Pymander

Throughout history innovative thinkers have had to contend with tides of herd prejudice. Even mythology is replete with such creative intellects, and sometimes, discoveries will change mythology to history + symbolic embellishments, like the story of Troy. Examples of both types include Moses (the Ten Commandments), Jesus (Yeshua ben Yoseph, Sermon on the Mount), Origen Adamantius (Biblical eschatology, many writers today believe that Origen and Origenism were anathematised by the Roman Catholic Church, but an equal number deny this), Martin Luther (triggered the reformation revealing the true teachings of the Bible, hitherto in Latin), Galileo Galilei (challenged Geocentric Astronomy), Isaac Newton (believed in Astrology), Carl Jung (believed in Astrology), and Albert Einstein (challenged the existence absolute space and time, included the observer as an essential element of physical quantities, ideas previously occult). Herd prejudices are often initiated by despotic authorities dispensing arbitrary judgements and associated laws, hypocritically exploiting mediocrity. Much, though, is to force the evolution of intelligence necessary for civilised coexistence and cooperation. Void of intelligence and resulting foresight, mankind innately accepts prejudices and situations from limited perspectives, and resists change thereby beyond comprehension. (Aside to Swansont: happy to cut and paste entire article. Rome wasn't built in a day. How about a level playing field.)

No refutation for post #59, just taboos to filter answers, but the questions requiring them are okay? And 1767 views means nothing, even in record time? I think I'll stick to chess.

I'm coming with you.

koti: Pymander, how can someone a learned as you believe such foolishness as Hermetic philosophy. Pymander: Because, Sir, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton and John Dee have studied it, and you have not.

All of the sciences are based on hypotheses which model each respective field of research or knowledge. To my mind, chemistry is quite possibly the only rock-solid field. They seem to range from subatomic physics to geology and astronomy in one sense, or to psychology in another, with palaeontology a blend of both. We cannot determine that the senses (earth element to Hermetic philosophers) are or are not some kind of psychic phenomenon, or stated differently, whether the universe has an existence independent of the observer (the key element of Relativity Theory), as claimed by Einstein. From the Hermetic point of view, separate existence and companionship are facilitated by God having created souls in His own image, being irreducible consciousness, and thus giving consciousness to those souls, so that our being is the division of that consciousness into seven levels, the elements symbolised by earth, water, fire and air being the perception of the universe, or elements of nature. From the atheist viewpoint, we now have mass-energy as the source of our evolution and being, and we are very finite in time, rather than eternal, returning to the cosmic dust from evolving galaxies, stars and planets. Here is the problem. These two perspectives, the Hermetic (Emerald Tablet & The Divine Pymander of Hermes) and Materialism (what atheists call science) are indistinguishable, which by scientific principle (to some), would imply that they are equivalent hypotheses for our existence. General Relativity employed the equivalence principle to determine the effects of gravity on space and time for any specific observer in a different non-inertial frame. Einstein stated that acceleration or inertial force and gravity are indistinguishable and therefore each has the same effects. I believe as Einstein probably did, and as Edgar Cayce stated (through his psychic readings), that all force is one force. Edgar Cayce's readings claimed it to be "what we call electricity", so ... electric fields, which propagate at the speed of light c. Our argument, then, boils down to whether we believe that the principle of equivalence is universally valid or not. The Hermetic perspective, of course, implies mysticism in the sense of design. Einstein said "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest is details." The Materialistic perspective alone asks a lot of "natural" laws to effect the evolution, possibly from light as the original creation (electro-magneto-inertial energy in all likelihood, with an anti-photon balancing every photon as matter & antimatter do, currently called the neutrino as well as dark energy), of intelligent and creative life, in my opinion. Hermetic Philosophy underlies the Bible and other world-wide scriptures and traditions of unknown antiquity. My concept of God has thus been defined in scientific summation, and as far as I can see, is not inconsistent with our objective reality. Without God, of course, there are no miracles, fates, souls, prophecies, psychics nor any other supernatural phenomena. We can not prove, only verify or disprove our hypotheses with evidence. We are free to chose which hypotheses we wish to believe. Choose for yourself. Who knows if we are writing to our fates that we must march in columns of four to the strains of a band after taking oaths to kill on command. If God exists, He certainly allows free will on the matter of believing it. That may be, if so, the gravity of ignoring this question. The belief may also be a privilege that needs to be earned and acquired through seeking.

Dim Reaper - if you must avoid blind faith, determine for yourself whether there is a God or not. I can't think of a more important question, nor a more neglected question, that anyone can ask.

Why the Bible in particular? It is probably the best scripture, but I certainly haven't read the Talmud, like Einstein, and it may be better, I don't now. The Bhagavad Gita preaches the same morality. The Isha Upanishad (translated by Sri Aurobindo) is extremely profound, especially when elucidated by his commentary. But the Hindu religion is a very ancient vestige of the early Egyptian, perhaps likewise evolved with the people like the Bible as the Judeo-Christian Tradition. Jews and Christians however no longer share the same eschatology. The removal of reincarnation (resurrection) from the doctrine leaves Christianity at pains to demonstrate consistency. It is fairly plainly described in Job chapter 1 KJV, and discussed in John chapter 3 KJV between Nicodemus and Jesus. The prophecy concerning the Gospels, to be preached to every nation is significant, and fulfilled. The Dutch version I have is a virtual transliteration of the King James English. The history of English, concerning John Dee and Queen Elisabeth establishing the British navy, and without heir, King James ascending the throne, taking lessons from Nicolo Machioveli's "The Prince", and his meticulous publication, in peasant language, for all to read, from original texts, producing the most exact Bible to the present, all appear to me to be hand of God toward fulfilment of prophecy. At the same stroke, English became the universal language. And the power vacuum created by the collapse of the Roman empire was filled by the Church which held sway until the reformation throughout Europe. But coincidence to Einstein is God's way of staying anonymous. It is also an explanation used by liars and fools.

DrKrettin, do you seriously believe that I am not in the slightest measure capable of critical judgement. That assertion, to me, says the same about you, considering the information you have about me. I would not be surprised if the extent of my research far exceeds your own. Upon completion of studies described in the second post of this thread, I decided specifically to investigate, without constraint other than the only determinant of falsehood - inconsistency - whether God exists. Truth, except in mathematics and logic, does not exist, only consistency, and that only as long as it lasts before evidence blows some of our hypotheses away. Remember that time and space were considered absolute, even implicitly, before Einstein detected this implicit but false hypothesis of science. To me, science harbours another just like it, implicitly maintaining that there is no God, and anything therefore which requires God as part of its explanation is false. For this reason, critical judgement is seriously impaired by mainstream scientists concerning everything supernatural. Like absolute time and space, the non-existence of God is, to me, a false hypothesis, contradicted just as the Michelson-Morley experiment contradicted classical physics. Based on a study of the Edgar Cayce readings, and associated research, including a thorough knowledge of the Bible, I have determined that this information, in particular, could not possibly exist unless there is a God. But like all evidence, the hypothesis supported is only more likely true with the weight of evidence, and the best we can do is to ascribe a probability, while contrary evidence is not discovered. On that basis, I would ascribe a very small probability to these phenomena (Bible + Edgar Cayce readings) having another explanation than God for their existence. I am extremely sure that some such explanation is required, like a super-computer messing with Cayce's brain from a highly advanced alien space ship. But none offered on this forum, like Cayce being a fraud, explain the 86.3 MB of Cayce readings I have studied (the Bible and Apocrypha constitutes only 5.04 MB).

Manticore, neither your opinion nor mine on the subject of the Bible would compare to Albert Einstein's authoritative knowledge base and proven genius. You opinion seems to derive from the other extreme, or else you are being belligerent. Have you anything more worthwhile to contribute?

DrKrettin, thanks for the courtesy of a respectful response. I would like to address it in some detail. I am now in edit mode, required to prevent losing text through crashes and restarting replies. When I'm done, it will be signed off. "Certainly. Plato mentions it. No more evidence." This is so typical of guarded academic discounting. Charles Berlitz has written a book, correlating the "mention" with a wide variety of "no more evidence". For the mentally challenged, it spells a huge and detailed dialogue has been supported with a ton of evidence. After sorties of the Aristocratic flavour, how many bleat likewise, do you think, without a second thought. Trained to absorb lecture content and repeat at examination time with little time to think, and less to research, tackling a variety of courses simultaneously, and gleaning the supplied and suggested texts and sources for assignment purposes, following strict criteria for negotiable points, is a recipe for a herd mentality with one other choice - a very bad investment that is growing, for education, health and legals that should be free and equally available. Why is it otherwise? Luke 11:52-54 KJV. I have proven this much to myself by trying to be thorough, only to fail for lack of time, and deciding to hire myself from the neck down instead, to free my mind from the devil's power (tarot card XV, Revelation chapter XV + I KJV, meaning: domination and spiritual destruction through human weakness) and his bribery. What have I gained? Eternal life, because I have come to accept reincarnation, and its corollary, karma, is no longer a flaming sword, turning every way, preventing me taking of the fruit of the tree of life. Hast thou understood that aright? Compare Genesis 3:24 and Revelation 2:7, children's stories metamorphosing into mysteries. Do you know what will happen to your PhD if you depart your Aristocratic boundaries. You will join Carl Jung, James Maxlow, and believe it or not, even Albert Einstein, and become marginalised under the label "crackpot". I have only addressed the first line of your post, but I'd better leave it here, and allow a response. Over.

DrKrettin, if I may, upon what evidence then do you base your opinion that Atlantis is just a myth?

Right, I'm not done yet. Why? Because the pot is calling the kettle black. Everything I am accused of is like the atheists among you is looking in the mirror. Moreover, your grasp of history is for the most part jack. I'm not talking about your ability to memorise black and white text and regurgitate it. I'm talking about which end or the previous regurgitator you got some of it from, ad nauseum. Atlantis is myth, they say. Atlantis is myth, you parrot. How much research have you invested in certifying this, or anything else for that matter. (Remember my fair friends, that I am forced to hand type this.) Text of Reading 958-3 F 31 (Divorced , Secretary, Protestant) This psychic reading given by Edgar Cayce at his home on Arctic Crescent, Virginia Beach, VA., this 28th day of June, 1940, in accordance with request made by self - Miss [958], new Associate Member of the Ass''n of Research & Enlightenment Inc., recommended by her sister, Mrs. [1100]. ... 43. This brought consternation to the entity, and also those influences the application or use of which brought destruction to the land. And Poseidia will be among the first portions of Atlantis to rise again. Expect it in sixty-eight and sixty-nine ('68 and '69); not so far away! [see 958-3, Par. R5] This long shot prediction eventuated where and when predicted. That's fact. That's prophecy. The "Bimini Road" will raise the fulfilment on the net. That's supernatural, because as Jesus stated, God alone knows the future, and the blind pt byeman could see God's hand in his healing, but you cannot see at all while you shut your eyes and remain willingly ignorant. Cayce was according to the readings, doing the work of the Master of masters. Which brings us to another point. If Atlantis existed, and as Plato's history records in the dialogue "Critias and Timaeus", they had a science hoary with age (25,000 years unlike ours, 11,500 since the Flood or Ice Age), then accordingly, ancient wisdom is most certainly more advanced insofar as it is unembellished and uncorrupted. Isaac Newton, who believed Astrology, an ancient wisdom, had the intellect to investigate the Emerald Tablet and attempt to render its meaning. A cache of such renderings, including his, is not hard to find on the net. You may care to look into it if you are not out and out hypocrites, because I have certainly studied science (falsely so called, if astrology, for one, is not accepted without other justification than "We can't explain it."). But there is only one explanation for any miracle, and astrology, palmistry, reincarnation and fate are miracles, that cannot be explained except by assuming and intelligence greater than our own as responsible. THE HYPOTHESIS THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST CANNOT BE PROVEN. EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY IS EVERYWHERE. THAT EVIDENCE, THOUGH, IS ONLY APPARENT TO THOSE WHO TRY TO LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY (as ye would others do unto you, ...) AND SEEK THE TRUTH. Now, as Plato records, and many of Cayce's past life readings explain, the destruction of Atlantis was, in Cayce's words, because of the abuse of spiritual truths for the material gains of physical power, or as cloak behind which to carry on their activities. They oppressed the less fortunate, and it became the issue that caused the over-use of energy that shifted the poles. Aristotle, Plato's student, and Alexander's mentor, denied Plato's Atlantis existed. He was an imperialist and a slaver, so the story of Atlantis would not ring his bells. Its destruction, and the submergence of the ancient wisdoms, was fated as a direct consequence of the abuse of the knowledge we proved unworthy of. Necessarily, the world, for its fourth age, was thrown back to the stone age for all but a few hubs of civilisation like China, India, and Egypt, all of which were instrumental in the later ages for the upbringing of the Christ and His perfection (Cayce). This returned to Him the power to dematerialise as recorded in the Bible, and discussed at length. His link with Melchizedek (N.T. Melchisedec) is expounded in Hebrews KJV. But mankind had to be raised again from stone-age tribal conflict and ignorance to the intelligence we have at our command today. So the Bible reads like its written for a child in the beginning, advancing through the teachings of the prophets using examples of right and wrong as men evolved again, through to an example of Jesus living all that has been taught, and at the end, presenting in Revelation KJV the mysteries for the worthy who seek God, as Jesus has taught. "Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, and all these things [that the heathens seek] will be added unto you." But as he has shown by example, he also said "Unto him to whom much has been given, much is also required." Counter examples, of those who have tried to climb up some other way, litter the history books like their monuments litter our cities to inspire the next imperialist and his armies. Through ifor us."t all, developments toward God, and not the destructive forces unleashed to clear the way, remain to take us where we are today. Eventually, we must become none other than the more Christ-like (Cayce). Thus Jesus said, "The mind cannot conceive of outer darkness, nor of the glories that God has prepared for us." Obviously, this species of religion is not to be found in the appendix of Ellen White's brilliant history of the Church since about 1000 AD, downloadable as "The Great Controversy". The 15 Anathemas Against the Doctrines of Origen, Constantinople, 5th council, 553 AD have grossly simplified Christianity, for ease of transmission through the dark ages after the collapse of Rome. Also for the advantage to be gained because of that knowledge. (Cayce) Read carefully, then research my sources here cited, and I will have respect for your opinions. Presently, you know next to nothing of relevance to this discussion.

If any of you witnessed a miracle, like the hand that materialised in front of Belshazzar and wrote on the wall, your reactions would be the same as his. Your bowels would be loosed! If it requires the study of sources like Edgar Cayce and their works, you will remain safe. Trust your spin doctors and herders, boys, the time for anything more than the latter kind of miracle is past. See you on Polaris, because science has destroyed this world. The North Pole is gone. Ice scating in the Netherlands is abandoned as too dangerous since 1989. Religion gave you the peace you needed to create civilisation and science. Your use of it, and the arrogance you developed as a result, is at fault. Science without religion is blind. Religion without science is lame. (Albert Einstein).

After that rubbish, I will have one last word here. Most people believe or don't believe in God (by any other name) to some degree. Only those who are gifted with supernatural abilities, or those who seek and witness such events, or those with both sufficiently evolved intellect and appropriate research, will be able to determine that God is true. I reiterate thus, atheists have also a belief that there is no God exactly as the lukewarm believer in God has his belief. It is time to face facts, an get off your high horses. The disbelief in God is not the problem with atheism. It is simply that this belief leaves them open to believing ANYTHING, as they plainly do. After all, the weight of evidence concerning God and the supernatural events associated with such, is far greater than much of the evidence on which the sciences are based. This is more particularly the case when the attempt is made to unequivocally attribute only one hypothesis as mainstream, and regard alternatives as crackpot, to lend more credence to scientific validity thereby. We are not even considering the systematic influence of vested interests acting through the education system and the media (Ideas and Opinions - Albert Einstein).

There is a more detailed version of the creation in "The Divine Pymander of Hermes", Book 2. But again, the discourse uses alchemaic symbolism, which derives from the Hermetic perspective. Unless you can see yourself as being at Recall (Movie: Total Recall), or in "The Matrix", you can't relate to Hermetic Philosophy. We are born, bred and raised materialistic. With Religions disappearing, the opinion that atoms created DNA by chance on one planet in a system around one star of 200 thousand million in a galaxy which is one of more than that many within range of our telescopes, and evolved creative intellects again by chance, will eventually be accepted by all. That is a lot of turf for such an accident to occur in, and we may wonder how many more such intellects must be out there, without ever knowing any more about the matter. But the mind of a child has no problem with the concepts in the Bible, before it is taught to be materialistic. That the concepts of religion are of value, however, is apparent to those who follow the Darma (ethics) of a religion and discover pragmatically that much of cooperation relies on it, in the creation of fraternities and even civilisation itself. Ethics is the mortar that prevents discord, revolution and war. We now have, by Einstein, been given both the keys to understanding the power of God, and its opposite, the means of wiping mankind out of existence. The prophecy 2 Peter 3:5 KJV is both what will be and why. But this playing field is not level, without being permitted to cut and paste like everyone else, so I bid all adieu with a little consolation from Patience Worth, Pearl Lenore Curran's ghost writer (1883 - 1937) who produced the following across a OUIJA board. You may contemplate how a fraud came up with this before Einstein told Hubble that the universe was expanding, and the Atomic Bomb had not yet announced Einstein's genius to the world in 1945. But it didn't take an Atomic Bomb to announce Edwin Hubble, did it? His genius is prime time TV. "Steadfast I am not awed, the agony of the universe Doth not appal me, the sun may crumble, And sift through the star-mesh, onward In motes to the utmost of chaos. The moon may become mold, Stifled by the cold embrace of Eternity, And the stars burn, till they float like whits of ash. Earth may become an emblazoned sphere, staggering drunkenly amid the dead universes. None of these giveth rise to wonderment-- What of the torment of matter, if in The eons of decay and destruction-- His promise is fulfilled, and I be!" I guess God does need to keep the miracles coming. And I guess all things corporeal must have a beginning and an end, emerging from the light, and returning to it, from an indefinite beginning to an indeterminable end.