The Omen

Hi all, So this project was temporarily suspended since I last wrote on it. I have now returned to it with the resources to pull it off, bar one very important component....crude oil. I have been in dialogue with two of four refineries in Australia to access 30 litres and one refinery has declined the request based on 'duty of care'. I fear the others will also follow suit. Whilst it is unfair that they have a monopoly on the resource, I do understand why they are chicken s..ts, particularly in light of all the recurring spillages on their part. Several people have suggested a fake crude made up of what have you, but this is not really an option. I need the real thing, otherwise it is merely theatrics. So two years later, I ask, does anyone know where i can get crude from. Anyone know anyone who knows someone? Auctions on the net perhaps? cheers

Let me know if you're out there and whether I've come to the wrong place. Hope you can help.

Hey, So it'd make more sense to make the container out of aluminium sheet metal say, as opposed to wood, given the use of Liquid Nitrogen wouldn't it? Also, would I need to submerge the crude tray in the N2 or would it suffice to just let it sit on top of the N2? if N2 is liquid, isn't it absolutely necessary to cover the crude if it were to be submerged? won't it create a swirling mess of oil and N2 if it isn't? I know, I know...I should just do it and see it, just want to get it right to save on resources. Thanks a bunch.

The program is google sketch up (CAD for dummies). It's a fairly decent program, easy to use. This is really great feedback all! More questions? 1. What kind of time frame would I be looking at for the liquid nitrogen to freeze the crude? As mentioned the block of crude is roughly 800mm x 800mm x 75mm in depth. The crate will be roughly in the vicinity of 1200mm length x 1200mm width x 575mm height. That's about 200mm surrounding all sides of the crude, top + bottom + sides. (err...don't know how to calculate the mass or volume of the surrounding space any other way) http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/images/smilies/redface.gif 2. Do you think the crude in the aluminium tray would stick once frozen, making it difficult to remove the block out of the tray in one piece? 3. In terms of lining the crate with plastic, what material would work? 4. Is there any issue with the metal/ aluminium tray thrown into the equation? do you have any recommendations if so? 5. When you guys mention the boiling point of liquid nitrogen i assume you mean boiling cold, is this right? So, no qualms in it heating the crude up.... 6. Can the crude be completely sealed as shown above (perhaps with a different lid)? 7. If the crude isn't properly sealed with lid, will it end up containing any traces of liquid nitrogen within it, or on the face of it? Thanks again, The Omen

Thanks for the response guys. It's overwhelming. I'll tell you all about the reasoning for this, once I actually get the project underway. Till then, it's just a halfbaked idea. So, it seems the unanimous vote is liquid nitrogen. By the sounds of it, it's much cheaper and easier to use in this context. I received an MSDS (material safety data sheet) regards to Crude Oil, and it does emphasise the combustibility of Crude in contained environments. So some more questions: 1. would crude contained in this crate combust? 2. does the combo of liquid nitrogen and crude raise any issues for potential combustion? 3. in terms of checking whether the crude is frozen, is there any issue with opening and closing the container to check? does the nitrogen escape? will it blow up in my face? I think that's a silly question...but hey. 4. does the container need to be sealed or not? 5. how do i avoid the crude combusting? what would make it combust? Thanks again, The Omen

Liquid nitrogen has been recommended before. However, do you know if it could be used in a non-laboratory environment? I've never used it. i intuit it's in a high pressure tank and is sprayed into a confined space. If so, how would I use it in this context with the crate mentioned above? Can I buy liquid nitrogen? etc.

Hey All, Thanks for your help in the last thread. Here's a new one. Hope you have time and the curiosity to assist with this more detailed request. Basically, I have little to no scientific bent and need help. I am looking to freeze a rectangular block of crude oil (800mm x 800mm x 75mm in depth). So far, getting my hands on crude oil has been quite a task, requiring quite a lot more research than I had anticipated. It seems that prior to any of the oil refineries handing over any crude, I need quite a detailed manual on how I plan to use it. They have issues with regards to “duty of care”. The basic premise thus far, is to create a rectangular wooden crate, with an aluminium tray for the crude. I’ve attached an image on how I plan to freeze it. Have a look. I’ve been told that dry ice may be the go in getting the crude to freeze, however I’m uncertain of quite a few things. So my questions are: 1. Can dry ice do the job? 2. If so, will the whole container need to be completely filled with dry ice to adequately freeze it? 3. Will dry ice stick to the timber and acrylic glass/ aluminium tray if applied? 4. If so, is there some kind of protective agent/ lining I can use to stop it from sticking? 5. Is there any other feasible, affordable option for the freezing? Hope you can help. Thanks, The Omen

Thanks for the feedback all, Another question. Where in the world do I go to freeze oil at -50c? it's a small batch, roughly 15-20 litres. I haven't had a look yet, but I'm thinking that industrial refrigeration services may not drop to that level. What about uni science labs or governmental institutions with appropriate facilities? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. If its possible to do at home, even better. Thanks

that's great Cap. Would crude oil therefore be easier than engine oil to freeze? Will need to check what lows I can get on my freezer. May have to source out an industrial freezer. Not sure. Also, would the melting process be a lot more slower to thaw then say ice? thanks thanks inow

Hi all, Basic question. Is it possible to freeze crude oil or engine oil? If so, how? If not, why? Have had some engine oil in my domestic freezer for roughly 24 hours in a small container. Seems to be getting thicker, doesn't look like it will ever freeze though. Just an experiment for arts sake. Thanks,