DonJStevens

Hello Martin, When you have an opportunity, would you look at "Ring singularity" at: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/discussionpost/Electron_as_a_ring_singularity_56595 In this concept, the fundamental length is (3/2) exponent 1/2 times the Planck length because this length is based on a photon orbit radius rather than a Schwarzschild radius. An equation can then be developed that defines an electron mass value that has a specific relationship to the Planck mass. The quantized electron mass value found is (h/4pi c) (c/3pi hG) exponent 1/4 kilogram. Don Stevens

Hi Pete, When (if) you see the Burinskii paper, you will note that Burinskii finds the electron to be much like a geon. He uses the word "microgeon" on page 2. The microgeon is a photon that is self-confined by its own gravitational field or as J. A. Wheeler has said "--a gravitating body made entirely of electromagnetic fields--". In the Burinskii model, limit space curvature (and spin) prevents the electron from flying apart. Limit space curvature is expected at (and within) the photon sphere radius for any gravitationally collapsed mass.

Hi Yuri, Do you think the Planck length and Planck time relate to non reducible space-time bits? Do these quantities of space or time relate to any quantity that is physical? An argument can be made that they do relate. What do you think?

Hi Yuri, We can talk much about John Wheeler if you like. His quote from the book "Gravitation" (by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, page 1215) is quite interesting: "What else can a (subatomic) particle be but a fossil from the most violent event of all, gravitational collapse?" and later "That an electron here has the same mass as an electron there is also a triviality or a miracle. It is a triviality in quantum electrodynamics because it is assumed rather than derived. -- No acceptable explanation for the miraculous identity of particles of the same type has ever been put forward. That identity must be regarded, not as a triviality, but as a central mystery of physics." An answer to this mystery seems to require quantized space-time and quantized energy: these may be the bits that make all that we observe.

Hi Pete, The stable existance of electrons is very hard to explain so theorists will continue to work on this puzzle until a workable model is developed. The gravitational confinememt model proposed by Burinskii is interesting because he defines the force that is needed to prevent the electron from flying apart. You can see his paper titled "Kerr Geometry as Space-Time Structure of the Dirac Electron" with no cost. In Wikipedia, go to "Black hole electron", under "References" click on the Burinskii paper. It is last on the reference list. I think you will find that the paper is interesting even if you don't agree with it.

Hi Pete, Recall that a black hole with maximal spin (angular momentum) does not have elevated temperature. Electrons have limit (maximal) angular momentum so they don't emit Hawking radiaton. When an electron and positron come together, their opposite angular momentum values are added so that they cancel. The new particle has immediate high temperature and explodes, radiating at least two photons (or at a lower probability more than two photons). The confined electron mass particles are converted to photon energy (annihilated) by the Hawking radiation process. In the Burinskii electron model, the electron is a ring singularity. It is not required to be collapsed to its Schwarzschiled radius in order to be gravitationally confined (stabilized by spin and self-gravitational attraction). The electron

Hi vacuodynamic, A quote from the book, Gravitation by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler (page 1215) relates to your post, "What else can a (subatomic) particle be but a fossil from the most violent event of all, gravitational collapse?". If a proton particle is in fact, formed by gravitational collapse, then we would expect that it is gravitationally confined just as the electron appears to be. The proton is a more complex particle than the electron, so it may some significant time before relationships (equations) can be developed that could give substance to the concept, that the proton is black hole related. We may be quite close however to defining the relationships to show that the muon is black hole related.

Hi Mr Skeptic, Your clever idea is not new but it is an idea whose time has come. Brian Greene, John Wheeler, Alexander Burinskii along with many other accomplished theorsts have found a connection between black holes and elementary particles. We can now specify the relationship of the electron mass to the Planck mass and the relationship of the electron Compton wavelength to the Planck length. This is quite significant. These developments are needed so that we can merge general relativity and quantum mechanics.

Alexander Burinskii has concluded that the electron is a gravitationally confined entity (much like a black hole) but its angular momentum is so high that it is a naked singularity without an event horizon. See "Black hole electron" and Talk in wikipedia.