chandragupta

To Bill Angil. Thanks for sharing your thought .Weather God exists or not is dependent on one's faith at present. There is no empirical evidence at present to confirm GOD's existence. This is the universe- size weakness in the argument of existence of god. My idea of God is merely a theory like thousands of other ideas of God which requires empirical or scientific proof. There is a phrase in ADWAIT- VEDANTA re. the issue of proof of the existence of God. This is called " APAROKSHA - ANUBHUTI OF PARMATMA" which is translated in English as "DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF GOD". Till great majority of human beings can directly experience the existence of God by some means , the idea of God will merely be a theory .

Thanks. My understanding of adwaita or nondualism is not very deep. So could I very humbly request you to improve upon it or even correct it completely from the perspective of your own knowledge, personal experience & scholarship ?

Immortal: Thanks for support. If by repeated contemplation & meditation on the lines propounded above, man succeeds in acquiring the aforesaid perspective which is higher than that of the wakeful state & thus begins to accept the possibility that wakeful state universe might also be as unreal as the dream sleep state universe, then it is inevitable that he would ask the question :-" then, what is the source of all this unreality called wakeful state universe ? Therefore the idea of adwaita or nondualism attempts to answer this very question by putting forward a tentative view that this wakeful state universe is a self-willed dream of a higher being aka god & hence this iconic idea of adwaita or nondualism that "before the beginning of time & at the end of time god becomes dimensionless awareness AND after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes four dimensional space time".

This experience of man in his dream sleep state that he becomes dimensionless awareness who perceives four dimensional dream world all within himself is very significant in adwaitic or nondualistic thought. This is so because of the original idea of god in adwaita or nondualism which is :-"Before the beginning of time & after the end of time god becomes dimensionless awareness & after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes four dimensional space time". For man wakeful state universe is real from his wakeful state perspective. For man dream sleep state universe is real from his dream sleep perspective Man says :- dream sleep state universe is unreal from his wakeful state perspective. Idea of adwaita or nondualism says :- by repeated contemplation & meditation man can reach a perspective higher than wakeful state perspective & from this higher perspective he would then realize that even the wakeful state universe is as unreal as his dream sleep state universe.

Night dream state experience of human beings is unusual in another way & it is this :- In this state, man, even though he remains an aware being, is unaware of the physical body of his wakeful state & not only that he is also unaware of the entire wakeful universe. Furthermore, as said earlier, man perceives a dream universe in this state which appears to him as being 'real' while he is in this state. Thus in his dream sleep state man becomes dimensionless awareness who perceives four dimensional dream world.

In the idea of adwaita or nondualism special attention is given to the dream-sleep state experience of humanity. This state of humanity is unique in the sense that during it man is an aware being & perceives a non-self willed dream world which he regards as 'real' while undergoing this dream- sleep experience . Extrapolating from the dream sleep state experience of humanity, idea of adwaita or nondualism makes a suggestion - could this human experience of waking state also be a dream experience initiated by dimensionless awareness ?

According to the idea of adwaita or nondualism structure of space is that of awareness, more particularly that of dimensionless awareness , who has become four dimensional space time by the process of self- willed dreaming from the beginning of time & would remain so till the end of time.

This raises the intriguing scientific question :- as to what is the nature & structure of space?

I am now taking the adwaitic or nondualistic idea further. Thus, in this hypothesis of adwaita or nondualism, cosmic space is conceived as 'mind of god'. Here the word 'mind' is being used very tentatively on account of the lack of a better term on my part at present. This idea of adwaita or nondualism that cosmic space can be conceived as mind of god takes us one step further & it is this :- That we, no no, not only we but the entire universe of space time exists inside the mind of god as a mere dream.

To sum up, adwaitic or nondualistic idea is that before the beginning of time & after the end of time god becomes dimensionless awareness AND after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes four dimensional space time AND this idea could be expressed in the form of a formula which, (with due debt to Einstein), is as follows :- A = e = mc2 . Here A represents awareness (dimensionless awareness I.e. god ), e represents energy , m represents mass (I.e. matter). In this idea the process by which dimensionless awareness aka god becomes four dimensional space time is called self- willed dreaming on the part of this dimensionless awareness. In human experience this self- willed dreaming is the phenomenon called day dreaming. The big issue is can this whole idea be tested by scientists? To sum up, adwaitic or nondualistic idea is that before the beginning of time & after the end of time god becomes dimensionless awareness AND after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes four dimensional space time AND this idea could be expressed in the form of a formula which, (with due debt to Einstein), is as follows :- A = e = mc2 . Here A represents awareness (dimensionless awareness I.e. god ), e represents energy , m represents mass (I.e. matter). In this idea the process by which dimensionless awareness aka god becomes four dimensional space time is called self- willed dreaming on the part of this dimensionless awareness. In human experience this self- willed dreaming is the phenomenon called day dreaming. The big issue is can this whole idea be tested by scientists?

Thanks Peter: Your thought requires lots of thinking over. I agree, some predictions are necessary. You mentioned earlier that you already have some predictions. Is it possible for you to share them with me on PM.

The counterpart in human beings ( of this self-willed dreaming process of dimension awareness I.e. god ) is called ' day dreaming'. Thus in adwaitic or nondualistic parlance -space time energy matter complex- is hypothesized as being a kind of day dream of dimensionless awareness aka god.

Peter : What do you think of expressing the same idea which we discussed together a short while earlier, in another way which also does not seem to be dogmatic so as not to draw the ire of atheists. This is as follows :- In adwaitic or nondualistic hypothesis the process by which the dimensionless awareness I.e. god becomes energy- matter duo can be described as a kind of self- willed dreaming process on the part of this dimensionless awareness.

Thanks Peter: you are absolutely right. I now correct myself & put the idea in the manner you have suggested that the universe is as if it were a dream of god.

In other words, according to adwaitic or nondualistic idea, universe is a dream of god.

In adwaitic or nondualistic idea the process by which the dimensionless awareness becomes energy- matter duo is awarenessball self- willed dreaming process.

Adwaitic idea or nondualistic idea that before the beginning of time & after the end of time god becomes dimensionless awareness AND after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes four dimensional space time can be expressed as a formula which,with due debt to Einstein, is represented as follows:- A = e = mc2 where A represents dimensionless awareness of god , e represents energy & m represents mass ( i.e. matter). This formula expresses the adwaitic or nondualistic idea of equivalence or interchangeability of dimensionless awareness on one hand & that of energy-matter duo on the other.

I invite all adwaitic thinkers or nondualist thinkers to come forward & join in the following reconfigured idea of formless god & formation & dissolution of space time:- BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF TIME & AFTER THE END OF TIME GOD BECOMES DIMENSIONLESS AWARENESS AND AFTER THE BEGINNING OF TIME & BEFORE THE END OF TIME GOD BECOMES FOUR DIMENSIONAL SPACE TIME.

Dekan: Thanks. I have myself wondered many times on your lines. Impossible at present is to include awareness into any form of extreme mathematics available to date. Till Einsteins of the present & the future invent another kind of Mathematical model which could enable awareness to take part into the " theory of every thing", god model of humanity will only be a theory. Peter: I could not retrieve your your message because of my computer - illiteracy. Don't mind the flake. Let us move the adwaitic dialogue forward together. We owe it to this thread. Also remember, it is is you who brought me back into this thread when onslaught from all sides had forced me to retreat.

Thanks. This has not come out from any external source. This has come out from my own inner self. I hope you would accept this.

Peter: To take our adwaitic dialogue further from the stage where we left it earlier :- I considered your view re. the word 'point' & the word 'consciousness'. I now reconfigure the idea & pose the question :- Before the beginning of time & at the end of time god becomes "dimensionless awareness" AND after the beginning of time & before the end of time god becomes " four dimensional space time".

Immortal :- I am so pleased to have met you through this cyber space. Lots of things you have stated, strike a chord. The issue of quantum singularity & its infinities joining up with adwatic ' one & only formless', this you found extremely controversial & I respect that. As I said in earlier post, the meeting of the two will be very very difficult & will probably be impossible. The point here I shall like to emphasize is that great bulk of my thoughts re. Adwaita are in complete resonance with your posting above.

PeterJ. : You stated:- " The trouble is that there is, as far as I know, not one good book exploring the ramifications of this view for physics. I am trying to write something modest, but before I go any further I need to find a competent physicist, who will help me insure that I don't make a dammed fool of myself in the process". Peter , I request you very very strongly to go ahead with your above mentioned plan. Meanwhile , we shall keep our dialogue continuing & hopefully some more people who are viewing this site & feel connected with the idea of non dualism & of quantum world, will gather courage & join us in a constructive way to lend support & also root out extraneous elements.

Immortal :- I whole heartedly agree with the very last bit of your statement 'they don't fit so easily'. Very very difficult indeed would be this journey. May even be impossible. But try we must even if we fail. We all live or die with our dreams & hopes. Thanks for your your wonderful input. I shall always remember constructive criticism of your's .

Welcome to this extraordinary world of adwaita or non dualism & reconciliation with the extraordinary world of quanta. Now the journey begins to explore the twilight zone where these two worlds will meet one day (as meet they must).