Ophiolite

What I find interesting in this is that two very intelligent, well educated, scientists should have developed such bizarre theories. Yet, to them, they were well founded, in that they addressed anomalies in observations and were not prohibited by known science. I can just hear the conversations in the equivalent of this forum one hundred and fifty years from now: "And their top scientists actually believed that the fundamental particles were these tiny strings, and that the Universe started with a Big Bang. And they had dismissed Lamarck totally. Don't even mention variable c. It's remarkable they made any progress at all."

Siientx, this could have been a useful contribution to gravitational theory at the time of the early Greeks. Today, I have to go with SubJunk and applaud you for thinking out side the box, and to echo his thoughts, that before you think outside the box it is best to know the exact dimensions, temperature, orientation, velocity, composition and history of the box!

Siientx, this could have been a useful contribution to gravitational theory at the time of the early Greeks. Today, I have to go with SubJunk and applaud you for thinking out side the box, and to echo his thoughts, that before you think outside the box it is best to know the exact dimensions, temperature, orientation, velocity, composition and history of the box!

Ted, ATinyMonkey has captured a lot of my thinking in his post. I am a Brit and I worked as an expat in various locations around the world for fifteen years, including almost three years in the US, all of this for a US company. At that time, the seventies and eighties, the promotions went preferentially to the Americans, even though there were many talented 'other nationalities'. Socially, the single guys mixed, but the married couples tended to retreat into the familiar territory of their own culture. When I lived in the States the majority of our friends were fellow Brits. Why? It is easier to establish a friendship with someone who has similar cultural values. Recall Churchill's comment about the Americans and the British: 'two peoples separated by a common language.' More recently, working in the UK, but again for an American company I listened to two American colleagues discussing a third, British, colleague. They had temprarily forgotten I was also British and launched into a damning attack on the laziness of Brits, their lack of a work ethic, their desire to be looked after in every tiny way. At the end of the tirade I gently asked them if they thought all British were like that. They sheepishly realised what they had just done. I've endured/ignored/been amused by this kind of attitude for three decades. Drop someone into a setting where they feel there is some form of rampant xenophobia all around them and they will, in the best Western traditions, circle their wagons. Exactly the same potentially occurs when Americans live as expats in the UK. Or any two diverse nationalities anywhere.

Ted, ATinyMonkey has captured a lot of my thinking in his post. I am a Brit and I worked as an expat in various locations around the world for fifteen years, including almost three years in the US, all of this for a US company. At that time, the seventies and eighties, the promotions went preferentially to the Americans, even though there were many talented 'other nationalities'. Socially, the single guys mixed, but the married couples tended to retreat into the familiar territory of their own culture. When I lived in the States the majority of our friends were fellow Brits. Why? It is easier to establish a friendship with someone who has similar cultural values. Recall Churchill's comment about the Americans and the British: 'two peoples separated by a common language.' More recently, working in the UK, but again for an American company I listened to two American colleagues discussing a third, British, colleague. They had temprarily forgotten I was also British and launched into a damning attack on the laziness of Brits, their lack of a work ethic, their desire to be looked after in every tiny way. At the end of the tirade I gently asked them if they thought all British were like that. They sheepishly realised what they had just done. I've endured/ignored/been amused by this kind of attitude for three decades. Drop someone into a setting where they feel there is some form of rampant xenophobia all around them and they will, in the best Western traditions, circle their wagons. Exactly the same potentially occurs when Americans live as expats in the UK. Or any two diverse nationalities anywhere.

Locating an alien civilsation would directly satisfy one of my wants/hopes, which is to know more about the Universe, specifically whether we are alone or one of dozens/hundreds/millions of other civilisations. This desire arises from the innate curiosity of humankind. Who said we are waiting? Many people around the planet are striving to improve conditions here and now and to advance man, not just materially, but spirtually and culturally. What makes you think it has to be an either or situation. Please answer this Dov, as I find your position on this perplexing. If it is applied with a mix of intellect and compassion then it will do much good. Do you think science is bad? You imply as much.

Locating an alien civilsation would directly satisfy one of my wants/hopes, which is to know more about the Universe, specifically whether we are alone or one of dozens/hundreds/millions of other civilisations. This desire arises from the innate curiosity of humankind. Who said we are waiting? Many people around the planet are striving to improve conditions here and now and to advance man, not just materially, but spirtually and culturally. What makes you think it has to be an either or situation. Please answer this Dov, as I find your position on this perplexing. If it is applied with a mix of intellect and compassion then it will do much good. Do you think science is bad? You imply as much.

A very proper scientific position, but not nearly as much fun.

I maintain my vote for life already having been found on Mars by the Viking landers, as per my Post #4, (http://www.biospherics.com/mars/)and offer the following by way of circumstantial, corroborating evidence. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996669

A very interesting thought. Might it be that it has already occured in one or more species that have not yet been studied in detail? How easy might this be to overlook if you were researching some other aspect of the plant?

Two weeks ago I would have agreed with you, then I started thinking. There are two ways in which your argument is flawed. 1. The majority of the world population does not have the benefit of anything other than the most basic medical technology. (Just check how many thousands of children are dying each week from dysentry.) 2. We are still working with instincts honed in tribes of between thirty and one hundred people. The application of some of those instincts today is largely responsible for wars and racism. So, there are two major areas in which selection pressures are still in place. (I do agree that in the west our evolution is apparently regressive, but perhaps that is just nature's way of increasing gene diversity!)

Large bang. Lots of energy. Conservation saved.

Statistical perversity. PS: If anyone likes to take a bet, the two words are either 'Trust God' or 'Love Jesus'.

Meteoroids will burn up. Asteroids are far too large. I suspect a lot depends upon the velocity and angle of attack. Generally the velocity will be sufficiently high so that the entire atmosphere can be penetrated in a few seconds. The compression (and heating through compression) of the air in front of the asteroid is substantial. That can be sufficient to induce stresses in the smaller bodies (metres to tens of metres) that cause them to fracture. Those on more gentle trajectories may cause less compression, but are subject to those stresses for a longer time.

Do we have an obituaries section?

If I understand you correctly, you are asking us to consider two possibilities: a multi-verse created by an active God, who also created Adam and Eve; a multi-verse arising n some other way. In each case, what are the possibilities of there humans arising in another Universe or elsewhere in this Universe? If you believe in Adam and Eve, i.e. in a literal meaning of the Old Testament, then it seems to me that you would have to consider them to be unique. (Perhaps one of our bible literalists who entertain us with their thoughts on evolution could make a useful comment here.) If I understand the concepts of multiple universes correctly (and I probably don't) they would each possess slightly different characteristics (Strengths of forces, fundamental constants) and so would evolve in different ways. The majority of them would not have conditions that would favour the evolution of life. Consequently, although there would still be a vast number of universes hospitable to life, we then have to set against that the bizarre, chaotic series of chance events that led to the evolution of humanity. The odds would very much be against the same chance events occuring again.

Calm again, thanks Aardvark. My primary computer is now up again, with working keyboard and all files recovered, so I am now less likely to lash out in an unrestrained fashion.Placing humanity at the top of any particular pyramid is not something I would typically do, though I reserve the possibility that we may actually be the only intelligent life in an otherwise barren universe. There just ain't enough data yet, to decide either way.

..unless acted upon by an external force. The act of throwing the ball backwards is the external force. YT's explanation applies.

Seconded.

Off-topic. Thanks Mossoi for the interesting link in your signature. Everyone should take a quick look.

Jesus, Aardvark. Get a ****ing grip. I'm trying to argue within the mindset and paradigms of Willowtree. We could have a great time poking fun at single sentences taken out of context from each other's posts. That, however would be counter productive and definitely off-topic. OK! Edit: Aardvark, I'm either pissed off with you for being so obtuse in deliberately mis-readinng the intent of my post, or with myself for failing to express myself clearly. Let me know which one it is.

Pangloss, what would your attitude be to plans by the EU to 'take out' the US GPS satellites to prevent them aiding hostile forces in some future conflict? On the spectrum ranging from 'I wouldn't mind at all' to 'that is an act of war'. Since the US military plan exactly this action against the European GPS I wondered if you had an equal opportunity approach for the Europeans.

100% agreement. I don't like sloppy posts and I rarely copy from an original in word just to capture a few typographical errors. (Like most of you I also rarely make spelling mistakes. Just loads of typos!)

Sorry for delay - hard drive crash. I've lost all my links, but try this:http://www.spacedaily.com/news/lunar-01d.html If I can find the rest of them on archive discs I'll post later or pm.