sunshaker

Again I think this is down to scale, the universe seems inhomogeneous at smaller scale, And statistically homogeneous at scale larger than 250 million light years, But even this is being questioned now, Homogenity proplem I also believe "black holes/gamma ray bursts" play a large part in keeping dark energy/vaccum energy constant, by moving excess energies to different areas of universe so the universe expands has evenly as possible. It is why black hole expel energies as well as consuming. If our universe is a virtual particle in another universe it would be expanding into "space-time" that universes space-time, but just beyond scales we do not yet understand or be able to measure. As our universe would only last "18 orders of magnitude shorter than 10 microseconds"...in there universe. I am unsure about directly at our present time with our current technology, But maybe indirectly by those far cleverer than myself. Is there a center ? scientists are still unsure whether the universe is finite or infinite, what I think is our universe is finite within a infinite multi-verse, which is why we believe there is no "center" to the "universe/multi-verse".

Are these virtual particles but universes many orders of magnitude smaller than our own, To us blinking into existence in a time span to short for us to observe, But universes just like ours, with all the physics/science and life that exists within ours. Our own universe but a virtual particle in another universe many orders of magnitude larger than our own. Perhaps each universe expanding until meeting/touch another expanding universe that touch and then annihilate each other like particle pairs.

Are you dismissing the multiverse ? Perhaps where dark energy originates,

The biocentric universe, without life there is no energy. So life creates the universe, which in turn creates life? energy and time, are unknown, except by probabilities.

It is why i was wondering whether dna would change beyond recognition or still be able to be traced back to a common earth ancestor. Would there be something about earth that always remains some where in dna, but colonizing planets I do not think simulating gravity will always be practical, It will be a case of adapting to each planets gravity/radiation, I suppose at first(generation or two) it will be done with bio engineering, but then left to natural means. Which would mean stem cells changing/adapting to new environment in turn changing the human form.. Natural selection affects the genetic structure of a population indirectly via the contribution of phenotypes. Without phenotypic variation, there would be no evolution by natural selection. Wiki. which leads me to believe we can drastically speed up natural selection by sudden changes of environment. I am thinking many thousands of years, even with the "application of intelligence" evolution will still take over in the long term, Perhaps we are lost colonists (Mitochondrial Eve) from a race that done this millions of years ago, who wanted a simple way of life , and there are no missing links, just a missing craft that brought us here. And our dna adapted to earth to become what it is now. Them little grey aliens that some believe are visiting us, may be our distant ancestors keeping a eye on us .

I was reading how moving environments can effect genes/dna, Like this study done with bees. Half european honey bees, Half african killer bees They took about 250 of the youngest bees from each hive and placed them in the other hive, At the end of 6 weeks, the bees where collected and tested. These changes happened within 6 weeks, I wonder if this is because the stem cells are more active in the young. But if this can happen in bees in a few weeks, I wonder about the long term effects on humans when we leave earth. Can evolution work faster than we think given the right circumstances/environments?

After a previous thread got closed "Earth as a living organism", I thought I would look more into the beginning of life on earth. I see this "soup" proteins/rna/dna as earths stem cells, containing all the building blocks for life that was to come, But there is also the theory that life began near heated sea vents It seems to be at the moment take your pick which you prefer, Whichever one or neither still leaves us with life "evolved on earth", Can life adapt to new worlds?. What I was thinking if we do start colonizing other planets, And stem cells react differently to different gravities and environments from the word go, There will come a time when the human race will be as diverse as we already imagine aliens to be from us. I can imagine there will be many deformities in the beginning, But over generations the stem cells will adapt/evolve to their new environments/planets. So in billions of years from now the human race could populate the universe, Earth would be forgotten, And none of these races would ever know they where once human. I know we can trace back dna thousands perhaps millions of years if we had samples, But none of this dna has ever left earth, And been subjected to alien environments. After these changes/time scales could their Dna still point to a common ancestor ? Or be changed beyond recognition? Or would their dna evolve to match the life that may already be on these worlds?

I know its a couple of years old, but i have been looking to see if it as been updated anywhere. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120515203100.htm

I did not say I agreed with all. There is science going on now that is looking into whether or not earth is a living system, I am just open to ideas, Science as not yet proven this point.

I agree you do, more than most, I have seen you address posts where I would not even know where to start, Or if there was anywhere to start. And you have turned it into a readable thread.

Why bypass science? If the earth is a living organism, there is the science of how this all fits together, We are living organisms but we didn't bypass science and make up new definitions about ourselves , it just opens up new areas of science to explore and understand. Once we understand our "rock/earth" we will have a better chance of making other rocks/planets our home. I think this will give us more of an incentive to go to the stars, which i believe we should and will head sooner than you think. Whatever we find or discovery there will be always new science to understand, Even if we did find there was a "god", I would want to know the science behind god. Refusing to admit to which claims are "factually incorrect"? I am not agree with all of gaia theory, Even though Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Earth was one of my favourite sci/fi novels

I am sure most people do want validation for their ideas/theories when they come here, Perhaps may be the only idea they have ever had, So when their idea/theory is sometimes attacked without no instructive criticism given other than word salad, woo,woo, a defensive attitude is taken, Then they are unable to see the good advice given by some. It is because of the few who offer nothing but verbal assault to something they believe in whether it is right or wrong, this is when threads spiral out of control to attack/defense, Then it turns into a "crackpot" thread. Sometimes the ideas are not so wrong just the terminology that is misunderstood.

Without these "Events" the chances are we would not be here now, It is like art, shaping the world to fit to specific life forms, Sometimes you lose a battle to win a war. I do not understand all this negativity/hostility here to the idea of earth as a living organism, But then again I see most of the neg posts are from those that frequent the thread "crackpots in physics", Earth as a living organism is not a crackpot theory, It is a growing belief within the science community. Science Which some here look at the world with closed eyes & minds. Earth is a breathing living system, year’s worth of Earth’s seasonal transformations look like from outer space. Nelson – a data visualizer – stitched together from NASA’s website 12 cloud-free satellite photographs taken each month over the course of a year. Once the images were put together in a sequence, the mesmerizing animations showed what Nelson describes as “the annual pulse of vegetation and land ice” I prefer to be part of a united/connected/living world, If you choose to be a accident living on a rock that is your loss. I am only saying that parent, Seems to imply one step/generation, Where Alpha implies the beginning/first cause..

I understand where both sides are coming from, It is not about a grand design that will "automagically" sort itself out, To me it is all about caring for earth and when you care, you take responsibility. There is no magic quick fix. To think of Earth as only a rock saddens me, which I find unhealthy, Earth is more than a rock more than a home, Earth is the "womb" where life began, it is up to how you define that life. Unless you know without a doubt why and how life began on earth? There is nothing unhealthy about seeing earth as a living organism, Quite the opposite, It makes you realize how precious and connected the earth and life is, Which can only be a good thing. We seem to be stuck "defining" life to fit around our simple biological forms, Which we still do not understand yet, So I suppose earth as a living organism will not truly be answered until we have a better understanding of life. We also don't look much like those first rna enzymes. We evolved, changed many times before we reached what we are today, Perhaps parent is the wrong word, Maybe the "Alpha of life" with one purpose to start a chain of life.

Why cannot life be the "offspring" of earth? Why does offspring have to "resemble" the parent, We are like the seeds of earth who will one day travel to the stars and and carry earths/our/lifes dna to other worlds that we will terra form, Passing on earths dna, which as far as we know is unique to earth., As for "homeostasis" The earth balances multiple systems, Some we understand and others are still beyond our understanding, Ice ages have been mentioned but who is to say these are not an important part of this system, perhaps to lower the temperature so earth did not overheat or to allow different species to thrive while others die of, Some grand design we are yet to understand. We still do not completely understand how life began, Some prefer to think it was a random coming together of elements/rna etc, But perhaps it was not so random/by chance, but earths ways of reproducing. Along term plan, that would eventually spread her dna to new worlds. Battle of the planets, to spread their seeds to worlds yet claimed. We are "intelligent seeds" with a built in urge to expand our territory.

With more and more people taking an interest in science, And forums no longer being just for academics, Perhaps it may be time for a new sub forum, Somewhere between speculation/trash, (TESTING GROUND) Where new posters who are unsure where their post fits , or pet theories which may need a bit of work to move to speculation go, it could be a more relaxed forum where those more knowledgeable can "advice" what is needed for their theory/idea to be testable or what prove they should look for or advice on how to present an idea. Topics can then be moved to the right forum by mods, Or stay where they are until they are of a standard to be moved, This will also stop topics appearing in forums with 1 post from OP who never reposts again. Perhaps the rep system could also help to decide a topics worth for further debate in correct forum.

I suppose I may be what you have in your wisdoms defined as a "crackpot" But have steered clear participating in this thread, knowing that most of your minds are already made up and set in stone. I have been reading this thread and find many of the posts condescending, but I tend to put this down to youth, Or lack of social awareness, Perhaps some of us have not been in a position to further our education due to different circumstances, But even with my lack of higher education I believe I have manners, I do not put people down for their ideas or lack of understanding, in any walk of life not just these forums. Some may be like myself, who have no one in their social circles who have an interest in science, So they come to these forums not to overthrow physics/science, They are just trying to understand how their ideas fit in with known science, but many times within the opening first posts they are met with "word salad" "woo woo" "crank/crackpot" which instantly turns on a defensive mechanism and the thread gets derailed, When all they want is to understand, Has for the "bigger picture" this is what first gets them interested in science, Once in they start looking at specifics, Don,t shut the door on them before they start their journey of understanding. Some never come back or carry on their search. It seems "science" is fast becoming another one of those subjects you should not talk about in company along with religion and politics. edit; but this is still the best forum I know, and a lot of leeway is given. even though I can;t open another thread on my extended periodic table

I don't worry about these trillions of universes, From what I understand, you cannot split an atom or anything smaller using nail scissors . And food I eat goes no further than breaking down into atoms, At best you will move these trillions of tiny universes to a different location and they will be none the wiser..

I agree, but after a catastrophe, the changes will be multiplied over the first few generations. The dinosaurs where "stable" perhaps to stable which is why they died out/evolved to birds to make way for for a new dominate life form, One that was not so "stable" and was able to adapt at a faster rate, and discuss their ideas across the internet to increase their capabilities to evolve using science/tech. I also value life extremely high, I do not see us as parasites on a larger creature, or protected by a "god", I see us living within ourselves, every electron a universe which contains all, we are within everything and everything within us. So what each of us do effects the world we live in. Again down to scale, Yes the finger would eventually die/decay, But those "hypothetical beings/us" may in there time scales live for billions more of their years. I believe in science and most of it's processes, But i also believe what we see as reality is also within the quantum, I suppose I am a fractal -multiversal believer.

In my opinion it comes life down to size scales, Take any part of a human/life and you can break these down to atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons, quarks etc, none of these are classed as having life, but together they make up all life forms, If there was say civilizations living within one of these protons/quarks within us, they would scoff at the idea that all these atoms had life or where part of a life form. Life can only sometimes be seen by looking from the right perspective.

What is special about the current conditions is us/life now, We have grown and adapted to what the earth has given us, We go through stages, Early earth was right for early life, Earth now is right for us. Earth in the future will be right for what we/life becomes. Life is on a journey, With Earth leading the way.

To me, Life adapts to new challenges, The strong/those able to adapt survive, the weak and those that cannot adapt die, Human thrive on challenges and it is what allows us to grow as a species, A good catastrophe can bring out the best in us. Earth as a nursery for life seems to have all "it needs". Without going of topic to much, Yes i do believe "our universe" is part of a living system/entity.

Strange, on 18 Oct 2014 - 09:12 AM, said: Perhaps a "stable set of conditions" is not what Earth needs, If things don't change they stay the same, Which in my book would be bad for evolution. We have not ended up like venus, Earth as had a say in ice ages through volcanoes/greenhouse gasses, So perhaps these ice ages are a important part of a "planet organisms" life cycle, And these " external factors" are important built in factors,

Perhaps you are right, There may be entities that swim through space like fish through water, That school in space depositing sperm/eggs, That then fall on to planets once fertilized. We may be like caterpillers waiting to become butterflies, Planets may be nurseries while we grow, And our true home is space.

If I think of earth as a living organism, I would think of earth as an egg that as been fertilized, And other planets as sterile eggs, A egg only as a small window to be fertilized, then as to be in the right place for life to evolve, Once a sperm fertilizes an egg no other sperm can enter, Which is like the earth once it was fertilized and it was in the right place goldilocks zone/womb, life quickly took hold producing oxygen/atmosphere that was a protective barrier to the earth/egg", Perhaps why life only appeared once on earth, Because it protected itself with this barrier/atmosphere that sterilized any incoming sperm/bacteria. So earth was in the right place at the right time, But who's the daddy? And does he pay maintenance to mother?