Ophiolite

No apologies necessary. It motivated me to do a search that led to downloading 500 pages worth of fascinating papers on giant planet migration which I was still trying to digest at 3.00am this morning. I think this area of astronomical research is intrinsically more interesting than cosmology (where it seems you can postulate just about anything since it is so difficult to challenge) because we are on the verge of major breakthroughs in understanding of planetary formation mechanisms and the implications they have for the development of life. When Kepler gets working in 2012(?) it will be tremendously exciting.

Right. I see your point. I googled him, as I'm sure you did, and found over five hundred links. He does appear to have some rather fringe ideas. You say the University of Ottawa web site lists him as an Associate Professor. One of the links describes him as Emeritus Professor there. Quite a difference.

Drat, I was going to say that! Ah, but it is. Evolution can only be observed when there is a large, that is, visible change in the phenotype. That does not mean that changes are not occuring. And these changes have to occur between generations. You can't have a gene mutating by a quarter in each of four generations. It has either mutated or it has not. And coal miners.

Good questions. (I always say that when I am not sure of the answer, since it often distracts the questioner long enough for me to slip past in my cloak of ignorance.) I believe there are two factors at work for Jovian planets: a) Gravitational interactions b) Frictional effects We are accustomed to think of solar systems as nice orderly arrangements of planets, orbiting for billions of years like clockwork. This was decidedly notthe case when the systems form from a protoplanetary disc. This is a time of violence and upheaval on a scale we can describe, but cannot truly imagine. In this setting interactions between giant planets may cast some of them out of the system entirely, while the others, having lost angular momentum in the exchange, must necessarily move inwards. This has been extensively modelled, and matches quite well the observed positions of many of the extra-solar planets observed to date. Also, at the time of planet formation, the plane of rotation of the system is crowded with gas, dust, particles, meteors, asteroids, comets, planetismals. The collisions between these tend to convert momentum into heat, with a result that the planets are slowed by a tiny amount, which over time can become a large amount. Now, I'll go away and research the correct answer. [On the topic of rocky planets, I don't think we know for sure. I think the theoretical answer is yes, but perhaps not as much as the giants, but until this one, we haven't really observed any extra-solar rocky planets in order to form an opinion.] Edit: "The accreted matter has less orbital angular momentum than the planet and exerts an effective inward torque, so that inward migration is slightly accelerated. " from http://www.phys.lsu.edu/~andy/reprints/planet2.html

calbiterol, it hardly seems necessary to qualify the location of the molecular hydrogen, since it is implicit in the title "...and dark matter". Jacques, I like dark matter, but only because it is different. I like different. It would be more appropriate, however, if using Occam's rasor we could cut away the invisible load of dark matter. It will be interesting to see if further observations confirm the presence of molecular hydrogen in other galaxies in appropriate quantities. It is clear that too many researchers have invested a substantial part of their career in devloping dark matter theories to toss them aside at the first sighting of an inconvenient fact. I am unclear as to why you ask, "who is Paul Marmet?", since the following brief biography is included in the link you gave. "Dr. Paul Marmet recently retired from the Physics Faculty at the University of Ottawa. He was formerly a senior researcher at the Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics of the National Research Council of Canada, in Ottawa, and from 1967 to 1982, he was director of the laboratory for Atomic and Molecular Physics at Laval University in Quebec. A past president of the Canadian Association of Physicists, Marmet also served as a member of the executive committee for the Atomic Energy Commission of Canada from 1979 to 1984. "

Bettina, Cathy Pa. You did not sit on the jury. You did not hear the evidence, you did not hear the rebuttals, you did not hear the redirects. You did not see the witnessess. You did not have an opportunity to assess their demeanour. You did not take detailed notes during the trial. You did not spend eight days reviewing the evidence and the credibility of the witnessess and the quality of the evidence with a group of other individuals who had gone through the same experience. What you have done is taken a justifiable disgust for child abuse, combined it with a questionable dislike for bizarre character traits, and unreasonably joined a witch hunt. Bettina, you have spoken eloquently on other threads of the curse of your empathic abilities. I'm just wondering where is your empathy for an innocent (in both senses of the word) forty four year old boy, who is found guilty by rumour, gossip and presumption within one of the courts of public opinion.

From your extract, quote (my emphasis) "Joseph Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made the prediction..." Do I need to spell it out? Really? The similarities (and distinctions) seem no more apparent today than they were in the months leading up to the invasion, sorry, liberation. But you have so many more forces available with a draft. And besides that gives you an opportunity to 'bow to the will of the majority' and 'withdraw with honour'. Your imagination has not failed you. Vegetarians and those whose surnames are plant like will be required to turn up occasionally at National Guard barbecues.

No. It does not happen around the world. I have encountered an unpleasant smell after rain - primarily in equatorial regions (Nigeria, Gabon, Malaysia, Indonesia); I have encountered a freshness in the air, which seems to me to be the absence of odours, in temperate zones (Europe) and desert regions (North Africa); I have not encountered a specific fresh smell emanating from the soil itself. That is why I have asked you the circumstances in which you have observed this. You appear to be generalising from personal experience. I am trying to clarify the evidence.

Good information Spyman. I allowed myself to be misled by J'Dona's comment "a star like the sun". While it is true Gliese 876 is main sequence star, it is an M4, as opposed to the sun, which is a G2. So Gliese 876 is 30% of the mass of the sun, has a lower surface temperature (3300K, versus 5200K), but most significantly has a luminosity less than 1% or 2% of the sun. So, although the planet is in such a close orbit it is indeed entirely possible that it could have retained an atmosphere.

Have you experienced this smell everywhere you have been in a non-urban setting when it has rained? What is the soil type, climate and underlying rock in your home area?

My understanding is that a hypothesis must be based upon some kind of evidence. Not so for conjectures' date=' but you have identified these ideas, at least partially as hypotheses. (And I [b']am[/b] 100% with you when it comes to correct spelling and grammar.) IF you saw it playing Brahms Piano Sonata no 3, you wouldn't say that. It does not need to be substantiated, but it needs to be based upon some evidence, or to be falsifiable in some way. Perhaps either or both of these possibilities apply: if so, please provide the data, or outline a test; otherwise, I maintain it belongs in pseudoscience.I can't move it. I am a visitor here just like you, and like you just expressing an opinion. I thoroughly agree with you on the speculative nature of much of cosmology. Much of this speculation is, in my opinion, at best philosophy (which is not to denigrate philosophy) and at worst pseudo-science: it is not, however, science. But even that is, generally, based upon a mountain of evidence - it's just that the authors of the conjectures have strayed very far out on the plains, so that the mountain is now a purple haze on the horizon. In different words, you appear to have plucked your conjectures out of thin air: I doubt this is true. Therefore, what led you to these speculations? That is the root evidence I am asling you to present, even if only in summary form. Without that there really is nothing, for me at least, to grapple with.

An individual with a child like mind may be expected to behave in a child like way. I believe that's what we have here. The jury apparently reached the same conclusion. They based that conclusion upon careful consideration of a pile of evidence that we have been exposed to only selectively, largely via sensationalist media. I think justice was probably served.

This mass is in the range we would expect for the rocky core of a Jovian planet. Given the known predeliction for gas giants to migrate inwards, I suspect this is one that has done so, then lost its atmosphere through the joint effects of high temperature and stellar wind.

Consciousness without a brain? Admin, shouldn't this be in the politics section?

Either way, the difference between 1 x 10 raised to a large number or 2 x 10 raised to a large number is trivial.

I'm with [Tycho?] on this one. Without a smattering of evidence this is equivalent to saying "I have a large beige armadillo-sequoia cross breed at the bottom of my garden, which has intense interest in piano sonatas and 12th century embroidery." Without the evidence this needs to be moved to pseudo-science. We await with interest.

Tom, you may have a browser problem, or incompatibility: I had no problem seeing them.

Rain will also remove particulates from the air so the pleasant smell may be more a case of the absence of unpleasant smells.

Yes, I appreciate that, but there are already a number of threads addressing this issue. Dominating a thread with a summary of a single article (out of tens of thousands) that address the issue, then simply declaring "Let us act quickly", hardly provides inspiring material for debate. I am confident that PlaneteBleue has considerably more interesting things to say on the issue than 'let us act quickly'. If he doesn't, then the evangelical tone is decidedly out of place. If he does, then I hope he will say them, so we may have something to engage with.

The formula gives the totalnumber of connections between particles. So it considers both the connection from a to b, and from b to a. But that can reasonably be taken as the same connection. So, to get the total number of connections we must divide the result by two. Does that make sense?

I'm taking that as an invitation.

I think this is in response my questioning of whether or not the species was conscious? We still do not know exactly what consciousness is. It may be related to intelligence, but it could be something entirely different. I believe it is a significant and unwarranted assumption that an intelligent species, with interstellar capability is necessarily conscious. Rule 87 in Ophiolite's Lexicon of Life: never cut an MBA any slack (especially if they are from Harvard)

It is generally thought that a science forum is place for exchanging views rather than expounding an agenda. You appear to be following the latter. As this is your first post on the forum I am even doubtful that you will hang around for a discussion. Can you disabuse me of these negative perceptions?

Yes Relative to the Earth it travels the following distance: In one lunar month it moves Orbital diameter x pi = 440,000 miles x 3.14= 1,382,000 In one year there are 12.38 lunar months. So distance travelled in one year = 1,382,000 x 12.38 = 17,104,000 Relative to the sun it is also moving, on average, an additional distance equivalent to the earth's orbit. This is 3.14 * 186,000,000 = 584,040,000 So, the total distance travelled, relative to the sun, is 600,000,000 miles

Well, it could be evidence in favour of Steady State and against the Big Bang. That would completely remove any problem with the low metallicity.