beecee

Likewise, proof of the above....you show me your's and I'll show you mine. Remember you demanded proof, not isolated bits of evidence.

Or conversely mount a fabricated propaganda campaign against prohibition and the furphy of government control, and some, (the more gullible) will approve of being able to do what ever we want.

And simply an accepted part of society protocol acceptance and necessity. That is the crux of my argument with any silly suggestion of trying to ban alcohol. Unlike others here, you have put a concise argument for decriminalising cannibis and even making it legal. The figures in Australia are "Attitudes towards legalising recreational cannabis in Australia have shifted over the last decade, according to the NDSHS more Australians now support legalisation of cannabis than remain opposed; 41% of Australians now support the legalisation of cannabis, 37% remain opposed, and 22% are undecided". WIKI I would though question the poll again, on the premise of whether those taking part were thinking decriminalisation or making it legal. My opinion remains as is though, and I simply don't accept that making another mind altering drug freely available is not the way to go. And possibly neither will anything else.

Totally agree. Also as I mentioned yesterday, at least in Australia, we have a government universal health scheme financed by a percentage of tax but covering all of society until one kicks the bucket. We also have a compulsory superannuation scheme to finance individuals and families in retirement. Both made law by a left of centre socialist leaning government, and both now so evidently beneficial to all of society, that they are accepted across the board. Only a Jordan Peterson clone would/could deny that government control, regulations and laws should be non existent. Are you suggesting that muggings and other vicitm crimes would cease if illegal drugs were made legal? We currently have a "gang war" in Sydney (opposing bikie gangs) that has prompted the authorities to form a task force to handle these criminals. They are now getting right up in their faces, conducting raids, arresting all and sundry in these opposing groups on suspicion, and confiscating vast amounts of cash and weapons in the process. It would be great to save the police tash force the time and effort and let them kill each other off, except for one thing...inevitably some innocent bystander could be killed. That of course is unaceptable and why they are being hounded at every opportunity.

No, arse about face. I prefer the drug that society already dictates as a social necessity in all walks of life in any reasonable democratic westernised society.

No problem with the -1, you have always liked playing games and avoiding questions and facts with personal unworkable, philosophical nonsense...you knoq, like, we should have no jails, no evil exists in society, Hitler deserving sympathy etc etc. On the subject of considering I maybe wrong, sure there's a chance, but n one has yet shown me that. In the meantime, thankfully my views align with the democratic society of which I am apart. And that's really the crux of the matter and what appears to be eating at you. 🥱 Let me reiterate again, for any Idiot to claim sarcastically stupidly or otherwise, that the elderly should not vote, shows the mentality of some, that believe that because they themselves had moments of weakness in the past to dabble with this illegal crap, we should give everyone else that same choice, is selfish at best and criminal at worst. Sort of bringing as many as possible down to their level.

The first gravitational wave detction by aLIGO was between a 29 solar mass BH and a 36 solar mass BH The final merged BH after ringdown was a 62 solar masses. 3 solar masses lost with gravitational radiation. This was designated GW150914. https://aasnova.org/2016/02/11/ligo-discovers-the-merger-of-two-black-holes/ https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/news/ligo20160211 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_observation_of_gravitational_waves#GW150914_event

We have sadly had a couple of young pre-teen and teenage girls commit suicide over the last few months because of bullying. I have experienced bullying three times in my life, (stories relayed in the punsihment/torture thread from memory) once concerning my young Son. One thing I learnt is mostly bullies are cowards and hate pain inflicted on their person!😉 That generally straightens them out, one way or the other. As a lapsed Catholic, yes suicide is a mortal sin, deserved of Hell for all eternity! Unless of course, one (after for example jumping off the Sydney Harbour Bridge) regrets what he has done half way down and makes an act of perfect contrition.

They were school kids, and probably did do the majority of what their parents expected. But kids leave school and then are essentially not under parental control. Perhaps you need to confront the other details and evidence that I have posted, rather then having a dig at people? I won't though give you any neg rep, despite that means being thrown around again. To repeat myself again, this discussion seems to have shown that when one crosses a certain "political line" or have themselves shown weakness in dabbling in illegal drugs, that it will draw their wrath and a hoarde of neg votes. 13 or so in the last three or so days!!! 😄 That's actually sad, and a poor reflection on some. Thankfully the general moral standards of my society, will never see the ignorant banning of alcohol, nor the legitimising of any other drug already on the illegal list, for the reasons given. And that is what matters most and what concerns me. And yet we still have that furphy being pushed by those that like having a dig at people, that Governments should not prohibit you from doing what you want, despite the chances of it being harmful to you. That strangely sounds a lot like Jordan Peterson and Trump. I certainly prefer a world where reasonable social government control over society continues as is...the likes of universal health care, compulsory superannutaion, etc rather then the society as proposed by those rednecks that invaded the White House.

I recognised the point you were making. My point was that the poll was not necessarily an accurate account of the reality of the situation.

Interesting but then again 4 years ago the polls were showing that Labor would shit the elections in. They didn't. They lost. And from your link.................. How are the data collected "Every three years, school students in Western Australia are surveyed to find out about their drug use in the Australian School Students Alcohol and Drug Survey. They are asked about alcohol, tobacco, other illicit and licit drug use, how much they use, how they use and their attitudes to alcohol and other drug use." While WA is our largest state, it is also the most sparsely populated. 2.7 million. I also notice no results re illegal drugs. And finally, it is confined to school students.

Totally agree. By the way a gun license in Australia costs in excess of $300. Guns, a social necessity? That's rather a silly thing to say. You sound like some Trumpised hillbilly yokel and NRA supporter. And of course the USA is not the epitome or the total of democratic westernised societies throughout the world, where of course alcohol is part and parcel of nearly every human endeavour or event. Or were you just trying to be funny, in the face of the articles and facts I have presented? I'll be around for a while yet, and I suggest most all here also hope for just that. Most young ones that I know though, certainly have already, including my Son. They drink, as per the social necessities dictates, and none as far as I know are drug addicts. In fact I am as sure as any parent can be, that my Son has not lowered himself to experiment with such crap. More than Father and Son, we are good mates. And of course my suggestion still stands...Increasing penalties, and jail terms may wake a few of those smart arse criminals and weak kneed individuals that crave illegal drugs up.

Some kids aren't stupid. Some kids are. Just as some adults are stupid. For any number of reasons, as I believe I have stated. The driving lmit for alcohol in Australia is 0.05. BAC is what police test for in roadside alcohol breath tests. A BAC of 0.05% means that there is 0.05g of alcohol in every 100ml of blood. This is the legal limit for driving in Australia. To avoid a driving under the influence conviction, your BAC must be under 0.05%. https://adf.org.au/insights/roadside-drug-testing/#:~:text=For people who frequently use,detected for around 30 hours.&text=It's important for people who,for a period of time. Cannabis: random roadside saliva tests can detect THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) for around 12 hours after use in people who use cannabis infrequently or ‘recreationally’.4 For people who frequently use cannabis, THC can usually be detected for around 30 hours.4 It’s important for people who use cannabis frequently to know that THC can be found in urine samples for around a month after cannabis was last used. This is because the body stores THC in fat cells for a period of time.4, 5 Methamphetamine: may be detected in saliva for around two days after use.6 When withdrawing or ‘coming down’ from methamphetamine, people can experience fatigue, anxiety and irritability. MDMA: may be detected in saliva tests for around two days after use.7 Medications: if you’re taking medication, it’s best to talk to your doctor about the combined impact on your ability to drive. Not sure if that is what I claimed? It, ( cannibis and other illegal drugs) can be detected within your system is what I thought I said...too bloody lazy to go back and check! Sure! Perhaps increase drastically, the penalities for buying banned guns and/or substances.

Bullying?? Particularly with kids and teenagers.

It is not though part and parcel of nearly every aspect of our lives in any democratic westernised society. Of course, and the legitimate reasons given as to why all are illegal unlike alcohol. And of course we do have a difference between decriminalisation and illegalities. Not in the vast majority of Australia... The ACT is an exception to some extent. "On 25 September 2019, the Australia Capital Territory passed a bill allowing for possession and growth of small amounts of cannabis for personal use as of 31 January 2020, although the laws conflict with federal laws which prohibit recreational use of cannabis and the supply of cannabis and cannabis seeds are not allowed under the changes". Irrespective of the length of acute impairment, on Australia if drugs are detected in a driver he is automatically disqualified from driving, and heavily fined. https://adf.org.au/insights/drugs-and-driving/#:~:text=In Australia it's illegal to,alcohol level is over 0.05.&text=It's also illegal to drive,illicit drugs in your system.&text=Roadside drug testing occurs in,appears to have worn off. extract: Drugs and driving – things to remember In Australia it’s illegal to drive if your blood alcohol level is over 0.05.12 It’s also illegal to drive with any quantity of illicit drugs in your system.13 Roadside drug testing occurs in all states and territories. Alcohol and other drugs can affect you long after their immediate impact appears to have worn off. People with drugs in their system pose a higher road risk, even if they feel it’s safe to drive.14 You may feel tired or hungover as drugs wear off, this can also impair driving ability.3 All drivers, young and old, should avoid driving if they've recently drunk alcohol or taken other drugs.2 Speak to a health professional and read packaging information or visit the NPS MedicineWise website before mixing medications with alcohol or other drugs. Tell your doctor about all the drugs that you use (including prescribed, over-the-counter and illegal drugs). They can help you to reduce the risk of unwanted interactions between drugs. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: This means you may feel capable of driving, but in reality—you might be intoxicated. In Australia it's illegal to drive if your blood alcohol level is over 0.05. It's also illegal to drive with any quantity of illicit drugs in your system.

I havn't said anything different. While some members (for there own reasons) have mentioned about repeating myself, I see the need to do it again. (1) Alcohol is a social necessity. It is part and parcel of all areas of western society and we would have riots if any attempt was made to ban it. In fact, and I stress that point again, it will not be, nor should it be banned, in line with the topic heading. (2) The dangers of alcohol while being well known, should be re-enforced with our children and teens probably even at school. (3) It is the height of stupidity imo, to argue about adding even more dangerous drugs to the list of alcohol and tobacco, noting of course I have never ever smoked. (4) At best perhaps the least harmful of the illegal drugs, like cannibis may be decriminalised. (5) While DUI with alcohol, generally will see someone under the limit again, within 24 hours, the effects of drug driving with cannibis or any other crap, is 2 to 4 days. For Idiots to claim sarcastically stupidly or otherwise, that the elderly should not vote, when the above points are formulated to protect the young as much as possible, again shows the mentality of some, that believe that because they themselves had moments of weakness in the past to dabble with this illegal crap, we should give everyone else that same choice, is selfish at best and criminal at worst. Sort of bringing as many as possible down to their level. The articles I supplied reflect a view that generally I hold to. Others of course reflect the views held by others here. Society in maintaning the status quo with regards to alcohol and illegal drugs, is democracy in action, and I fully support that stance. I suppose I can expect another hoarde of neg reps from those members that have a guilty concience.

I said as sure "as any parent can be" Perhaps you need to address the author of the article. This discussion also seems to have shown that when one crosses a certain "political line" or have themselves shown weakness in dabbling in illegal drugs, that it will draw their wrath and a hoarde of neg votes. That's sad, and a poor refelction on some. Thankfully the general moral standards of my society, will never see the ignorant banning of alcohol, nor the legitimising of any other drug already on the illegal list, for the reasons given. Yet sadly again, the majority of five or so articles I posted remain unaddressed. I see you got a like rep for that discriminatory comment. Sort of supports what I have said previously about some members here and crossing a certain political line. While at the age of 77 I may be classed as elderly, at least thankfully I am there and thankfully health wise should be around for a while yet. You have yet to get there.

I live in the city, but still have a rain water tank outside for those purposes.

While that is certainly true, it still does not give any logical reason, to legalise those drugs that are currently illegal...Some government prohibitions and laws are absolutely 100% necessary and always will be, at least while stupidity is a common commodity in any society, and evil and wrong doers exist to a lesser extent.

Here's a little ditty that reflects something I did on one, two? occasions....

Aint that so!!!! https://www.newsweek.com/scientific-research-debunks-common-pro-pot-arguments-opinion-1615863 Scientific Research Debunks Common Pro-Pot Arguments | Opinion: In the debate over marijuana legalization, supporters of the pot industry often resort to poor arguments, outdated studies and hyperbole to "bust marijuana myths." Probably correct...I have been drinking alcohol though for 55 years or more, and I am still not compelled to grab a can every day...plus as I said before I never drink alone when out. yes, that's been repeated ad-nauseum by a few, and I say so what? Again alcohol is a social necessity in every walk of life and has been for yonks, despite the physical and mental dangers when taken to excess, over long periods. That is no reason, (only an excuse) to add anything more to the legal list as per alcohol, and cause even more harm then good. Increasing potency is just another reason why this crap should stay banned (as it will) in most socieities. I'm really not that knowledgable with these figures and such, other than they illegal and should stay that way, other then of course for validated medical purposes.

https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2017/09/marijuana-use-associated-increased-risk-prescription-opioid-misuse-use-disorders Marijuana use is associated with an increased risk of prescription opioid misuse and use disorders New research suggests that marijuana users may be more likely than nonusers to misuse prescription opioids and develop prescription opioid use disorder. The study was conducted by researchers at the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), part of the National Institutes of Health, and Columbia University. more.......................................... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2017.17040413 Cannabis Use and Risk of Prescription Opioid Use Disorder in the United States Abstract Objective: The authors sought to determine whether cannabis use is associated with a change in the risk of incident nonmedical prescription opioid use and opioid use disorder at 3-year follow-up. Conclusions: Cannabis use appears to increase rather than decrease the risk of developing nonmedical prescription opioid use and opioid use disorder. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Is that addressed to me? HINT: I have posted now five articles/papers on cannibis. I'm sure if you are interested enough you can chose to read them rather then just my condensed versions.

But don't expect Octopuses to turn into space-faring entities any time soon!!!😁

Another............................. W.H.O. https://www.who.int/teams/mental-health-and-substance-use/alcohol-drugs-and-addictive-behaviours/drugs-psychoactive/cannabis Alcohol, Drugs and Addictive Behaviours Unit: Cannabis extract: Acute health effects of cannabis use The acute effects of cannabis use has been recognized for many years, and recent studies have confirmed and extended earlier findings. These may be summarized as follows: Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabis is used both during learning and recall periods; Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis. Chronic health effects of cannabis use selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes; prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions; development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users; cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals; epithelial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking; airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods; heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort; cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight; cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Another......................... https://www.newsweek.com/scientific-research-debunks-common-pro-pot-arguments-opinion-1615863 Scientific Research Debunks Common Pro-Pot Arguments | Opinion: In the debate over marijuana legalization, supporters of the pot industry often resort to poor arguments, outdated studies and hyperbole to "bust marijuana myths." First and foremost, advocates of marijuana legalization routinely deny that the drug acts as a "gateway" to more dangerous substances. While it's true most people who use marijuana don't go on to use other drugs, the vast majority of those who have tried heroin or cocaine, or prescription drugs used marijuana first. Yes, they also "drank milk first," as some sarcastically exclaim, but there is no mechanism connecting milk and drug use. By contrast, research has indicated that marijuana users are 2.6 times more likely to abuse opioids, perhaps because of the way the brain craves more highs. Some misconstrue the "gateway theory" to imply that use of marijuana causes a person to use heroin immediately afterward. This is not normally the case. The truth is simply that people who use drugs do not normally use just one. MORE AT LINK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179811/ More Reasons States Should Not Legalize Marijuana: Medical and Recreational Marijuana: Commentary and Review of the Literature: Abstract: Recent years have seen substantial shifts in cultural attitudes towards marijuana for medical and recreational use. Potential problems with the approval, production, dispensation, route of administration, and negative health effects of medical and recreational marijuana are reviewed. Medical marijuana should be subject to the same rigorous approval process as other medications prescribed by physicians. Legalizing recreational marijuana may have negative public health effects. Introduction: Recent years have seen a cultural shift in attitudes towards marijuana. At the time of this writing, medical marijuana is legal in 20 states and the District of Columbia; recreational marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado. A substantial and growing literature documents legalized marijuana may have adverse effects on individual and public health. brief extracts: Myth: Marijuana is Not Addictive: A growing myth among the public is that marijuana is not an addictive substance. Data clearly show that about 10% of those who use cannabis become addicted; this number is higher among adolescents........................ Schizophrenia and Other Psychotic Disorders: Marijuana has been consistently shown to be a risk factor for schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders. The risk of psychotic disorder is more pronounced when marijuana is used at an earlier age.............................. Effects on Cognition: Early studies suggested cognitive declines associated with marijuana (especially early and heavy use); these declines persisted long after the period of acute cannabis intoxication................................... Other Negative Health Effects: Substantial evidence exists suggesting that marijuana is harmful to the respiratory system. more at link.................................... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX