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I cannot put it any better then the answer to an inquisitie 14 year old in the following link, and the other links I have given...... https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-could-octopuses-evolve-until-they-take-over-the-world-and-travel-to-space-156493 https://psmag.com/environment/planet-octopuses-animal-species-likely-rise-overthrow-humans-67576 https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-chances-that-as-octopuses-are-so-intelligent-could-become-the-dominant-species-on-Earth#:~:text=K answer views-,Originally Answered%3A Is there any chances that%2C as octopi are,have a long enough lifespan. I would also think that any potential Aliens that have overcome the barriers of distance to visit Earth, would be far more likely to be Aliens in the form of those from, "Close Encounters of the Third kind" rather then those envisaged in "Arrival". Don't mind also upright walking lizard people! as per "War of the Worlds" Essentially though I see the humanoid form as more likely than others, to undertake the construction, thinking, predictable problem solving, and travelling to the stars..... https://next.voxcreative.com/sponsored/11387354/here-are-5-things-serious-scientists-believe-about-extraterrestrial "Simon Conway Morris, an evolutionary biologist at Cambridge, thinks there’s a good chance intelligent extraterrestrial life will look a lot like us. Different species independently evolve in similar patterns, Morris argued in The Runes of Evolution, and would likely do the same on other planets. "The things which we regard as most important," he said in an interview, "cognitive sophistication, large brains, intelligence, tool making, are also convergent." If there are other planets that look a lot like planet Earth — and the Kepler spacecraft is discovering that there are — then the likelihood of human-like extraterrestrial intelligence on those planets isn’t a huge stretch. "If the outcomes of evolution are at least broadly predictable," Morris said, "then what applies on Earth will apply across the Milky Way, and beyond." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: On the other hand, (and as mentioned in the above article) our first indication of ETI, maybe artificial and/or robotic...much as our own Voyagers and Pioneer craft, and the attempt at communication via mathematicsa and illustrative geometry. A view held by Seth Shostak of SETI fame. Here's another................ https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/g1592/we-asked-7-experts-what-would-aliens-actually-look-like/ What do aliens look like? "An octopus is a good example of an advanced-alien analogue on Earth. Octopuses are quite (probably human-level) intelligent and live in a totally alien environment (compared with ours). Evolution has had to find novel solutions to the pressures they're under—pressures completely different than those that shaped mammals on land. "Dolphins and chimpanzees are extremely close to us—we're all mammals. The last common ancestor for humans and dolphins was around 100 million years ago, and for humans and chimpanzees was about 10 million years ago. Most of the evolutionary choices leading to intelligence were probably made before the splits occurred. The last common ancestor between mammals and octopuses is much, much further back in time, probably 800 million years ago. "Aliens with advanced technology would have to be on land (technology needs fire to kick-start it). What would we expect in order to develop a technology comparable to ours? Hands with fingers (for delicate, precise manipulation) are important. At least two legs are needed for locomotion. If it has four legs, think centaurs—you need those hands to build things. "You need binocular vision to judge distance (to prey). Elevated head to see predators. Eyes near the brain to reduce the time delay (or degradation) of the visual signal. Sound and smell sensors (ears and nose). Your survival chances improve if you can use all of the ways you can to detect food, mates, and predators. Living in an atmosphere means sounds and smells will arrive before the stinky, noisy predator." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Other interesting answers in that link.

While our last common ancestor was still millions of years ago, our chimp and gorilla cousins today are unlikely to be star travellers unless accompanying us. What they do have though, that puts them head and shoulders above octopuses and tomato plants, is that humanoid form and some common traits. And here he is once again, hypocritically whinging and whining about being condescending, yet still refusing to answer the OP question/s.🤣 ps: and its tail.

And Chimps, Magpies, and Orca's just off the top of my head. But building, operating, navigating as space travellers? That's what I mean by dramatic overkill. Funny my favourite animals, other than my dogs, are Elephants. I watched a doco entitled "Love and Bananas: An Elephant Story" Literally had me in tears. Another good doco on Orcas is entitled "Blackfish" The Elephant doco is very much also about a Thai woman named Lek Chailert, pictured here......

Actually I was the first to mention octopuses with regards to comparison why we are evolutionary benefited to achieve space travel, while octopuses obviously are not. I have had meaningful discussions with my dogs over the years, but like the octopuses, they will never achieve space travel. I don't speak crow either, nor their descendants, dinosaurous, but once again, like octopuses they are evolutionary confined to the extent that they will never become star travelling birds. Yep, so? There evolutionary traits and pathway, prevents them also from becoming space faring species. I'm humble enough thank you, and I certainly believe more than simple rhetoric is the asnwer to a better world.

Look, I agree totally that we do under-estimate the intelliegence of animals. I have had dogs all my life, and after their initial training, they are treated as my equal...particularly the two 55kg plus Rottweilers I had.😉 But I see it as drawing a very long bow to suggest octopuses will ever become space travellers...or colonising Mars, partly because of the reasons you nominated, that they seem to have hit an revolutionary wall with the whole mate and die thing....unless of course they are already present in some as yet to be discovered underground Ocean/water source on Mars...or Europa! No probs, I have always reasoned that way, and see the often used comparison of Aliens and us, as analogous to us and ants, as dramatic overkill...sure they would be advanced, but that same advancement would enable them to recognise our own intellgence, (albeit limited as compared to theirs) but advanced enough to accomplish what we already have. That same level of intelligence on both sides would also see reasonable communication between them and us, (probably helped via mathematics and geometry) as not too great a problem. My apologies this time...the joke went way over my head. I probably have expressed this to you before, but my greatest wish in life is for the extraordinary evidence needed to confirm ETL, be discovered before I kick the bucket. That and putting boots on Mars, and I can then die a happy little vegemite!😁 While that discovery of life elsewhere (in the first instant) will probably be the most simplest form/s of life, any confirmation of an advanced species, will obviously be much further afield. Our two great barriers prohibiting contact between two species of advanced life, is of course time and distance. But wouldn't it be great if in another few hundred years or so, some distant species intercepts one of the Voyagers, interprets the maths and geometry and replies back!! I also, (as I expressed earlier and supplied a link) see the humanoid form, roughly speaking, as beneficial for advanced intelligence and space travel, and that space faring aliens certainly would not be octopuses!...or tomato plants. In fact I see it as far more likely that we could be exchanging banter with an Alien species a few hundred light years distant, rather than actually them crossing the enormous distances and shaking hands with us. ps: Good to see you back!

While I have never kept octopuses in captivity, those facts, along with others mentioned, make the possibility of them ever obtaining space faring techology near zero. And I certainly never have doubted their intelligence and emotions, just as I don't doubt those qualities in other animals such as Elephants. I never said that. I said that obviously any Aliens reaching Earth, would be in advance of us, but certainly not to the extent of us being ants. Our cities, bridges, cars, aircraft, would make it obvious to any Aliens, that the comparison of us being like ants to them is invalid. But what planes of existance are we talking about?...Parallel or other universes? Wouldn't they all be self contained? And if we speculate collisions between such universes/planes, wouldn't there be some evidence of it? I don't say humans are "smarter" then animals, but we are evolutionary different, in such ways as to be the dominant/apex species, that will one day probably leave his home planet to establish colonies on other worlds....

https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-ever-evolve-into-a-sapient-species-Why-or-why-not Joel Reid: , Science teacherUpdated Jun 24, 2019 · Upvoted by Matan Shelomi: , Organismic and Evolutionary Biologist and David Bahry: , MSc Evolutionary Biology, Carleton University (2021) "No, octopuses are unlikely to evolve into a sapient species … but the reason why is sort of sad. Octopuses are indeed highly intelligent creatures, but they suffer a drawback in their evolution that is so severe that they lack the ability to develop their intelligence past a single generation … they have extremely short lives. An octopus has one purpose in life … babies. A father will die weeks after mating. A mother octopus will starve herself to death rather than leave her brood alone even for a second … and this is actually the most common form of death for an octopus. This means that as the mother dies then the offspring are born, meaning they never transmit their knowledge to the next generation. Octopuses that do not reproduce will soon die anyway. The life expectancy for a healthy, safe, octopus who does not have a brood to watch over reaches up to 5 years. And that is the maximum range. The reality is that octopuses simply do not live long enough, nor have time to pass on their knowledge. Unless they evolve longer lives then they are stuck where they are in terms of intelligence".

Damn!!! there goes that bloody pot again, yelling to the kettle that he's black! 😄 I'll leave you to your dreams and philosophy matey OK? 😉 ps: Not sure what your irrelevant video is about, and really not that interested. Don't even know the sheila called Vicky Pollard and likewise am not interested enough to google it, or watch the video. You enjoy it though, if it makes you feel better.🤣

Yeah sad, poor little thing. Everything is OK with me at this time...appetite well and truly back, no light headeness, no runny nose, cough near gone...no temperature,( even in the early days) Again, considering my age, it shows the effectiveness of the vaccines and booster.

Heaps more where they came from, but here is one more that is somewhat relevant anyway....... "North Atlantic Octopus. Sometimes Called The Spoonarm Octopus (Thanks To The Curly Tips Of Its Arms)"

Started to get runny nose and loads of sneezing and light headed on Wednesday. Tested positive on Thursday morning and have been isolated since. Symptoms started to disappear yesterday, and have now all but gone...feeling pretty good while still isolating until Thursday morning. 2 astra zeneca shots, plus Moderna booster were my defence. I am also 77 years old. ps: no confirmation as yet as to what variant I had. A symptom I did forget to mention, was a loss of appetite, although taste OK.

It's rather hard to ignore your continued strawmen...... again, the science of meteorology are able to predict many things in advance, including the "El nino effect" that we in Australia are now experiencing, and which was forecasted early last year. another strawman. 😏🥱 Sad. No, but there is very good reason and logic to be able to exclude certain paths...eg: Octopuses and tomato plants evolving to space faring civilisations. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Some rather bizzare evolutionary paths, or lack there of. Still nothing close to space faring octopuses! https://www.boredpanda.com/strange-deep-sea-creatures-photography-roman-fedortsov/?all_submissions=true #1 "Gorgonocephalus Is A Genus Of Marine Basket Stars In The Class Ophiuroidea" #2 Many more, just as weird, just as wonderful, at link...... Anyone for a sea cheeseburger with teeth!

Bob Hawke was one of Australia's best Prime Ministers. Here he is in 1980 just after we won the America's Cup trophy for the first time....... Great bloke!!

Here dimreeper, let me help you out... https://www.aquablog.ca/2015/10/why-squid-octopuses-and-cuttlefish-will-take-over-the-world/ WHY SQUID, OCTOPUSES AND CUTTLEFISH WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD: the article concludes thus.................... Learn what you can, stay safe out there, and protect each other from the potential cephalopod uprising. Good luck. In all seriousness, we love cephalopods. Another thing you can do for these impressive animals is to be mindful of how much seafood (calamari) you eat and where it comes from. Look for sustainable seafood options, like Ocean Wise here in Canada, to ensure you’re being as respectful of these animals as possible. You just never know about that whole “seeking retribution” thing. 🤣 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/through-the-eye-of-an-octopus conclusion: "Octopuses, naked and vulnerable, took to dens, as early humans took to caves. Like humans, they became versatile foragers, using a wide repertoire of stalking and killing techniques. To avoid exposure, they developed spatial sense and learned to cover their hunting grounds methodically and efficiently. Mather and O'Dor found that the Bermudan O. vulgaris spends just 7 percent of its time hunting; Australian giant cuttlefish spend 3 percent. In short, octopuses came to resemble us. Their hunting done, they huddle safely in their dens, a bit like early humans around campfires. "You have to wonder what they think about while they're tucked away," says O'Dor. Do they muse on the cruel turns of evolution, which have left them all dressed up with big brains but with no place to go and little time to use them? See the online article "Octopuses Are Smart Suckers" by Roland Anderson and Jennifer Mather: is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/smarts.html. James Wood's Cephalopod page has scientific articles, a wealth of information about different species, and excellent FAQ pages: www.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP." :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: And of course it must be recognised that Octopuses, Squid, Cuttlefish etc are great sources of food in many cultures. https://www.webmd.com/diet/health-benefits-octopus#1 Potential Health Benefits of Octopus Octopus is rich in vitamins and minerals. It’s also low in fat, making it a great source of complete protein for people trying to manage their weight. This can depend on how it’s prepared, however. Frying it or cooking octopus in butter or oil can add extra fat and calorie content to your meal. Some added health benefits of including octopus in your diet may include: Octopus is an excellent source of omega-3 fatty acids, "good fats" linked to a range of heart-healthy benefits. Omega-3s can lower your blood pressure and slow the buildup of plaque in your arteries, reducing stress on the heart. This research also shows that omega-3s can: Reduce triglycerides, fats in your blood that can increase the risk of stroke, heart attack, and heart disease Lower the risk of developing an irregular heartbeat Have an anti-inflammatory response, which can reduce your risk for chronic illnesses including heart disease.

There's our old pot, calling the kettle black again!🤣 You continue to ignore and be silly and less then adult like with your replies, (as opposed to answers), (1) answer the OP question/s, (2) Any reference at all to any possibility of octopuses, (and/or tomatoes) becoming space faring species, and (3) Some evidence to show that mathematics would not be the most logical universal form of communication between advanced alien species. https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-could-octopuses-evolve-until-they-take-over-the-world-and-travel-to-space-156493 https://thedebrief.org/will-hyperintelligent-octopuses-take-over-the-world/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/27/dear-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/ https://eusci.org.uk/2020/06/22/an-alien-in-our-sea-a-look-at-the-intelligence-of-an-octopus/ PS: I would if I was you, forget about playing poker, as your actions would probably result in your demise. 😆😉 You would probably be a candidate for some mental study. Obviously each symbol has a meaning, and you jumbling them together is simply word salad. That's absolutely no reason though for anyone to hypothesis a ridiculious, near impossible (as shown) scenario, like space faring octopuses or tomatoes. And by the way, the science of meteorology are able to predict many things in advance, including the "El nino effect" that we in Australia are now experiencing, and which was forecasted early last year.

I read that as similar to asking what is the minimum most stable orbital distance, something can orbit a BH? Which would be actually the photon sphere at 1.5 Schwarzchild radius. Where would that be for a Neutron star, (as opposed to Magnetar and Pulsar)

You mean what its not capable of is fact :eg:Space faring octopuses. (as per my reputable links) And that changes nothing re the fact that space faring octopuses, (or tomato plants) are a mythical figment of your imagination. 🤭 🙄 2+2=4 no matter how you chose to write it. But hey, cudos for at least finally giving a link supposedly supporting some of your claims. Not sure how many more pages we'll need before you give a reputable link to support your space faring octopuses.😄 Question: why are you so reluctant to answer the OP question? Is this a religious thingy?

Science is the best guess at any one particular time. 2+2=4 here, there, and everywhere, not withstanding your incredulity. We certainly have a far better idea of evolution then you are giving it credit for, and specifically those ideas/theories invalidate your proposal.... it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact.

https://phys.org/news/2022-01-black-hole-fuzzball-wormhole-debate.html Resolving the black hole 'fuzzball or wormhole' debate: The study attempts to put to rest the debate over Stephen Hawking's famous information paradox, the problem created by Hawking's conclusion that any data that enters a black hole can never leave. This conclusion accorded with the laws of thermodynamics, but opposed the fundamental laws of quantum mechanics. "What we found from string theory is that all the mass of a black hole is not getting sucked in to the center," said Samir Mathur, lead author of the study and professor of physics at The Ohio State University. "The black hole tries to squeeze things to a point, but then the particles get stretched into these strings, and the strings start to stretch and expand and it becomes this fuzzball that expands to fill up the entirety of the black hole." The study, published Dec. 28 in the Turkish Journal of Physics, found that string theory almost certainly holds the answer to Hawking's paradox, as the paper's authors had originally believed. The physicists proved theorems to show that the fuzzball theory remains the most likely solution for Hawking's information paradox. The researchers have also published an essay showing how this work may resolve longstanding puzzles in cosmology; the essay appeared in December in the International Journal of Modern Physics. more at link..... the paper: https://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/physics/abstract.htm;jsessionid=1060E4C8647824F1697AE550C414D174?id=30416 Contrasting the fuzzball and wormhole paradigms for black holes Authors: BIN GUO, MARCEL HUGHES, SAMIR MATHUR, MADHUR MEHTA Abstract: We examine an interesting set of recent proposals describing a `wormhole paradigm' for black holes. These proposals require that in some effective variables, semiclassical low-energy dynamics emerges at the horizon. We prove the `effective small corrections theorem' to show that such an effective horizon behavior is not compatible with the requirement that the black hole radiate like a piece of coal as seen from outside. This theorem thus concretizes the fact that the proposals within the wormhole paradigm require some nonlocality linking the hole and its distant radiation. We try to illustrate various proposals for nonlocality by making simple bit models to encode the nonlocal effects. In each case, we find either nonunitarity of evolution in the black hole interior or a nonlocal Hamiltonian interaction between the hole and infinity; such an interaction is not present for burning coal. We examine recent arguments about the Page curve and observe that the quantity that is argued to follow the Page curve of a normal body is not the entanglement entropy but a different quantity. It has been suggested that this replacement of the quantity to be computed arises from the possibility of topology change in gravity which can generate replica wormholes. We examine the role of topology change in quantum gravity but do not find any source of connections between different replica copies in the path integral for the Rényi entropy. We also contrast the wormhole paradigm with the fuzzball paradigm, where the fuzzball does radiate like a piece of coal. Just as in the case of a piece of coal, the fuzzball does not have low-energy semiclassical dynamics at its surface at energies E∼TE∼T (effective dynamics at energies E≫TE≫T is possible under the conjecture of fuzzball complementarity, but these E≫TE≫T modes have no relevance to the Page curve or the information paradox).

Your frankness and honesty is to be admired, athough I believe sometimes lying can be for the good. We lie to little children for there own good...we sometimes discreetly lie to our friends, to avoid hurting them. The evil of lying is in lying for profit and gain, to avoid consequences of one's own doing, and in a vain effort to appear more than what one actually is.

Of course, that goes without saying. Your own accounts/answers (without pissing in your pocket) have been of value to myself.

I'm no expert on the theory of evolution, other then understanding that it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. One of the aspects I understand is that evolutionary paths are driven by need and the environment and adaptation. That is no better illustrated then the finches on the Galapagos Islands having developed different shaped beaks to take advantage of the different kinds of food available on different islands. I have often heard the question/s asked, why don't chimps. gorillas all evolve into human. We are all Apes...like the Neanderthals, and also our cousins the orangutans, gorillas, bonobos and chimpanzees. All of us evolved from a common ancestor that lived about 14 million years ago...Those apes have been on their own line of evolution for more than 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again. The same applies even with far more validity with octopuses. If we forget about our cousins and our first common ancestor 14 million years ago, and substitute the octopuse and where our most common ancestor is in that regard, we need to go back about 750 million years! that was a flatworm that lived on the Ocean floors and the point at which we totally separate down separate evolutionary pathways. Here's a couple of reputable links again, basically saying the above...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/27/dear-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/ https://eusci.org.uk/2020/06/22/an-alien-in-our-sea-a-look-at-the-intelligence-of-an-octopus/ ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: First dimreeper took offence at the scientifically supported claim that mathematics and geometrical illustrations, should overcome language difficulties with advanced Alien beings. eg; The plaques aboard the Pioneer and Voyager craft. Now he conveniently wants to suggest that octopuses can evolve into a space faring species without any reputable link to support it. 😆 And then still refuses to answer the OP question/s. 🥱 An old quote comes to mind.... "Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself". Henry Louis Mencken. (1880-1956). Minority Report, H. L. Mencken's Notebooks. Knopf, 1956.

+1 The first thing one needs to ask themselves, is are the questions "asked" in these thread genuine?

Bingo! Space and time, (as we know them) started at the BB. One cannot exist without the other and are two sides of the same coin.

Everyone's an Idiot, and/or is retarded!😉 Someone really needs to take an aspro and have a good lay down.