beecee

As swansont and exchemist have said, so our old mate Isacc Newton's idea of transmuting lead to gold and similar, was basically correct in his side practise of alchemy, although obviously not the same methodology. Also worth mentioning, this is also basically what happens in a fission bomb and is called nuclear transmutation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission

My grammatical erorr then. My suggestion was simply that the "powers that be", due to the inherent dangers of space travel, would have thought it reasonable enough to include a fully trained astronaut. Of course! and still just basic stuff as you say re pulling g's. A fully trained astronaut's training regime is much longer then that obviously. Maybe my desire to have a fully trained astronaut up front, means I'm a big pussy cat at heart! So you would have no problem jumping on a "fly by wire" jet, without a pilot up front? Three actually were ex pilots, the other a cancer surving physician with a prosthesis.

No, there is no evidence as you say, and I sincerely hope there is never ever a situation with any space tourism, where a situation may arise, where a professional is needed, or may have made a difference. That's why I asked the question. Personally though, if I was put in that position, I would like a professional. I did find this ....https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/sep/15/spacex-launch-amateur-astronauts-passengers extract: "Though the capsule is automated, the four Dragon riders spent six months training for the flight to cope with any emergency. That training included centrifuge and fighter jet flights, launch and re-entry practice in SpaceX’s capsule simulator and a grueling trek up Washington’s Mount Rainier in the snow". ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Obviously the powers that be, have forseen that their six months training, should allow for any eventuation. I hope so.

It's an obsession that is more akin to a religious obsession I suggest, in spamming his propaganda/philosophy, and ignoring the prime issue and question at hand. jealousy?? envy?? or a political obsession?

You have it arse up. I used the airline industry as an analogy in comparing flight costs in its infancy to what it is now, and in comparison to space tourism now, and what it may cost in the future. It has nought to do with fossil fuel, although I am sympathetic to your's and my cause. No, as crook an idea as your idolised justice system in actual fact. It's here to stay and totally necessary, what we can do of course is as I suggested ..improvement in technology and new methodologies. Sorry, tourism will contiue, albeit hopefully in a more sustainable manner. That's reality. Quite hypocritical of you, since you were the first to go off topic with your obsession with the filthy rich and billionares. My position is non political and simply asks whether it is wise or inappropriate to send four people in to orbit without a professional aboard who may be able to act with reason and logic the others do not have, and possibly avoid catastrophe.

The point I'm making is that at least in the case of Gagarin's flight, it was all controlled from the ground, with onboard controls locked and I think the same applied also with Glenn. Perhaps I'm more uncouth than you and probably less pretentious also. I'm not questioning your non existant compliments of the filthy rich, I'm questioning your rather boring critique and obsession with them, whenever you see an opportunity. You fail to comment on Elon Musk's good work and environmental concerns that I linked to. Here's another.... https://www.npr.org/2021/02/08/965372754/elon-musk-funds-100-million-xprize-for-pursuit-of-new-carbon-removal-ideas You again are playing games and being obtuse. The question is in regards to who can and who cannot afford to fly...you avoided that. On the question of airline contribution to pollution and the environment, sure, work needs to be done to reduce emmisions and thankfully work is being done, and technology improved to reduce emmisions.https://www.edf.org/climate/aviation Again, another question for you to avoid..are you suggesting the elimination of airflight?

Your every second word seems to be less then complimentary about the filthy rich. Yes, and with the flight in question, only one was a billionare. Did you see the rundown on each passenger? Or were you not interested? And of course, hence the need of an astronaut. Probably, but as a professional, and like Armstrong in Gemini VIII, some quick thinking, and you never know. Perhaps, so? Musk as I pointed out, while argueably eccentric, has done a fair bit to help the environment, one of your valid points. Yes I did...a term of endearment actually,☺️ I have nothing against anyone with money or without money. I also call myself an old fart sometimes, or an old bastard, more terms of endearment. Airlines and air flights were also once just for the filthy rich, now [before covid 19] there are thousands of flights every day with 2, 3 or 400 people on each flight. In other words most people now days, with a bit of economic sense, saving etc, can or will be able to afford a flight. See Elon Musk and what he has done and as I mentioned. And obviously what any person does with their money is there business. I would love the entire world's militarisitc expenditure to be put into science, but guess what? it won't or is unlikley to happen. Yes, they all know the risk. I was suggesting how I would feel and what I would want, if I was lucky enough to be a candidate for such a flight. Is Cape Canaveral the only space port in the world? I'm all for protecting the environment, and there is much to be and should be done. I actually have a personal interest in it. What are you suggesting? Stop all space endeavours? Or just the tourism type as undertaken by the filthy rich? Remember the filthy rich were also the only ones participating in normal airline flights in the early days of the 20th century.

What did Earth look like? Pick your time period...I found it interesting. https://dinosaurpictures.org/ancient-earth/#105

On that part of your argument you do have a point. My beef with you was more on the personal political shot you were making about billionares and rich folk. Like I said, I don't really give a stuff about that at this time, but if you want to discuss, start a thread. On the polution with regards to space shots, whether exploration, science or tourism, there are cleaner means, and I dare say more investigative research into that area is going on as we speak. The other point is that space shots, whether explorative, science or tourism, are not occuring that often. But don't get me wrong, there are many areas that need attention to avoid reaching any tipping point with regards to the environment, and as space endeavours of any kind grow in number, those cleaner methods must be looked at. With more Earth based applications, hasn't Musk concentrated on electric cars? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Nevada While Musk could be inferred as a eccentric sort of character, I'm sure you'll join with me in congratulating him for his efforts in that area. He also has built a giant solar battery in South Australia...https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a31350880/elon-musk-battery-farm/ 🙄 Yes, I remember similar arguments from you with regards to sport and adventure in general. Your comment on occasionaly combusting, is also relevant to my suggestion that a professional would be nice to be on board, that may see a way out in that or other situations. There has been much progress made in technology since private companies were given the green light. You seem obsessed with billionares and the filthy rich. Space tourism is and will grow. If any of the filthy rich want the ultimate ride, that's their business. You seem rather envious of their position? And of course as space tourism grows, the costs will be more affordable. The airline industry was once only for the rich and famous also. It [space tourism] is part and parcel of our steps into space and beyond. Now that I've covered your objections and obsessions, can we get back on track? I think I understand your position, but as I said, would you fly a fully computer/automated run aircraft across the Pacific, without a professional up at the pointy end? I thought I was an intrepid sort of bloke, but perhaps I'm just a big scaredy cat 😉 I think "The Vat" covers my position very well here..... Obviously in this situation none at all. It is fully controlled from the ground. But again, that professional onboard in the event of something happening, just maybe able to offer advice, fix a leak in the space suit or whatever...I'm not really sure. And as I mentioned, when thinking about the situation more, perhaps it is not required. I did say "On the other, after thinking about it more, this flight I suppose is no different then Yuri Gagarin's first orbital, or John Glenn's first orbital....take off, orbital insertion, orbit a number of times, then re-entry and landing. I mean they are not changing course, or docking or anything...still as anxious as I would be to go, I would love someone of Neil Armstrong's calibre next to me!" Just a thought on my part.

A professional astronaut has obviously a far greater insight the some filthy rich billionare, or geologist or etacher or whatever. Bingo on your first comment. On the other, after thinking about it more, this flight I suppose is no different then Yuri Gagarin's first orbital, or John Glenn's first orbital....take off, orbital insertion, orbit a number of times, then re-entry and landing. I mean they are not changing course, or docking or anything...still as anxious as I would be to go, I would love someone of Neil Armstrong's calibre next to me! PS: The only rep I have given btw, is one positive rep. 😉

That's my point joigus....would any of us fly on a computer controlled aircraft over long distances? They have pilots, just in case. ps: Perhaps the neg reps and otherwise were a result of people making this politcal, when it wasn't meant to be political at all. Whether publically funded or otherwise, they are advancing mankind and technology...Be that space exploration, research or tourism.

Exactly, and for safety and just in case.

Of course, have I said any different....the point you brush over and relative to my question, is that they all still have a pilot. Thank you finally for an answer not poluted by politics. Personally, I'm not so sure, hence my question. For instance, Would you fly from the US or Europe to Australia on an aircraft, operated by fully ground computer and/or controlled, "without a pilot", just in case.

A professional astronaut with his experience, may be able to take some action to prevent any mishap, one way or the other. ? What extra cargo are we talking about? Perhaps you need to read the OP, specifically and obviously this bit..."shouldn't an astronaut/professional be part of the payload?" See this is the thing with yourself and obviously Peterkin so far....you have all avoided the question at hand, because of your political agenda and opinion. Personally, I don't give a stuff about whether Space X or any of the other space companies is run by billionares or government concern. I asked a simple question, taking into account of course, of the still recognised dangers and things that can go wrong in space endeavours, and whether any craft fully automated/computer controlled or not, should be without a professional astronaut. The political stance is simply that space exploration, space science, space tourism, will all continue, as they should, with of course the first two exploration and science leading the way. And of course it goes without saying that the private concerns, particularly Space X, have achieved massive technological advancements since they started their operations...advancements that have my full support and admiration. That will most certainly not vanish, just because space tourism, at this time, is understandably strictly for the filthy rich...much as airline travel was when it first got off the ground. But hey, we digress....the question again is, shouldn't an astronaut/professional be part of the payload? Great to see automation and remote control from Earth doing such increduble things, but even normal air travel today is mainly automated, but who would fly on a jumbo or any jet airliner without a pilot? I can't help thinking that while this is momentous, that perhaps illustrating that space tourism will certainly be a way of the future for many, that a professional should be on board in case of any unforseen circumstances. Afterall space is still a highly dangerous undertaking, with so many variables and scenarios that can go wrong.

I gave the gemini VIII example as how the skills of an astronaut is needed, and in this incident, both Armstrong and Scott were close to blacking out. I don't believe ground crew could have fixed the problem. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/04/gemini-8-forgotten-mission-almost-ended-space-program/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_8#Emergency But again my point is that the skill of a professional, an astronaut in this case, maybe needed...we now have fully automated controlled cars, but I don't see any nation relaxing laws that may eliminate the need for anyone behind the driver's seat, and of course the previous example I gave...I would bet that a fully automated flight from the US to Australia could be successfully done, but I seriously doubt it will ever happen without a professional at the pointy end...in this case a pilot. I sincerely hope that all goes to plan without any problems and believe it will going on the success rate of Space-X, but it does not lessen the still present dangers of our still baby steps into space. Space-X and the other private companies are putting space travel out in front again, and are making momentious discoveries of technology in the process. If they want an old run of the mill Aussie to give it a go then I'm their man...but gee, I would like a Neil Armstrong sitting beside me.

I'd probably wish you the best of luck, swear a bit under my breath, and break your legs just before you entered the capsule!😛

Ahh, there only Hunstman and harmless! But yeah would also scare the lving daylights out of me also.

My point is that irrespective of the many successes of Space-X and other companies, space exploration or tourism is still ranked as dangerous. It was also the speed which Armstrong reasoned out the problem with Gemini VIII that saved the day for the mission. I'm not sure what a professional astronaut would achieve if some unexpected or unforeseen event were to take place, but just that little bit of experience, could possibly save the day, with or without onboard controls. Wasn't there a Mercury incident also where the capsule returned and started to sink? Grissom I believe was the astronaut who was later killed in Apollo I along with Chaffee and White. A lay person in that situation may not have survived. If I was a billionare and decided to partake in such an adventure, remote controlled or not, I would love an experienced, fully trained astronaut to be along for security. Bingo!!!

I'm asking for opinions...You have given yours...thanks. Not everyone is as smart as you. 🤭Perhaps there decision/s are wrong. You take it easy, you sound rather edgy...🙄 Again the question/s stand.....Are they too confident in attempting a still rather dangerous venture, without a professional on board? Is it a wise and appropriate thing to do considering the safety of thehumans on board? [be they billionares or not] https://theconversation.com/spacex-inspiration4-mission-sent-4-people-with-minimal-training-into-orbit-and-brought-space-tourism-closer-to-reality-167611 The future of space tourism? Sending a crew of amateur astronauts into orbit is a significant step in the development of space tourism. However, despite the more inclusive feel of the mission, there are still serious barriers to overcome before average people can go to space. For one, the cost remains quite high. Though three of the four are not rich, Isaacman is a billionaire and paid an estimated $200 million to fund the trip. The need to train for a mission like this also means that prospective passengers must be able to devote significant amounts of time to prepare – time that many ordinary people don’t have. Finally, space remains a dangerous place, and there will never be a way to fully remove the danger of launching people – whether untrained civilians or seasoned professional astronauts – into space. [Over 110,000 readers rely on The Conversation’s newsletter to understand the world. Sign up today.] Despite these limitations, orbital space tourism is coming. For SpaceX, Inspiration4 is an important proof of concept that demonstrated the safety and reliability of their autonomous rocket and capsule systems. Indeed, SpaceX has several tourist missions planned in the next few months, even though the company isn’t focused on space tourism. Some will even includes stops at the International Space Station. Even as space remains out of reach for most on Earth, Inspiration4 is an example of how billionaire space barons’ efforts to include more people on their journeys can give an otherwise exclusive activity a wider public appeal. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2021-09-spacex-tourist-crew-healthy-happy.html An Interesting mixture of the four all civilian crew.....

A woman walked into the kitchen to find her husband stalking around with a fly swatter "What are you doing?" She asked. "Hunting Flies" He responded. "Oh. ! Killing any?" She asked. "Yep, 3 males, 2 Females," he replied. Intrigued, she asked. "How can you tell them apart?" He responded, "3 were on a beer can, 2 were on the phone

So what are the possible "foreseeable problems" that they have made plans for? How will they be handled? It's the unforseen ones I'm obviously speaking of anyway. We could fly an automated jet from the US to Australia, but I'm pretty sure most passengers would still like a pilot up front. And they all probably have recieved some sort of training also, but that doesn't imo, cover experience, which maybe needed in certain situations. The space explorative industry is 100% necessary, as will be a return to the Moon, and onto greater achievments. We were not born to stagnate on this fart arse little blue orb [with all due respects to our fart arse little blue orb 😉] and just like Earth based tourism today, whether by sea or air, tourists will follow after the explorative sciences have done their prioritive bit, in as a safest and cleanest manner possible. But my question stands....Are they too confident in attempting a still rather dangerous venture, without a professional on board? Is it a wise and appropriate thing to do considering the safety of thehumans on board? [be they billionares or not]

Certainly not clueless as two are ex pilots, but obviously my question stands...without a professional astronaut? Worth noting also that even in the event of an unforseen mishap, they have no docking mechanism to dock with the ISS...On second thought could the ISS's RMS, [robotic arm] be able to latch onto it?

I would!!😬 For MigL............. The Australian region of Gippsland encountered a phenomenon knowns as ballooning, where spiders move to higher ground after heavy rains and flooding.

https://phys.org/news/2021-09-spacex-tourist-crew-healthy-happy.html SpaceX's tourist crew 'healthy, happy and resting': Extract: Its main goal, however, is to prove that space is accessible to ordinary people as the United States and private companies like SpaceX seek to further commercialize the cosmos. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: OK, don't get me wrong, as personally I would jump at the chance to be a part of something like this. But I can't help thinking, shouldn't an astronaut/professional be part of the payload? Great to see automation and remote control from Earth doing such increduble things, but even normal air travel today is mainly automated, but who would fly on a jumbo or any jet airliner without a pilot? I can't help thinking that while this is momentous, that perhaps illustrating that space tourism will certainly be a way of the future for many, that a professional should be on board in case of any unforseen circumstances. My mind goes back to Gemini VIII and the sudden wild uncontrolled rocking and rolling when it docked [first time ever attempted] with the Agena partner. On this flight was Armstrong of course, and his cool, calm and ultimately successful manouver in bring Gemini under control was certainly a reason he was chosen to lead Apollo 11 and the first Moon manned landing. OK, we were obviously doing things for the first time ever, but my point I believe still stands. What do others think?

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