nameta9

Everything you guys reply is correct. I am not denying our science, it is all correct. I am abstracting more. I am considering the system Mind + Reality (or universe). Mind has always been fixed. Our neural circuits, language, logic is fixed and with this fixed system we interact and discover reality and science. What happens if the Mind changes (different circuits). The system Mind + Universe changes. At that point it is hard to imagine the impossible, but a different Mind will see this same reality differently. And in this sense will create a different science or interpretation or maybe even live a different experience. We obviously cannot know because everything is filtered with our single mind, but a different mind can develop a different science altogether. And not a wrong science but different. Do they have atoms ? maybe not because maybe they associate a tree with a cloud as one thing that may have use and meaning in their view of the world. Being that there are trillions of different ways minds may be designed, there are trillions of different universes and sciences.

If you get out of our mind set and imagine to be within an alien mind set you would see things from their view which could be radically different and not incorrect be equally valid. I mean the alien mind could have a different organization such as memory and emotions and may not even use mathematics. Their mind is as valid as ours. Our mind is only one possible organzation and one possible science.

No because mind senses, structures and organizes information, uses language and logic to interact with reality uses memory to position its logical path. But a different mind, with different neural crcuits and connections and eventually memory structures and different organization will interact with reality in ways which we cannot know. I am thinking of an alien mind maybe. Of course their science or knowledge or better experience is valid for them but not for us. They have a different science in their mind.

A contradictory item (or concept, or object ) is the only one that exists in the universe because it can deceive all logic and reasoning and as such does not depend on any reasoning to exist. If contradictory item A is such that A=3 and also A=17, and A exists and A also does not exist, then A is the most sure thing to exist because it can always escape any logic regarding its existence. Its existence does not depend on any logic any rule or any constraint, not even the one of being true or false. It is hard to reason with this item because all reasoning breaks down, but this proves that it is the most sure thing possible, since nothing can contradict it, as it actually accepts and thrives on contradiction.

If all space is continually compressing (or expanding) in all directions by any rate even trillions of miles a second, then size and space is infinite in extent (small or big doesn't matter). Of course the continuous compression or expansion CANNOT be revealed because it is perfectly equivalent in all directions (this has nothing to do with the universe expanding-red shift thing). This is one of those concepts which could exist but we can never know. A possibility is that space is only 2 dimensional and the 3rd dimension is only things getting smaller or bigger in 2 dimensions giving us the sensation that they are in 3 (like video games).

The concept is not as abstract as it may seem. Science is developed in a loop of continuous interactions from Reality to the Sense organs(hand, eye) to the Mind and back again from Mind to Sense organ(hand) to Reality as this diagram Reality ®, Senses(S) and Mind(M) shows: R -> S -> M R <- S <- M Up until now M has always been fixed, but changing M everything changes. In this sense there would be a new and different science. We can imagine also wildly changing S by the way. An interesting thing is that we can imagine there being an intermediate "invisible" layer called a "Presentation" layer that presents the information from the previous layer in a completely different form and format: R -> S -> P -> M R <- S <- P <- M For example reality R could actually be a solid box of some unknow matter and we just poke at it with some sticks, but the presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this. We wouldn't notice because it is transparent but it could be there. Even more interesting is if this layer is at some other point of the diagram: R -> P -> S -> M R <- P <- S <- M In this case you could have for example that reality is a giant simulation in a computer of an unkown alien having completely different physics and the P layer hides this fact from us (we would be in a simulation aka Matrix..) or it could always be a box of some unknown matter and we just poke at it. The presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this. In the next diagram we could interpret it as saying everything is only in our mind (or we live in a dream) and there is no external reality at all there being a layer P that fools us: P -> S -> M P <- S <- M The point is that I can't imagine anyway of discovering this hidden layer! We have some concrete cases where there are almost invisible layers (but that can be discovered): 1) when we digest food it is almost invisible 2) Some of us can live comfortably in part because there is a layer of workers somewhere in the world who work almost for free (or in the past worked); we don't notice but we use their goods. We are "buffered" from Reality, so extrapolating this to the universe the question becomes interesting... Any comments ?

Science is a system of arbitrary symbols and interactions dependent on a mind interacting with the universe. Imagine a mind A, having a completely different cognitive organization (memory, emotions, sense organs, thought processes) etc. This mind would interact with reality according to a completely different set of rules from our science, but as such it would always be completely coherent and valid for mind A. Thus a completely different and new science would be valid for mind A. Therefore changining mind structures you can create an infinite number of different sciences. This came up when analyzing what would happen if we started to modify how our neurons are hard-wired and in general any degree of physical and direct modification of the brain - mind. This also comes up when considering an eventual alien species that is organized differently. In fact our mind H has a science in which to describe and explain being A, while mind A has his science in which to describe and explain being H. Which is the correct description ? Both because science becomes a system of arbitrary symbols and interactions dependent on the mind structure using the given science.

The concept is not as abstract as it may seem. Science is developed in a loop of continuous interactions from Reality to the Sense organs(hand, eye) to the Mind and back again from Mind to Sense organ(hand) to Reality as this diagram Reality ®, Senses(S) and Mind(M) shows: R -> S -> M R <- S <- M Up until now M has always been fixed, but changing M everything changes. In this sense there would be a new and different science. We can imagine also wildly changing S by the way. An interesting thing is that we can imagine there being an intermediate "invisible" layer called a "Presentation" layer that presents the information from the previous layer in a completely different form and format: R -> S -> P -> M R <- S <- P -> M For example reality R could actually be a solid box of some unknow matter and we just poke at it with some sticks, but the presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this. We wouldn't notice because it is transparent but it could be there. Even more interesting is if this layer is at some other point of the diagram: R -> P -> S -> M R <- P <- S -> M In this case you could have for example that reality is a giant simulation in a computer of an unkown alien having completely different physics and the P layer hides this fact from us (we would be in a simulation aka Matrix..) or it could always be a box of some unknown matter and we just poke at it. The presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this. In the next diagram we could interpret it as saying everything is only in our mind (or we live in a dream) and there is no external reality at all there being a layer P that fools us: P -> S -> M P <- S -> M The point is that I can't imagine anyway of discovering this hidden layer! We have some concrete cases where there are almost invisible layers (but that can be discovered): 1) when we digest food it is almost invisible 2) Some of us can live comfortably in part because there is a layer of workers somewhere in the world who work almost for free (or in the past worked); we don't notice but we use their goods We are "buffered" from Reality, so extrapolating this to the universe the question becomes interesting... Any comments ?

Or you could "convince" yourself that the fake memory is "true" if you could believe yourself enough. A corollary is that by erasing some knowledge you could literally create not only any "fake" memories but even any "fake" world view or fake science or fake reality. I could convince myself (or directly erase all the information that contradicts the regarding subject in my mind) that there are no atoms, only macroscopic objects and microscopes give "fake" information. One way to "erase" all the information in the mind would be by directly manipulating the neural circuitry (that is physically moving the neurons or cutting and adding connections) if we knew enough how to do it.

Is any memory real ? After experiencing something it becomes the past, afterwards the reality of that something that "happened" only remains in our memory of the "event" and some of the consequences. But could we invent fake memories and would they be just as real as real memories ? After all, they are non-tangible, only an image (sometimes dreamy) and only with some logical consequences which could be even due to other causes and not the events we "remember" and think have had consequences. If so, than we can "invent" any memory and assign it as "real" and it would be just as "real" as real memories.

In reference to the ape's 2 dimensional world: So if an object is far away it is because it is small and when it gets close it means it is increasing in size (or the observer is decreasing in size). So the third dimension doesn't exist but only a "simulation" of a third dimension which in reality is 2 dimensional space continuously stretching or compressing to simulate movement in the third dimension. Well in this theory space is definitely infinite because all 3 dimensional movements stretch or squeeze 2 dimensional space. Maybe you mean always stretching or always compressing. Interesting theory ....