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Our means of delving into the atmospheres of extra solar planets, is improving all the time, and JWST will certainly add to this data. Plus of course as mentioned many times, the strict protocol under which this mission will be undertaken, will make reasonable probabilty assessments. But if as per the "thought experiment" microbes exist 5 kms down, would they at all ever be affected, and wouldn't they most probably be comfortable in their evolutionary niche after existing there for a few hundred million years. Also as mentioned, we most likely have already started the probable process of spreading Earth life beyond our solar system, and probably also within. Mars for example. Examples of other places of interest within our own system that potentially may also contain life exist and are/will be explored....Europa, Enceledus, Titan, just to name three. To your OP, an emphatic yes.

https://phys.org/news/2022-02-australia-lucky-country-snakes.html Seven reasons Australia is the lucky country when it comes to snakes: extracts: Australians are actually extremely lucky when it comes to snakes. Here are seven reasons why. 1. Our snakes bolt away from us 2. We have very few snakebite deaths 3. If you do get bitten, you're very unlikely to lose a limb 4. We have great access to excellent antivenom and other treatments 5. We have the world's only snake venom detection kits 6. Snakebites are covered by Medicare 7. Snake venom is actually saving lives The article concludes thus....... Rather than fearing our venomous snakes, let's try seeing them as they are. They pose little risk to us. They flee from us. Their bites can usually be cured quickly. Their venom holds therapeutic promise. And they play a vital role in keeping down the numbers of introduced rats and mice. So let's take a moment to appreciate Australia's wealth of beautiful snakes.

Bingo! So if the captured half won't talk, would it be torture to put the Father ( a big hulking brute) into the jail cell with him?

Don't put yourself down, but being hypocritical is not a good look. And I also answered joigus, the same way I answer any reasonable member whether they agree with me or not. I also have supported everything I say with reputable links, as I understand and accept my own limitations. You simply rattle off your life philosophy and expect others to swallow it. That's the great divide separating us. Yes, certainly with regards to the universe per se. Not with regards to our moral obligation re spreading life in an otherwise universe where we have no evidence of any life off this Earth, at least at this time.

It's always weirdly interesting how any situation/protest/scenario against the "law of the land of that day" does attract the sadists, the bullies, and the emotionally unstable. Also of course in the same vane, the political opportunists. I remember being a part of the anti Vietnam moritorium marches in the 60's as a hairy arse lad, attracting some extreme socialisitic political group, (after casually speaking to one in the march, (unknowingly) and the following door knocking at my parents home where I was living at the time, until I politely told them to f%$# off! The otherwise legitimate anti vaccine and mandatory orders protest marches of recent times all innevitable attracted the conspiracy nuttters as another example. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. How about the situation say, where one half of a duo, who have commited a particulalr horrendous crime is captured, and he is offered a leniant sentence to reveal the where abouts of his partner. And of course as mentioned earleir, I dare say there are also those that would confuse just punishment for a crime, as torture...eg: locked up in jail...in jail and solitary confinement.... And of course the consideration of the parents of a kidnapped child where their whereabouts is unknown. Are they not being emotionally and mentally tortured?

Give me red, white and blue, any day of the week! My NRL football team's colours. All joviality aside, I like yellow, colour of my living room, but also need plenty of natural daylight pouring into a room....doors open, widows open, skylights...curtain pulled aside!

Certainly agree with that.

We both have had the booster also, which thankfully was the reason that our symptoms during the infection were light to non existent.

Well I am retired, but do not neglect any of my household dutues and chores that the better half has set out for me. I post early in the morning, catching up on replies and threads that happened during the night on the other side of the world. A couple of catch ups during the course of the day, and then in the evening until bedtime. And of course during that period I was in two lockdowns and isolated due to having covid along with the Mrs...we are both now negative.

The former leader of the femnist movement in Australia was a sheila named Germaine Greer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer She was known to fight tooth and nail for down trodden women and gained much publicity both here and in the old dart. In recent time though she has changed her opnions somewhat, particularly with the "me too" movement. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/23/germaine-greer-criticises-whingeing-metoo-movement Let me say now, I certainly do not agree with her seemingly revised views on Harvey Weinstein as per the article...."Acknowledging to the Sydney Morning Herald that “what makes it different is when the man has economic power, as Harvey Weinstein has”, Greer said that “if you spread your legs because he said ‘be nice to me and I’ll give you a job in a movie’ then I’m afraid that’s tantamount to consent, and it’s too late now to start whingeing about that”. What Jorden Peterson does or says I don't really give a stuff, ( I really can't stand the bloke) but the question/s that needs to be asked, is has feminisim reached or achieved its goal of equality, and obviously the answer to that is no not fully yet, particularly in wages and such in some industries. But no one can deny it has achieved great deserved success, which has my full backing. Still though, imo at least, there are some feminists who appear drunk with power, and seemingly have a goal of making men second class citizens. I call them feminazis. Can I relay a true story? A couple of years ago while heading into the city on a bus, I was comfortably seated as the Bus gathered more and more passengers. Eventually a woman hopped on around 40ish and had to stand. I automatically had my learned good education and respect for woman that was instilled into me in the fifties engaged and I stood up for her. She looked at me with total amazement and refused to take the seat. After some prompting, she decided to sit down, and questioned me about it, saying in all here years, she had never had anyone stand up for her. This taking a good thing too far is also evident in political correctness with regards to speech.

I leave being obtuse to you, along with your other known qualities. There you go again with your obtuseness qualitiy! 🤣 I have never said a purpose does not exist. Project Genesis has a purpose...to seed an otherwise barren, sterile planet. That is science, irrespective of the likelhood of the results never being known within a reasonable time frame.

Bingo! I see an example of two pedophiles and one is captured, if he won't reveal the where-abouts of the other what is the solution, if all other chanells have been used? How about some mad bomber has a bomb hidden in some crowded place and won't talk? And the question, what is torture? How about simply locking someone up until they talk? Is that torture? How about the parents of the little child kidnapped by the two pedos? Is it torture for those parents sitting, waiting for the captured one to reveal the where-abouts of the other? I don't actually know. Additional question: Would it be torture if we locked the Father of the kidnapped toddler up with the captured kidnapper to have his way?

A great American C+ W singer that died way too young

https://phys.org/news/2010-02-professor-moral-obligation-seed-universe.html (PhysOrg.com) -- Eventually, the day will come when life on Earth ends. Whether that’s tomorrow or five billion years from now, whether by nuclear war, climate change, or the Sun burning up its fuel, the last living cell on Earth will one day wither and die. But that doesn’t mean that all is lost. What if we had the chance to sow the seeds of terrestrial life throughout the universe, to settle young planets within developing solar systems many light-years away, and thus give our long evolutionary line the chance to continue indefinitely? According to Michael Mautner, Research Professor of Chemistry at Virginia Commonwealth University, seeding the universe with life is not just an option, it’s our moral obligation. As members of this planet’s menagerie, and a consequence of nearly 4 billion years of evolution, humans have a purpose to propagate life. After all, whatever else life is, it necessarily possesses an incessant drive for self-perpetuation. And the idea isn’t just fantasy: Mautner says that “directed panspermia” missions can be accomplished with present technology. “We have a moral obligation to plan for the propagation of life, and even the transfer of human life to other solar systems which can be transformed via microbial activity, thereby preparing these worlds to develop and sustain complex life,” Mautner explained to PhysOrg.com. “Securing that future for life can give our human existence a cosmic purpose.” more.......

I wasn't specifically answering mistermack, I was simply quoting Ken Fabian's post and while agreeing, adding the thought that if we are going to err, it is best to err on the side of caution, considering what is at stake. https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Droughts, bushfires etc do seem to be increasing in frequency and severity, and from your own link re drought..... "Australia has experienced a marked decrease in precipitation levels since 1994.[5] Deficiencies in northern Australia increased in 2013–14, leading to an extended drought period in certain parts of Queensland. Between 2017 and 2019, severe drought developed once more across much of eastern and inland Australia including Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria, also extending into parts of South and Western Australia"

You have your answer. But why does there need to be a pay off? The purpose, you already know, so again stop being so obtuse. Going over the same thing again and again, when you have been given answers and reasons, does nothing for your reputation or life philosophy. You already have that answer also. 😏 We will do what we can, and what we are capable of. Planets don't want...the universe doesn't want. The project is useful, scientific, and morally justified for the many reasons given. No I understood Carl as well as yourself. I quoted the whole pale blue dot for a reason, as did Sagan. You chose to take one part out of context, and that part is what you have been running with, and have been smiting and wringing your hands re the human race for as long as you have been posting, whether relevant or not. Really, when will you understand that I am not in the least troubled or concerned about your rather silly pedant nonsense. Again Earth is the only known planet that contains life, and we are the only known lifeform to be able to undertake space faring and contemplate life, the universe, panspermia, and anything else you care to name. That is fact. Not for someone who is pretentiously passive and wears it as a badge of honour. For normal folk we do these things "not because they are easy, but because they are hard" to quote JFK. We weren't born to stagnate on this fart arse little blue orb, and it is within our DNA to seek adventure, do science, climb mountains, do science, go to the Moon, do science, explore the unknown, do science, and go where man has not gone before and again, you guessed it, do science. That will continue through scientific undertakings, including protecting the planet and undoing damage already done rather then just rhetoric and talking about it, plus the sheer need for adventure and going where we havn't gone before. We need to spread our seed, and will undertake that when conditions are right and we find a suitable known sterile planet. That's about the size of it, (thankfully) and will certainly continue. And again, all that has been answered and dealt with in detail, more than once.

There is a iconic Australian poem written by Banjo Paterson called "The Man from Snowy River" which is mandatory study in primary English classes. The poem was put to music by Slim Dusty, and also a movie made in the 80's Here it is put to music.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW7rgnNqgjE

Because we can...because it is science, despite probably never realizing a result within reasonable time scales...also as a future probable home in case Earth meets its demise, and lastly but not leastly, because it is morally acceptable considering protocols. So then imagine the following probable scenario..."The purpose of the Genesis project is to offer terrestrial life alternative evolutionary pathways on those exoplanets that are potentially habitable but yet lifeless… If you had good conditions, simple life can develop very fast, but complex life will have a hard time. At least on Earth, it took a very long time for complex life to arrive. The Cambrian Explosion only happened about 500 million years ago, roughly 4 billion years after Earth was formed. If we give planets the opportunity to fast forward evolution, we can give them the chance to have their own Cambrian Explosions." The purpose of a Genesis-type mission would therefore be to offer extra-solar planets an evolutionary short-cut, skipping the billions of years necessary for the basic life forms to evolve and moving directly to the point where complex organisms begin to diversify. This would be especially helpful on planets where life could thrive, but not emerge on its own". More strawmen, or just plain old obtuseness. The Genesis project will proceed under strict protocol, and science. JWST may offer even more data and science on a candidate planet. If that data is wrong then all we do is help the process along if science has missed something. You see that's the beauty of science...it is forever a discipline in eternal progress. If there are no microbes as per data, then Genesis may help kick start some new evolutionary life or pathway. If there are microbes that have been missed, again we have kick started a probable new evolutionary pathway. Killing a few million bacteria is acceptable if some new evolutionary pathway is fast tracked. Afterall we kill bacteria and microbes all the time...everyday, every moment without a single thought. I fail to see any problem, particularly in the "thought experiment" given, these microbes were 5 kms down. Again the science of probability over possibility. It isn't relevant. But it was you that raised the spoiling of the planet etc. 😉 I simply agreed but pointed out that we are getting better, and some of us are offering more then rhetoric to help solve our Earth based problems. I was simply pointing out your forever off topic crticism of the human race. That race you and I belong to. That's nice, considering there is only a known example of one. That's your prerogative. And as explained, we have probably already done it. It is still possible for Titan to hold some form of life...and we do have water on the Moon, so it to may possibly have some underground basic life, but I would suggest the probability is low. Just curious, while I accept Titan as a great example within our system,why do you then see it as "contaminating" when it evolves another system. We will be following strict protocol. Why do you see it as egotistical? Any scientific experiment is generally at great cost. I'm sure we would still have knuckelheads that would poo poo the ISS, or the HST, or LHC, or the new JWST. Do we have to again go through the great benefit science is to mankind, as opposed to the great costs? How much has the current covid accepted protocols and lockdowns and border closures cost us? How many more lives would it have cost us if we ignored the scientific medical advice?

Good question: My guess would be if and when Earth was confronted with an extinction event, that these seeds would be picked up enroute to a new goldilocks planet, capable of supporting life as we know it. Yeah, have heard of that, and I understand it isn't the only one. But I also understand that these are specifically plant life and essential crops. Is that correct? I'm probably inclined to agree with you, in the relative short term at least. Would our octopuses friends take over as the new dominant species?☺️ Or would the planet be facing another "Planet of the Apes" like era? Or would things just remain as they are, without humanity forcing its will upon the life that is left. Perhaps a scenario like the words from that song, "Well the bear will be gentle And the wolves will be tame And the lion shall lay down by the lamb, oh yes And the beasts from the wild Shall be lit by a child" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VQS7e27pDw 😉

Join the club! The east coast of Australia over the last 4 or 5 years has gone through horredous drought, the worst most catastrophic bushfires in recorded memory, and now El Nino! and floods. I fully support the climate change models and scientific predictions, based on the evidence. But even if the evidence was slightly "wishy washy"(which it obviously isn't) and even if it was less then 100% certain, and only a smidgin of doubt, isn't the proposed worst scenario consequences, a reason to understand that if we are going to err, we must err on the side of caution? I just recently renewed my driver's license, and in NSW once you reach 75 years of age, you must undergo a full medical, which I passed with flying colours. After thinking somewhat, I decided voluntarilly to go on a restricted license limiting me to only drive within 10 kms of my home. We now rely mostly on public transport. A small reduction in my carbon foot print.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1311/1311.2558.pdf Seeding Life on the Moons of the Outer Planets via Lithopanspermia: Abstract: Material from the surface of a planet can be ejected into space by a large impact, and could carry primitive life forms with it. We performed n-body simulations of such ejecta to determine where in the Solar System rock from Earth and Mars may end up. We find that, in addition to frequent transfer of material among the terrestrial planets, transfer of material from Earth and Mars to the moons of Jupiter and Saturn is also possible, but rare. We expect that such transfer is most likely during the Late Heavy Bombardment or during the next one or two billion years. At this time, the icy moons were warmer and likely had little or no icy shell to prevent meteorites from reaching their liquid interiors. We also note significant rates of re-impact in the first million years after ejection. This could re-seed life on a planet after partial or complete sterilization by a large impact, which would aid the survival of early life during the Late Heavy Bombardment. Conclusions: We find that transfer of rock capable of carrying life has likely occurred from both Earth and Mars to all of the terrestrial planets in the solar system and Jupiter, and transfer from Earth to Saturn is also probable. Additionally, we find smaller but significant probabilities of transfer to the moons of Jupiter and Saturn from Earth, and from Mars to the moons of Jupiter. These estimates are dependent on the number of rocks assumed ejected from the planets of origin. Our results indicate that transfer of life to these moons cannot be ruled out, and searches for life on these objects should keep in mind the necessity of determining whether life arose independently or descended from common ancestors to Earth life. Any life found there cannot be assumed to be of independent origin. The probability of life surviving such a journey or finding a tenable environment on arrival is beyond the scope of our research. However, we note that studies of Titan, Europa, and Callisto all indicate significant liquid water oceans beneath the surface (Khurana et al., 1998; Lorenz et al., 2008). Europa currently presents the thinnest surface ice layer, providing less of a barrier for life to eventually find its way through, especially when considering the “chaos regions” that indicate recent partial melting. It appears regions of the ice sheet sometimes break into large chunks separated by liquid water, which later refreezes. Any meteorites lying on top of the ice sheet in a region when this occurs would stand a chance of falling through. Additionally, the moons are thought to have been significantly warmer in the not-too-distant past. Titan currently has a roughly 50 km thick crust, but the moon only cooled enough to form this shell after four billion years (Trobie et al., 2006), before which it had only a few kilometers of methane clathrate over the surface, allowing a significant time in which life could have more easily penetrated into the liquid water ocean. Jupiter's moons are also believed to have been significantly warmer in the past, both due to residual heat of formation and their slow outward migration, making them previously subjected to stronger tidal heating from Jupiter. Ultimately, we conclude that the possibility of transfer of life from the inner Solar System to outer moons cannot be ruled out based on current knowledge. Any planned missions to search for life on Titan or the moons of Jupiter will have to consider whether any biological material found represents an independent origin, rather than another branch in the family tree populated by Earth life. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientists-335-million-seed-sperm-egg-samples-moon-noahs-ark/ Scientists want to send 335 million seed, sperm and egg samples to the moon to create a lunar Noah's Ark: Scientists are pulling inspiration from Noah's Ark in a new lunar proposal that they call a "global insurance policy." They hope to send an ark to the moon, filled with 335 million sperm and egg samples, in case a catastrophe happens on Earth. Instead of two of every animal, the solar-powered moon ark would cryogenically store frozen seed, spore, sperm and egg samples from some 6.7 million Earth species. University of Arizona researcher Jekan Thanga and a group of his students proposed the concept in a paper presented during the IEEE Aerospace Conference this week. more at link................

That's OK, and please note that it is you creating strawmen about how we are trashing Earth, not caring about those less fortunate, and of course your silly unwarranted pedant with regards to Sagan and his excellent narrative. I mean if ever there was any scraping the bottom of the barrel, that was it! You do understand that this thread and the idea of reverse panspermia, has already gone off track many times due to strawmen? And the amount of possibilty claims, over scientific probabilities is well, quite telling. The point is that when the time is right, and the engineering is up to reasonable expectations, seeding another body that is sterile according to our data, will happen. In fact as I have stated a couple of times already, there are now 5 craft that have either left our solar system, or are about to leave, that most probably are carrying microbrial stuff to who knows where...planet, moon, planetary accretion disk. Anyway, we'll try another couple of questions......When life first rose on Earth through abiogenesis, what were conditions like? Would those conditions be able to support life today or would it have been too toxic? Second question: Why do you believe that if we find a planet that according to the data is sterile, and has no obvious idigenous life to protect, and conditions such that any probablity of abiogenesis is low, that we should not help that process along by means of a project like Genesis? eg: Mars was once "transiently habitable" but obviously not now...https://phys.org/news/2019-01-seeding-milky-life-genesis-missions.html That article and link concludes thus......."Invariably, the issues of extra-terrestrial life and planetary exploration is a controversial one, and one that we are not likely to resolve anytime soon. One thing is for sure though: as our efforts to explore the solar system and galaxy continue, it is an issue that we cannot avoid". It just seems to me that your view of humanity is such, that you don't believe we should survive, or that we as a species, should be smited and put out of our misery? You seem to ignore that while we are trashing our planet, being cruel to others, and ignoring those less fortunate then ourselves, we are doing so less and becoming more aware of our actions, with the first Sunday in March and the clean up Australia inititive, that is becoming more popular, with more active participants. We are improving in other words. Shouldn't you drop the "smiting"and give the only known space faring civilisation another chance?

Did I say anything about him being more then a man? Are you creating another fragile strawman? And while like any man, he may at times be wrong, I'm not aware though. Do you have a reference with regards to him being wrong about a particular brand of science? He was certainly right about extraordinary claims ( as per Alien controlled UAP's/UFO's) requiring extraordinary evidence, and of course his absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence. Or perhaps you just fail to understand? Think relativity. Or is this also another strawman? Perhaps you two pacifists should get a room! 😉 NB: Oh, and Peterkin, you forgot to answer my previous post about empty rhetoric, and getting down and dirty with regards to us spoiling the planet and caring for those less fortunate.

Darn!! he forgot to check with you with regards to your pretentious pedant!🥱 No, he was speaking of cosmological scales. Our privileged position, at this time, from our point of view is obviously we are special for the reasons stated. And I'm sure he would agree with project Genesis, taken with the accepted protocol when eventually we have the conditions to tackle it. Perhaps as an extension of this thread, you may like to state what you actually do to reduce trashing this planet, and how you help your less fortunate fellow man. I mean that's far better then unsupported rhetoric, isn't it? We have in Australia, https://urbanest.com.au/what-is-clean-up-australia-day-and-how-you-can-get-involved/ and I have been an active participant for the last 22 years, 23 years after the next one being in this March. Oh, and I'm 77 by the way. Now you could go on one of your raving rampages about such things should be everyday, and I do my part on that to. Would you like to know what else myself and my Mrs do with regards to less fortunate, instead of just pretentiously blabbering about the wrongs and evils of society? What are you doing to help? Of course he was right, that's why I respect the man immensley.

Thank you for that correction. It would have created so much confusion!!! 🤣Especially when I said, " We are the only planet known to support life." Yes, as I have been saying for yonks. But please keep in mind the mote of dust floating in the sunbeam, when comparing to the vastness of space and the universe. Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known. — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994