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Since at this time, this planet is the only known one to harbour life, and since we certainly know of others that are probably condusive to life, I see it as reasonable to conduct the Genesis experiment, when we are able. I'm trying to instill the knowledge of the difference between what is possible and what is probable. As I mentioned earlier, (here or elsewhere) one of the possibilities when the Manhatten project was starting, was igniting the atmophere. The probablity was extremely low though, as opposed to possibility, and that has been borne out thousands of times now. Any journey starts with baby steps, and we have achieved that with six Moon landings, countless robotic craft sent to all corners of the solar system and some now beyond, not to mention, having a presence in space everyday for the last 23 years. I put it to you, that you are being rather uneccessarily pedantic by seemingly assuming that those facts dont count as "space faring" and that we will not in time go further when technology allows. eg: boots on Mars in the near future and then beyond and in the course of time, who knows? stellar travel etc. But I understand that also fails to gel with you. 😉 We were not born to stagnate in this fart arse little blue orb! The reverse may also apply, with your own beliefs, in this and of course other areas. Let's be clear...yes I see project Genesis to be a useful scientific endeavour, when we are capable of it, and the time is right. Probably on a known sterile planet that is capable of supporting life but where Abiogenesis has not as yet taken hold, as it obviously did on Earth. To class the support of such a scientific project as psychological and/or illogical, is bordering on psychotic and illogic reasonings.

🥱Or more sensibly, no person should own a gun. Is that all you have? ☺️ Stop being so obtuse. https://www.britannica.com/science/science science, any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentation. In general, a science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws. Most of us know what science is...therefor science speaks for itself. https://www.mmm-online.com/home/opinion/letting-the-science-speak-for-itself-how-scientists-are-holding-our-virtual-hands-through-the-pandemic-fear-and-confusion/ Letting the science speak for itself: How scientists are holding our virtual hands through the pandemic fear and confusion https://www.icr.org/article/letting-science-speak-for-itself Letting the Science Speak for Itself: "Geology will survive creationist undermining," according to a recent commentary by Steven Newton in New Scientist. Newton is Programs and Policy Director for the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), a nonprofit advocacy group based in Oakland, California, that is dedicated to censoring academic freedom and promoting evolution-only teaching in public schools. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Thankfully, most would disagree vehemently with you. No, science is the discipline encompassing the systematic study of the universe and all in it through, observation and experiment. The scientific methodology itself is the set of tools you mention. No, it's the humans that chose to use the scientific knowledge for evil that is faulty. With regards to the planet, science has actually reversed much of the harm done by man, in many sciences such as meteorology, satellites surveillance, improved agriculture, climate change recognition, general biodiversity, electric cars, solar panels, the list is endless and I'm less than impressed that you chose not to recognise such irrefutable examples of the benefits of science, in favour of your questionable pessimism, based on your questionable philosophy. I as a human being and a non spokesman for science, (it speaks for itself) am of the opinion, that we are obliged to spread microbrial seeds to other potential habitable worlds, on probable sterile worlds, that as yet have not, and may not experience Abiogenesis, other then with our help.

Your excuses and your views are going from the silly to the ridiculious. Contaminating the galaxy!!!😅 We are space faring species, and as long as we survive, we'll go further and further, and through projects like Genesis, plant microbrial seeds on otherwise sterile planets. We can predict many things generally via the wise methodology of probability over possibility, and of course even now, we are starting to probe extra solar planets atmospheres (if present) and the JWST will surely add clarity and certainty to that. Remembering of course that this is a new science....... https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0148 https://www.seti.org/exoplanetary-atmospheres-and-how-understand-them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_atmosphere#:~:text=There is evidence that extrasolar,and atmospheric chemistry and dynamics. Yep, life certainly can be brutish and nasty, but by the same token we are talking about sterile planets, and would certainly have some idea as to the conditions on neighbouring planets and moons, based on many things. The chances of life for example on a "hot Jupiter"extra solar planet is probably non existent. (remember the possibility over probability lesson?) As yet we know of no life existing beyond Earth, and when we finally have some confirmation of that existing (possibly within our own solar system) it will almost certainly be microbrial, certainly no space faring octopuses! ???Obviously. So? Science's priority is protecting life and extending it when and where possible. Science's responsibility is doing that via the scientific method. On entitlement.... https://www.aaas.org/programs/scientific-responsibility-human-rights-law/resources/article-15/about#:~:text=Article 15 of the International,indispensable for scientific research%2C and Article 15 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) requires states to: recognize the right of everyone to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications conserve, develop, and diffuse science respect the freedom indispensable for scientific research, and recognize the benefits of international contacts and co-operation in the scientific field. As a program devoted to mobilizing science and scientists to advance human rights, SRHRL is committed to promoting Article 15 (ICESCR) and engaging scientists in that effort. The premise of the “Article 15” Project is that, just as governments are expected to adopt measures to respect the rights to freedom of expression and a fair trial, so too are they obligated to uphold the right to the benefits of scientific progress. To date, however, governments have largely ignored their Article 15 obligations and neither the human rights nor the scientific communities have brought their skills and influential voices to bear on the promotion and application of this right in practice. SRHRL believes that the realization of Article 15 requires that scientists take up this neglected right. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope that meets with your approval.

Likewise, I certainly do not share your faith/philosophy in many things. Sure I understand, do you? The universe has an expected lifetime measured in hundreds of trillions of years. How does a billion compare to that? A great man once said words to the effect, "Sit on a hot stove for 1 minute and it seems like an hour: Sit with a hot blonde for an hour, and it seems like a minute; That's relativity. Your obsession with Earth based ideologies are clouding your sensibilities. As a species, and in our exploratory efforts, we have done many terrible/aweful things. We have just celebrated Australia Day, mainly the success of a great nation in a short space of time (nationhood was achieved in 1901) At the same time, we also acknowledge the nation's first people, the oldest known existing culture in the world, and the forceful displacement of many of them, including outright murder and extinction in some areas. But as wrong and as distasteful as their displacement was, it was another time, and much has been done to repare that damage, while recognising there is still more to do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iOMy9Tg9Bg That's not what project Genesis is all about. What is the purpose of Project Genesis? "Exoplanets come in all sizes, temperatures and compositions. The purpose of the Genesis project is to offer terrestrial life alternative evolutionary pathways on those exoplanets that are potentially habitable but yet lifeless". What worlds would be targeted? "The prime candidates are habitable “oxygen planets” around M-dwarfs like TRAPPIST-1. It is very likely that the oxygen-rich primordial atmosphere of these planets will have prevented abiogenesis in first place, that is the formation of life. Our galaxy could potentially harbor billions of habitable but lifeless oxygen planets". :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Simply put, the Genesis project assumes life is good and the more the merrier. Of course as we develop further into a space faring species, I fully support the Star Trek prime directive. 😉 Since Earth does have a use by date, and is so far the only planet we know of with life, I see such a project as forward thinking, and the implementation of science at its best.

Nup, its still science for the reasons explained. from previous link... "The prime candidates are habitable “oxygen planets” around M-dwarfs like TRAPPIST-1. It is very likely that the oxygen-rich primordial atmosphere of these planets will have prevented abiogenesis in first place, that is the formation of life. Our galaxy could potentially harbor billions of habitable but lifeless oxygen planets. Nowadays, astronomers are looking for planets around M-stars. These are very different from planets around Sun-like stars. Once a star forms, it takes a certain amount of time to contract to the point where fusion begins, and it starts to produce energy. For the Sun, this took 10 million years, which is very fast. For stars like TRAPPIST-1, it would take 100 million to 1 billion years. Then they have to contract to dissipate their initial heat". <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simply put, the Genesis project assumes life is good and the more the merrier. Of course as we develop further into a space faring species, I fully support the Star Trek prime directive. 😉

Have seen article saying it will see back as far as 13 billion years and the formation of our first stars.

ET doesn't need to phone.We already are close to deciphering atmospheric content of extra solar planets, and the JWST will certainly add to that. And no mention was made of any advanced species evolving. This is a scientific experiment ( that was ignorantly denied) that may be undertaken...to deny that it is a scientific experiment is silly. "The Genesis mission is furthermore unique in the sense that the actual cruising velocity is of minor importance. It could be launched with the help of suitable beams of directed energy and decelerated at arrival by time consuming passive means like magnetic sails. We hence believe that the Genesis project opens a new venue for interstellar missions and for the unfolding of life in our galactic surroundings." . We do experiments because we need to gain knowledge on the workings of a particular area of science. A scientific experiment is designed to test an hypothesis. In essence, a scientific experiment involves a series of steps to either validate or reject an hypothesis. They are done everyday. That is what science is all about. https://www.universetoday.com/137981/genesis-project-using-robotic-gene-factories-seed-galaxy-life/ extract: What is the purpose of Project Genesis? Exoplanets come in all sizes, temperatures and compositions. The purpose of the Genesis project is to offer terrestrial life alternative evolutionary pathways on those exoplanets that are potentially habitable but yet lifeless. The basic philosophy of most scientists nowadays is that simple life is common in the universe and complex life is rare. We don’t know that for sure, but at the moment, that is the consensus. If you had good conditions, simple life can develop very fast, but complex life will have a hard time. At least on Earth, it took a very long time for complex life to arrive. The Cambrian Explosion only happened about 500 million years ago, roughly 4 billion years after Earth was formed. If we give planets the opportunity to fast forward evolution, we can give them the chance to have their own Cambrian Explosions. What worlds would be targeted? The prime candidates are habitable “oxygen planets” around M-dwarfs like TRAPPIST-1. It is very likely that the oxygen-rich primordial atmosphere of these planets will have prevented abiogenesis in first place, that is the formation of life. Our galaxy could potentially harbor billions of habitable but lifeless oxygen planets. Nowadays, astronomers are looking for planets around M-stars. These are very different from planets around Sun-like stars. Once a star forms, it takes a certain amount of time to contract to the point where fusion begins, and it starts to produce energy. For the Sun, this took 10 million years, which is very fast. For stars like TRAPPIST-1, it would take 100 million to 1 billion years. Then they have to contract to dissipate their initial heat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia#Accidental_panspermia extract: Mathematician Jason Guillory in his 2008 analysis of 12C/13C isotopic ratios of organic compounds found in the Murchison meteorite indicates a non-terrestrial origin for these molecules rather than terrestrial contamination. Biologically relevant molecules identified so far include uracil (an RNA nucleobase), and xanthine.[85][86] These results demonstrate that many organic compounds which are components of life on Earth were already present in the early Solar System and may have played a key role in life's origin. In August 2009, NASA scientists identified one of the fundamental chemical building-blocks of life (the amino acid glycine) in a comet for the first time. In August 2011, a report, based on NASA studies with meteorites found on Earth, was published suggesting building blocks of DNA (adenine, guanine and related organic molecules) may have been formed extraterrestrially in outer space. [89][90] In October 2011, scientists reported that cosmic dust contains complex organic matter ("amorphous organic solids with a mixed aromatic-aliphatic structure") that could be created naturally, and rapidly, by stars.[91][92] One of the scientists suggested that these complex organic compounds may have been related to the development of life on Earth and said that, "If this is the case, life on Earth may have had an easier time getting started as these organics can serve as basic ingredients for life. In August 2012, and in a world first, astronomers at Copenhagen University reported the detection of a specific sugar molecule, glycolaldehyde, in a distant star system. The molecule was found around the protostellar binary IRAS 16293-2422, which is located 400 light years from Earth.[93][94] Glycolaldehyde is needed to form ribonucleic acid, or RNA, which is similar in function to DNA. This finding suggests that complex organic molecules may form in stellar systems prior to the formation of planets, eventually arriving on young planets early in their formation. In 2013, the Atacama Large Millimeter Array (ALMA Project) confirmed that researchers have discovered an important pair of prebiotic molecules in the icy particles in interstellar space (ISM). The chemicals, found in a giant cloud of gas about 25,000 light-years from Earth in ISM, may be a precursor to a key component of DNA and the other may have a role in the formation of an important amino acid. Researchers found a molecule called cyanomethanimine, which produces adenine, one of the four nucleobases that form the "rungs" in the ladder-like structure of DNA

Understood, but in reality both. https://www.sciencefocus.com/future-technology/fusion-power-future/ "In June 2021, China’s Experimental Advanced Superconducting Tokamak (EAST) reactor maintained a plasma for 101 seconds at 120,000,000°C. Before that, the record was 20 seconds. Ultimately, a fusion reactor would need to sustain the plasma indefinitely – or at least for eight-hour ‘pulses’ during periods of peak electricity demand. A real game-changer for tokamaks has been the magnets used to produce the magnetic field. “We know how to make magnets that generate a very high magnetic field from copper or other kinds of metal, but you would pay a fortune for the electricity. It wouldn’t be a net energy gain from the plant,” says Luce". ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: It would be great if finally after so long, success was finally imminent.

Who said you would never see the results? And who said it wasn't science? You understand that science is also about experimentation, as well as observation? Ever heard of the "Genesis Project"? Do you know we have discovered more then 5000 extra solar planets? https://www.universetoday.com/137981/genesis-project-using-robotic-gene-factories-seed-galaxy-life/ Hope that helps. You appear rather confused. We do experiments because we need to gain knowledge on the workings of a particular area of science. A scientific experiment is designed to test an hypothesis. In essence, a scientific experiment involves a series of steps to either validate or reject an hypothesis. They are done everyday. That is what science is all about. Faith (as per religious faith) in reality (as you have shown) rejects scientific evidence and facts. I hope that also helps. Well said. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10509-016-2911-0.pdf Developing ecospheres on transiently habitable planets: the genesis project: Abstract: It is often presumed, that life evolves relatively fast on planets with clement conditions, at least in its basic forms, and that extended periods of habitability are subsequently needed for the evolution of higher life forms. Many planets are however expected to be only transiently habitable. On a large set of otherwise suitable planets life will therefore just not have the time to develop on its own to a complexity level as it did arise on earth with the cambrian explosion. The equivalent of a cambrian explosion may however have the chance to unfold on transiently habitable planets if it would be possible to fast forward evolution by 3–4 billion years (with respect to terrestrial timescales). We argue here, that this is indeed possible when seeding the candidate planet with the microbial lifeforms, bacteria and unicellular eukaryotes alike, characterizing earth before the cambrian explosion. An interstellar mission of this kind, denoted the ‘Genesis project’, could be carried out by a relatively low-cost robotic microcraft equipped with a on-board gene laboratory for the in situ synthesis of the microbes. We review here our current understanding of the processes determining the timescales shaping the geo-evolution of an earth-like planet, the prospect of finding Genesis candidate planets and selected issues regarding the mission layout. Discussing the ethical aspects connected with a Genesis mission, which would be expressively not for human benefit, we will also touch the risk that a biosphere incompatibility may arise in the wake of an eventual manned exploration of a second earth. Conclusions: Today’s scientific environment is made up by a diverse mix of emerging and mature fields, characterized respectively by swift and lackluster rates of progress (Gros 2012). The sluggish progress of traditional space launching technologies (Ragab et al. 2015) contrast here, e.g., with the rapid advances in synthetic biology (Stano and Luisi 2013; Caspi and Dekker 2014). Transformative concepts are hence critical for reigniting innovation in science and technology time and again. It has been proposed in this context(Benford 2013), that robotic interstellar missions of low-weight crafts accelerated by beams of directed energy will become realizable, both on technical grounds and financially, in the near future (Gilster 2015; Worden et al. 2016). At the same time we are discovering that planetary habitability isn’t an all-or-nothing feature characterizing exoplanets (Güdel et al. 2014). Our galaxy is expected in particular to teem with planets which are in part habitable, but for which the clement conditions do not last long enough for higher life forms to evolve on their own. Reversing the argument we have pointed out in this study that complex life may emerge also on transiently habitable exoplanets whenever the extraordinary long time it took earth to develop eukaryotic cells could be leapfrogged. We have argued furthermore that this endeavor could be achieved by a light-weight interstellar craft using a robotic gene laboratory for the seeding the target exoplanet with a brew of in situ synthesized microbes. By the end of the mission, which we call the Genesis project, a precambrian and hopefully thriving biosphere of unicellular organisms would flourish on the candidate planet. Complex life in the form of multicellular animals and plants will evolve autonomously at a later state once the photosynthetically produced oxygen has had the time to accumulate in the atmosphere. One of the key issues remaining to be settled at this stage regards the selection procedure for target planets. Remote sensing of exo-planetary biosignatures from earth is possible (Des Marais et al. 2002), albeit only to a certain degree. An even more daring task would be to actually prove that a world is uninhabited (Persson 2014). It is hence clear that the final decision to go ahead must be taken autonomously by the on-board artificial intelligence. This may seem an imprudent strategy nowadays, but possibly not so in a few decades. The Genesis mission is furthermore unique in the sense that the actual cruising velocity is of minor importance. It could be launched with the help of suitable beams of directed energy and decelerated at arrival by time consuming passive means like magnetic sails. We hence believe that the Genesis project opens a new venue for interstellar missions and for the unfolding of life in our galactic surroundings.

My point is that much of this so called history is obscure...like Authur and his Knights. And of course the beliefs of the day were driven by lack of scientific knowledge. Not at all. I have absolutely nothing against religious people, or religion. My one and only Mrs who I have been married to for 43 years is highly religious. I'm just not sure how one can quote history as facts, when the period was so obscure. If I put myself in the shoes of the people of the day, with the same lack of scientific knowledge, yes perhaps I may have even been one of his Apostles...who's to really know. But hey, if I'm treading on some toes here, then my apologies, I 'll leave you to it. Yes, we have them still around today with these covid deniers. They also have reasons, albeit wrong reasons.

Don't be silly, who said it would never yield results? Actually, its your 'life philosophy" that's pissing into the wind. I prefer science. 😉

My Mrs had an allergic reaction with an anesthetic process one time. thankfully that is now noted and on her medical record for future references. Many medical procedures may affect a small percentage of people, including vaccines. Overall though, we all still insist on the best medical treatment if and when we are backed into a corner. Both of us had two doses of AZ without any problems. All potential people after a vaccination, (at least in my country) are asked to answer a series of health questions, that will highlight any small risk. The main factors to consider are the health advice I would think. It is also mandatory for teachers in my state to be double vaccinated, before school starts next week. In fact consideration is currently being assessed to include the booster in that. Bingo! Yeah, its funny that, we have vaccines for infants and kids and if they havn't had them, they are refused entry to kindergarten in some places. It seems the small noisy minority are still fixated with the idiocy of Trump, and the conspiracies of Qanon, and evil nature of anything authoritive. It's Australia Day tomorrow and I will be at Kurnell, the landing place of Captain James Cook in 1770, for initial celebrations, then up to my local club at Bondi, where thsankfully only fully vaxxed are allowed in. Let me finish with "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...or the one"

Just to elaborate and extend those thoughts more...... Terra-forming a Planet: https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/goddard/2018/mars-terraforming "Mars Terraforming Not Possible Using Present-Day Technology" Relativistic travel/speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_rocket There is no known technology capable of accelerating a rocket to relativistic velocities. Relativistic rockets require enormous advances in spacecraft propulsion, energy storage, and engine efficiency which may or may not ever be possible. Nuclear pulse propulsion could theoretically achieve 0.1c using current known technologies, but would still require many engineering advances to achieve this. Dyson Sphere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere#Feasibility Although such megastructures are theoretically possible, building a stable Dyson sphere system is currently far beyond humanity's engineering capacity. The number of craft required to obtain, transmit, and maintain a complete Dyson sphere exceeds present-day industrial capabilities. space elevator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator Available materials are not strong enough to make an Earth space elevator practical.[4][5][6] Some sources have speculated that future advances in carbon nanotubes (CNTs) could lead to a practical design.[2][7][8] Other sources have concluded that CNTs will never be strong enough. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Never say never, but at least not for quite a while! I will be happy if concrete evidence of life off this Earth is finally found, and we have boots on Mars before I kick the bucket. I can then die a happy little vegemite!😁

Is it? You appear to be making excuses for them. Doesn't affect me one way or the other, but if we call a spade a spade, it is certainly relevant in determining that such faith in Jesus is just plain ordinary unscientific myth. Obviously. 🥱 They ( a great number of them) prefer that warm, fuzzy, inner comforting feeling, and knowing they can go out and practise their fornication and then come back and all is forgiven! Lead by the fear of the finality of death

Some scientific applications that are always going to prove difficult to obtain, if not impossible, at least for a hundred years or thereabouts.....space elevator: Terra-forming a Planet: Relativistic travel/speed and a Dyson sphere.

I stand by my reasoning. I experienced it as a child, and I have spoke to others about it. Note carefully, I did say "the majority" not all. Not sure though why the others would accept something for which there is no evidence, over the evidence of science, other then as I suggested, that fear of the finality of death. Or is it simply their faith in the accuracy and details of the bible?

Bingo!!! Hmmm...Of course it is as Crockduck suggested: the necessity of faith/spirituality is the lack of (scientific) evidence. The less (scientific) evidence the more faith/spirituality you must have. The more (scientific) evidence the less faith/spirituality you need. (with a couple of additions of my own just to clarifiy) Of course it is! That's why you need faith and to hell with the scientific evidence, or lack thereof. Religion is needed by the majority out of fear of the evidenced supported facts of the finality of death. That scares the bejesus out of many. They prefer that warm, fuzzy, inner comforting feeling, and knowing they can go out and practise their fornication and then come back and all is forgiven!😄 That's why Jesus is real to them..that's why he is the Son of God in their eyes! Good luck to them I say, as long as they don't spread silly anti science nonsense and rumours!!

Is that entirely correct? One thing I have learnt in my fruitful 77 years of life on this fart arse little blue orb, is that no matter how evidenced based and supported an argument/position is, there nearly always will be a counter argument, held by some. eg: The flat Earth society. And their supposed adventures, and deeds were written up in an obscure manner, by equally obscure men, in an equally obscure age. I was raised a Catholic, went to a Catholic school all my life, and was an Altar boy, until the parish priest caught me and a fellow altar boy, drinking the altar wine behind the altar. I was also at one time going to be a priest! Did I believe it? Sure I did at the time! Afterall they literally put the fear of Christ (excuse the pun) in you if you didn't. Was there a Jesus? was there a Robin Hood? was there a King Arthur? Broadly speaking probably yes in all cases, although I couldn't be really sure. But of course the further back we go, the less certain we can be, and the more legendary and mythical status grows and matures about such possibilities. My favourite stories as a kid were about Camalot, Authur and his Knights, and Galahad and company. Most exist in total obscurity.

You've got your answer....because it's science. And obviously because we can. You probably fail to understand that science is a discipline in eternal progress. And the universe does have a "use by date" particularly when we talk about probability of nonsensical claims like space faring octopuses. 😉 Is that what's troubling you?

And you would be wrong. Science and the scientific method simply put, makes one assumption, based on observational evidence....that the universe, obeys known rules. And vice versa...That's it, pure and simple. To say one must take science on faith, is gross ignorance and dishonesty. Religion is based on myth, so to is ID. They both assume some magical spaghetti monster. Nor the countless number of times since. Like I said, think probability instead of possibility...should be easy for a philosopher! 🤭

Mandatory also for nursing and aged care too obviously in Australia.