beecee

Yes you did. In reply to my statement thus...."Then again perhaps it is more concerned with the level of crime...perhaps US police and Minneapolis Police in particular are more likely to be the victim themselves, and is why the gun is there first option. Thankfully, that situation generally does not exist in Australia." The above was said, actually hypothesised in criticism of police and society in general in the US and Minneapolis in general, particularly in relation to the Floyd case debacle, and in comparing to Australian police where the drawing of a gun is the last resort. Anyone that spits at another person, particularly in the present crisis [which you appear to want to ignore] deserves the full wrath of the law, or private citizen. The only real dysfunctional action was from the woman concerned. And yes, I also remember vaguely a case where it happened with regards to a shop assistant, and the customer was thrown from the store, as she should have been. Don't be silly. The spitting woman was arrested, charged and convicted just as she should have been, and the Policeman involved was exonerated after an inquiry, just as he should have been after experiencing such depravity. Perhaps you missed.....https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/coronavirus-muslim-woman-spits-on-police-officer-in-australia-netizens-call-it-bio-terrorism-video/570720 "In the video, the policeman can be heard saying: "Do not spit on me or I will put you on the ground" and asks her if she can understand why she has been arrested. The woman, however, spat on the officer's face once again after which he yelled "do not spit on me' and slammed the woman onto the ground". Just to once again, make my position clear, the culture of some police forces, and some police, certainly needs to change, but just as obviously, care, caution, and readiness is necessary for police, when confronting criminals or crimes in process. And yes, police in some circumstances, certainly must be given more leeway, as they were in Sydney, in response to the anti mask wearing/anti vax protests/anti health advice and science/redneck ratbags that took part in the illegal march in Sydney. And they handled it with much restraint as possible, against these provocative redneck ratbags, who threatened the health of all Sydneysiders.

It appears that the whole issue of torture, particularly, what is and isn't torture, and how it differs from administered justice and deserved punishment is in itself ambiguous. It is rather nice and gives one a warm inner glow, to hope for a perfect sanitized society, based on philosophical jargon, but it aint gonna happen. All situations are different, and all situations must be taken on their individual merits or otherwise. I have given many cases, illustrating those facts. Some humans are evil and bad, very evil and bad! The softly softly approach sometimes does not work. Sometimes violence deserves and begets justified violence in return, as per my own experiences. Absolutely! So why would you raise it? Are you denying that crimes against police do not exist? Of course it is life threatening! in the current situation. And yes police officers, do and are in my country at least, generally keep their cool. In this current life threatening situation, the woman got exact justice, irrespective of her possible emotional personal position. Police are not punching bags or spittoons. We recently had a law breaking march in Sydney by redneck ratbags, protesting the wearing of masks and lockdowns, thereby threatening in this current situation, the lives of the rest of us. They [the police] were admirable in their handling of the situation and many arrests are still being made of that rabble. The man's colleagues were pictured helping wipe the thick ink from the officer's skin and uniform, as frenzied activists continued to chant anti-vax slogans

Agreed. Corporal punishment per se is not torture, but certainly sometimes administrators of corporal punishment can be and are sadistic. If one enjoys it in the least, I believe they are sadistic. My old man had cause to "slap" me, and there probably was not a child from my generation that was not slapped by their parents for being little bastards. Most of us, the vast majority of us all lived through it and are now comfortably retired without any lasting after effects. We would also cop the strap at school when serious enough. And let me say, yes, out of all my "Christian Brothers" teachers, there was one sadistic bastard amongst them. The rest were pretty good blokes in actual fact. ps: Yes, I have also administered corporal punishment to my Son, and hated the need to do it. He is now a successful IT expert and apparently suffering no ill effects. Beating up prisoners by wardens or Police is wrong and against the law, but hey! let's look into sometimes the reasons why a Policeman may see the need to go beyond what seems normal. We had a case in Sydney where a woman was confronted by a Policeman for speeding...she immediately started being aggresive and swearing, then [as shown on his body cam] spat at him directly in the face. The Policeman literally threw her on the ground and cuffed her before putting her in a paddy wagon and taken away. This Policeman then had to undergo an inquiry into his actions. Seriously, if any of us in this current situation, was the victim of someone spitting on him, what would be your reactions?The woman claimed that she was on her way to get tested for COVID-19 https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/coronavirus-muslim-woman-spits-on-police-officer-in-australia-netizens-call-it-bio-terrorism-video/570720 KEY HIGHLIGHTS 'The woman was travelling at the speed of 120km/h in a 50km/h zone, ran a red light and attacked police' The woman claimed she was on her way to get tested for COVID-19 23,495 people all over the world have died due to coronavirus Sydney: A woman was arrested for allegedly spitting at a police officer in Sydney, Australia. According to local media reports, the woman was travelling at the speed of 120km/h in a 50km/h zone, ran a red light and attacked police. She was pulled over by police at around 5 pm in Greenacre, southwest Sydney, on Friday afternoon but she allegedly refused to get out of her car. She also claimed that she was on her way to get tested for COVID-19. In the video, the policeman can be heard saying: "Do not spit on me or I will put you on the ground" and asks her if she can understand why she has been arrested. The woman, however, spat on the officer's face once again after which he yelled "do not spit on me' and slammed the woman onto the ground. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: On wardens beating up prisoners unecessarily, the full force of the law should be brought down upon them, and in my country that has happened. We also have had the case of a female prison officer, being dismissed for having sexual relations with an inmate. Yes, sometimes sadly, corporal punishment is the only option. Like anything else though, there are always those that take it too far, and sadistically enjoy it. Bingo! Not that up with the mind set of Italian Police. But I would say we all remember the Policeman in the US that had his knee on the throat of a detainee named George Floyd. Four [from memory] were dismissed and the main culprit charged and convicted. Justice was done in that case, just as it should have been. Australian Police personel in general act with more constraint. Even to pull out his weapon, could see an inquiry into why. Bad eggs amongst them, sure! but generally they are OK. The highlighted bit in your statement, surely should be "some" Italian police. If that is not the case, then indeed your Police force needs reformation to the highest degree, just as happened in Minneapolis. Then again perhaps it is more concerned with the level of crime...perhaps US police and Minneapolis Police in particular are more likely to be the victim themselves, and is why the gun is there first option. Thankfully, that situation generally does not exist in Australia.

Some of the philosophical stances portrayed in this thread in my very humble opinion, appear to go from the sublime to the ridiculious.🤮 Before anyone attempts to take that out of context....https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/from-the-sublime-to-the-ridiculous#:~:text=phrase,to something silly or unimportant. Note: If you describe something as going from the sublime to the ridiculous, you mean that it involves a change from something very good or serious to something silly or unimportant.

And our Greek Angel singing a little Italian ditty...... Nana Mouskouri - Oh Mama, Mama - English and Italian and a very young Nana Mouskouri singing another Italian number Nana Mouskouri - Rosso Corallo / Se A Volte (Live - italian TV) My favourite song by the King!

😆 😁 Arvo...Aussie slang for Afternoon!!!

A new sport to the Olympics is skate boarding. It was a real heart warming moment this arvo, when the finals in the skate boarding women's event was decided. Bronxe medalist a 13 year old British lass!! Silver went to an even younger Japanese girl at 12 years of age...The Gold went to Japan also, to an oldie at 21 years old!! The embracing between these children after the event was what makes the Olympics the spectacle it is and always will be. Japan's Sakura Yosozumi (center) and Kokona Hiraki (left) celebrate after winning gold and silver, respectively, in the Women's Skateboarding Park Finals at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games at Ariake Urban Sports Park on August 4, 2021. Sky Brown of Team Great Britain won bronze.

Yes, that is something that saddens many Aussies, particularly those that have seen some of it. The present government is turning a blind eye to the problem, but hopefully, next elections, we may get Labor bacl in again.

The highlighted bits by me I am commenting on.....[1] Agreed we have no way of knowing who or who is not open to reformation and re-education. Those that show they are not open, [as per one of the children in this most horrific torture/murder of a two year old...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger] are the problem/s, and will always be with us. Are we still going to apply the softly softly approach with them? [them being the proven incorrigibles that may prove a danger to society in general] I can assure you also in general I am not "right leaning", in fact I dislike being labeled left, right, atheistic or theist. I see and form opinions based on the scientific methodology and my conscience. I dislike with a fervour the Trumps of this world, and other similar racist rednecks. But then again, sometimes, just sometimes, they make a little bit of sense...An example of right wing agendas in my country [that make a little bit of sense] like yours, are those that want to see punishment/prison time increased, and in certain cases, they are shown to be correct. eg: There have certainly been cases in my country where crimes of violence have seen perpetrators given a slap on the wrist, or like getting sentence deductions for so called "good behaviour", and then re-offending not long afterwards. This happened with the rape of a little girl in a toilet block by an arsehole that was given a sentence reduction and on parole. Are you willing to give such trash another parole reduction for so called good behaviour? And obviously sometimes, just sometimes, left leaning politicians can also make mistakes. eg: Sometimes political correctness can go too far. I may start a thread on that one day. All in all I think I would vote for abolishing the death penalty [which it is in Australia] for the reasons I gave previously, mainly being the number of executions carried out and later DNA confirmation that the person executed was innocent. I cannot think of anything worse. [2] I agree with no torture physical 100%, and accept the different application of that from just torture as you mentioned, but irrespective many see imprisoment as torture, and particularly reactionary scenarios from fellow inmates. As I said, I hate bullies, and when that bullying situations involve me or mine, then I will handle it with whatever force is necessary, as per my example. Can I relate another personal example? When my Son was around 4 years old and not long after we moved into our new house, he made friends with a little boy [smaller then him] just down the road from us. Then after a time, he started coming in crying. Asked what happened and he would say that Andrew [the other little boy hit him] My wife being a good church going Christian, virtually told my Son to "turn the other cheek. After this happened a few times, him coming in crying, I became infuriated and grabbed him one day before the Mrs could get to him, and told him that next time Andrew hit him, to whack him back as hard as he could. On the day in question I was in the garden and watching them ride their tricycles up and down the street. Andrew by the way had two older brothers who unbeknowns to me were egging Andrew on. Anyway I see one of them whisper something to Andrew and Andrew then hit my young bloke. My Son, to his credit, whacked him back with a lovely hay maker which sent Andrew packing! Long story short, my Son and Andrew, 40 years later are still the best of mates and were best men at each others wedding. And even though they have moved on, his parents and me and the Mrs, still socialise with them. My Son by the way, is slightly coloured as the wife is Fijian...not sure if this was the underlying reason/s why all this started. Another reason why I hate bullies and did say, "Many criminals are bullies, many bullies are cowards and hate pain being inflicted on their person." I hope that helps in showing where I am coming from.

Nice, great to see! But still we will always have some who will never be re-educated or reformed...In fact some will certainly attempt to use that part of the Italian constitution, or any similar part of any Nation's constitution for their own benefit. Some would see any imprisoment as torture, particularly in cases from fellow inmates.

Choises are made, simple as that. Criminals, real criminals,make decisions...they may have excuses, hard times etc, but others also have been in similar circumstances and risen above simply taking the easy way out. What I said in my first post to this thread was, "Many criminals are bullies, many bullies are cowards and hate pain being inflicted on their person." That's generally up to the individual concerned, and how much he or she wants to be part of the human race, or an outcaste from. Some can certainly be reformed, others like one of the Monsters in the link I gave, obviously cannot, and is a danger to society. What do you do in that case? https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/james-bulger-killers-jon-venables-robert-thompson-murder-now-221759 What happened to Jon Venables? The child murderer was born 13 August 1982, making him ten-years-old when he abducted Bulger from the New Strand Shopping Centre. He was found guilty, alongside Thompson, on 24 November 1993 – when the pair became the youngest people convicted of murder in English history. Venables was given extensive rehabilitation during his time in a young offenders’ institute and was issued with a new identity after leaving. His identity has been changed twice since, after he compromised his identity and told friends he was a convicted murderer. His current identity faced a legal threat in February 2018, 25 years after the murder, when Bulger’s father launched High Court proceedings to try and remove Venables’ entitlement to anonymity. The lawyer representing Bulger’s father and uncle argued that the right to anonymity had only been granted on the understanding Venables did not re-offend. As Venables has been convicted of crimes since, they wanted his lifelong privacy revoked. Bulger’s mother, however, disagreed and argued that the anonymity should be maintained to avoid vigilante justice. The father lost his legal challenge and the Attorney General’s office concluded the injunction was still necessary and justified. Has Jon Venables committed other crimes? In 2008, seven years after being released from prison, Venables was arrested after a drunken fight and was given a formal warning by the probation service. He was also given a caution for being in possession of Class A drug cocaine. Two years later he was sent back to prison after he was found with images of child sexual abuse. The Parole Board recommended his release in 2013. However, in 2017 he was arrested again for possessing child abuse images, and sentenced to 40 months behind bars in February 2018, almost 25 years to the day after he murdered Bulger. In August 2019, his father warned that Venables will soon be on parole from his most recent period behind bars. A parole hearing is expected to be held in October, half way through his prison sentence for the most recent offence. Mr Bulger said: “Venables is up for parole any time now, and if it is granted he will be released into the community under a fake name and secret new identity. “He is a dangerous, predatory child abuser and killer, and I am terrified he will strike again and harm another child like my James.” more here...https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/james-bulgers-killer-tells-prison-chiefs-he-doesnt-want-to-be-freed-as-he-fears-hell-reoffend/news-story/b106b08d4f0fddcdf328218ca288e8f0 "James Bulger’s evil killer Jon Venables has begged prison chiefs to keep him locked up as he fears he will reoffend, a source reveals". These were kids and their crime was anything but typical. But another question for you...Can any excuse be made for what they did? An account here of there upbringing.... https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/nov/01/bulger.familyandrelationships Thompson and Venables grew up in circumstances which had both striking similarities and profound differences. Both boys had parents who had separated; each had difficulties with attendance, learning and behaviour at school. They bunked off, they shoplifted, they were violent; all these pieces in a pattern that made up a pair of empty, broken young lives. Before their trial in November 1993, the press ferreted around the doorways and back alleys of Walton village, Liverpool, looking for any thing that might determine that these two 10-year-olds were indeed evil or the product of evil. Neighbours told of pigeons having their heads shot off with an airgun, of rabbits being tied to railway lines, of dawn rollerbooting sessions. There were tales of charity collection boxes being stolen and of children being assaulted in the classroom. Exaggeration and gossip aside, a picture of neglect slowly emerged, a picture that focused on the pair's "bad parents", with the Daily Mail pronouncing: "Jon Venables, perhaps inevitably, is the classic product of a broken home." Ann Thompson was portrayed as an incompetent alcoholic, while Susan Venables was painted as a loose woman whose neighbours "noted a procession of men friends for Mrs Venables". A narrative emerged of two childhoods influenced not merely by the flaws of parents or the absence of a father, but by the environment in which these boys lived, a world of social and economic deprivation, of trashy television and cultural poverty, inadequate social services, failed schooling and general confusion. It was a place that left a moral vacuum for two children who would go on to kill and leave the unanswered question: why did they do it? """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" So they had anything but a worthwhile, decent upbringing. Many others do also, some far worse. And if you believe that this was anything more then a simple thrill killing, then think again. What they did do this toddler, was prolonged torture and mutilation and cruelty, animalistic and barbaric. How do you handle such a case? Can I relate another incident? When I was a young hairy arse little 10 year old, going to school [a Christian Brothers Catholic school] I obtained what at the time was a rage among kids...a Coca Cola badge! I was proudly wearing it when class had ended and was heading home but still in the school grounds, when I was confronted by the school bully...a boy 12 years old and a class ahead of me. He ripped off my badge and threw it ontop of the church confessional roof...enraged I swung with all my might, my globite suit case at his head. It drew blood, and before he could retaliate, the principal arrived, took us both into his office, asked me what happened and then told me to go home. My well known bully adversary was less fortunate then I and after first aid, was kept in and told to write a hundred lines with regards to bullying. He never ever confronted me again. Another question I will ask you [I raised and commented on earlier]...which would be worse, a state endorsed execution or life imprisoment? In summing up, I hate bullies.

We all break laws from time to time, be it simply traffic laws, parking infringements, or jay walking [which I have done] that doesn't make us criminal. Being a law abiding citizen? Brave, foolhardy, certainly...but plenty of bullies also, as per the example I gave. No argument on any of those points, other then to say that justice still needs to be seen to be done, including attempts at reformation. Did you read, or are you familiar with this case? .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger The other side of the world from me, but remember it well, and certainly had me really disturbed as to how any child could undertake such bizzare inhuman action. One actually appeares to have reformed, the other not. My own Son was 11 years old at the time...same age as the two who undertook this indescribable inhumane action.

Good question, but perhaps as per the two chidren that murdered the toddler, it will reveal itself....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger one certainly appeared incorrigible.... Perhaps, I'm not really sure. How do you do that? How do you tell who is going to be vicious and/or criminally insane? I have a thought though...as I said, bullies, cowards, and criminals are generally one and the same. Perhaps if bullies were stood up to early in life? Not sure if this is relevant but around 20 years ago, just a couple of days before Chrissy, I was in a 7/11 store, standing about fifth in line waiting to be served. Suddenly around five or six young little arseholes burst in and started yahooing and knocking things of the shelves, including tipping over a "slurpy machine" making a mess, then in that usual cowardly fashion, started to all run out of the store, passed me and the other people waiting to be served by the two Asian lasses that were working there. They were obviously distraught, and I was thinkiing along the lines of "bloody little arseholes, why are they doing this!" As they ran by me, I instinctively through out my right arm [Rugby League stiff arm style] and caught the last bugger around the shoulders and neck...down he went with me on top of him! His friends continued on running and as per their bully/cowardly style failed to offer any help. Make a long story short, the Police were called, and they took the young fella away who then ratted on the others. Two weeks later, I hear a knock on the door. There he was [the young bloke I stiff armed, with his parents, who gratefully thanked me for my actions, enabling them to also chastice their Son and at least have something to say about the company he was keeping. Your last question is a doozy.

http://www.fitzroyisland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Great-Barrier-Reef-Port-Douglas.jpg Fitzroy Island: Great Barrier Reef. It's a marine playground and one of the most impressive natural scenarios our planet has to offer. Welcome to the Great Barrier Reef (GBR), Earth's largest living structure.

I quite agree with that in actual fact, but how do we sought out the never ending undesirable consequences of "an eye for an eye" from Justice should be seen to be done and separating the incorridgables from society, where they obviously pose a danger?

Many criminals are bullies, many bullies are cowards and hate pain being inflicted on their person. What do you do with criminals that are unable to be reformed, or refuse to be reformed and will always be a danger to society. One terrible unbelievable actually, case that comes to mind occured in England involving a little 2 year old boy. It is in reality even too upsetting to discuss, but I'm sure members here from the British Isles will remember...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger In Australia, we have also had our share of incorridgable criminals, one notable case being the following....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anita_Cobby Before anyone gets me wrong, no, I am not advocating being "hung drawn and quartered" but sometimes it seems like being caught between a rock and a hard place! Obvious "flaw" with the death penalty is the chance of a wrongful conviction. Here are some...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#Australia

Many things happen that we don't understand properly, and many more things have happened in the past, that science has in time explained. The awesome nature of the world and universe around us, the evolution of life, the wonders of the brain, conciousness and such, has many of us searching for answers. Science has answered most, but not all. The beauty of science though [which strangely, you seem to dismiss] is that it can and is modified/changed as further observational and experimental evidence comes to light. Your NDE experience, is obviously subjective, and your attempt to explain it via supernatural, unscientific means is likewise subjective. There is no doubt other reasons, some of which have already been aired here.

Not sure of anything along the lines of further confirmation, or not, But the finding of a meteorite in the Antarctic, thought to have originated on Mars, and called ALH84001, has been found to contain microscopic bacteria, thereby suggesting that they originated on Mars It is not the first Martian rock to be found on Earth, which further suggests the possibility of Earth rocks on Mars. And Earth rocks with similar Earth based microscopic bacteria on Mars.

When we get down to the nitty gritty, everyone's life is there own. I'm not sure how I would feel if diagnosed with a terminal disease, and be in constant agonising pain. It wouldn't be nice that's for sure, and I can understand how a person in that predicament may feel like ending it. I remember a case where a husband assisted his terminally ill wife to end it. To that end, I support euthenasia to end such suffering, if agreed to by the sufferer. For anyone else thinking of ending it due to for example, cronic depression, drugs etc, or similar, then seeking the best psychological medical advice is a must, particularly if that person is youngish. A responsible society should make sure such advice is always at hand.

The core of the Sun is most definitely not Iron. Our Sun does not even get close in fusion of the heavier elements.

The goal of science is to explain, the world and the universe around us, with explanations, based on observational and experimental evidence. It's us humans that chose to use that knowledge for good and improve technology for our collective benefit, or for greed or personal benefit. That is "applied science"

There are of course other aspects that unite humanity...extreme human endeavour and/or conquest in conjunction with science being one. The first that comes to mind being the first man made Satellite, Sputnik...then Yuri Gagarin being the first man in space...these were followed by the Apollo 11 and the Moon landing. Then obviously the near disaster with Apollo X111. All of course science related. The ISS is currently still an International effort. And as I have said a few times on this forum, the efforts to put boots on Mars, would I believe, be substantially improved and brought forward by an International co-operative effort and undertaking.

Not sure who is at fault there, but my position simply is, that sports are in the main good for you in many ways, including [as per my many examples] unifification of people, and nations etc, be that amateur or professional. Of course like any human endeavour/venture/pastime, there are some who misuse and abuse it. The title of this thread is "What aspect of human society unites us" Sport is one of those.

Personally I abhore being catagorised and pidgeon holed, being whether I am Atheistic, leftish or rightish in my views, and how that aligns with IQ. My views are entirely based on what's best for the vast majority, whether that is left or right of the political spectrum. We have right wing ratbags, and their "F%$# you I'm alright Jack" that are obviously intelligent based on IQ, and we also have the extreme political correctness being pushed and sometimes undertaken by those that see them selves on the left. Both obviously see themselves as morally correct. Neither are. Not sure what my IQ is now at the twilight of my life, but I do try and practise what is best for the majority, be that left, right, theistic or atheist, and that I believe [and hope] aligns with the scientific methodology. So endith the rantings of this old fart!