed of light is like comparing the height of a building to your weight. You’re not doing good scientific explanation; you’ve had too much to drink and should just go home.The expansion of the universe is quantified by the Hubble constant, which is typically quoted in crazy units of kilometers per second per megaparsec. That’s (distance divided by time) divided by distance, or simply 1/time. Speed, meanwhile, is measured in distance/time. Not the same units! Comparing the two concepts is crazy. Admittedly, you can construct a quantity with units of velocity from the Hubble constant, using Hubble’s law, v = Hd (the apparent velocity of a galaxy is given by the Hubble constant times its distance). Individual galaxies are indeed associated with recession velocities. But different galaxies, manifestly, have different velocities. The idea of even talking about “the expansion velocity of the universe” is bizarre and never should have been entertained in the first place". more at the link......

What the man most certainly is, is one of the greater minds of the 20th century and a Nobel laureate to boot., along with many other achievements.

No physical theory is certain also, as we all know, but some are damn well near certain.....and by the same token to suggest that in time technological advancement is not inevitable, is rather naive to say the least. Irrespective of costs and whether they drop or not [which again in time they will] robotic space exploration and manned exploration will continue, and will continue to go further and undertake more complicated procedures. Probably now and in the near future yes, but again irrespective, it will take place and gradually improve along with available technological advancements.

From memory [someone please correct me if I am wrong] they do similar on the ISS...well partly anyway!

Nice.... We may witness something similar in 2022 http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/colliding-stars-will-light-night-sky-2022

The M/M experiment showed the ether to be invalid simply by the lack of "drag" in a particular direction, by observing that the speed of light did not change with relation to the Earth's motion. The invalidity of any particular hypothesis, does not necessarily effect one way or the other, the validity of another hypothesis. Any hypothesis advances to theoretical stage and is generally accepted, when it best describes our observational and experimental data. I was taught by an Astronomer to dislike the word "prove" or "proven" with regards to physical theories, but well supported theories like GR and the BB/Inflationary model do grow in certainty over time, as they continue to make successful predictions and match further observations. Reality or truth imo is best described by the following video which I have supplied before in other threads: It's only 7.5 minutes long and worth watching.

Here's another interesting realist/optimist.... Mae Jemison: Former NASA Astronaut with 8 honorary doctorates in science and also Principal of the 100 year starship company: https://100yss.org/mission/team

Of course it matters...[1]Human Morality. [2] Exploration and knowledge. [3] International co-operation as in the ISS. The financing of a big space push, while depending on economic and political climate, will happen in time...I just hope it occurs because of our thirst for knowledge and exploration, and is an international effort, rather then a cock waving exercise. Obviously there are many qualified people of the optimistic variety... Marc Millis: Aerospace EngineerNASA Glenn Research Center and https://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1962 https://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=11493 There are of course other respected orginizations that have a vision including http://www.planetaryresources.com/#home-intro

Yes, that was my first thought.

Evolution is as certain as any reasonable thinking person could wish for. Even the Catholic church recognises it. Mathematics is the language of physics, and supports the models that best match our observational and experimental data, rather than unsupported mythical beliefs in magical spaghetti monsters. Our models help us understand, and while strictly not necessarily "truth or reality", model what we see, and make successful predictions.

Of course the aspect of time is relevant! And whether attempts are made now, in the very near future, or a 100, 500, 1000 years hence [I won't go any further than that at this stage] the technological advances made will dictate when that will take place. And commercial aviation is still experimenting with various means that entail going faster then the speed of sound. The demise of the Concord of course after the accident. was more to do with noise issues, low passenger numbers after 9/11, and the high price of oil: Again faster then sound commercial flight may yet again take off. And while there is of course never any guarantees about the future, advances in technology are as close to certain as one could hope for and I would go as far to say again, inevitable. I'm afraid that it appears the only agreement we can have is to disagree on this matter, and as Moontanman mentioned, of course optimism is paramount, and while that optimism appears as strong as ever among those at the coal face, I would suggest that the same optimism is of course tinged with the utmost caution with regards to safety etc, particularly radiation.

An emotional rendition of our second national anthem at a concert in 2008 of which I was one of the 38600 that was in attendance.

Carmen Monarcha:

Carla Maffioletti Heia in den Bergen

André Rieu & Carla Maffioletti - Die Juliska Aus Budapest