npts2020

Well, I believe in Thor. Do I believe Thor can cleave rifts into hills with his hammer, drink half the ocean in a couple of draughts, cause lightning bolts ...... etc.? No, but they do make for great stories. It's kind of like asking if I believe in monarchy. Of course I do, but I am not for promoting such a system of belief.

Heck, I wonder about that right now. I can't think of a single song up for a grammy that I can remember even having heard, that is how much I pay attention to it.

heh-heh. Thats what I get for not being specific. The questions were about the means not the goal. The question should have been; Is there no alternative method that might be cheaper and more effective?

Sure doesn't laissez faire imply no control other than the "market".

Well, if you believe in anything greater than yourself you believe in my god. (surely you can think of something greater than just yourself....you and your best friend maybe)

Yeah, but it seems as if for some people there is no harm unless someone immediately dies.

There have been some great points made in this discussion, definitely a lot to think about. IMO the biggest problem with the stimulus package is that we are trying to solve long-term problems with short-term solutions. Propping things up the way they currently are is a short term solution (its effectiveness can be argued) that does little to address the reasons we got into this mess to begin with (fiat currency, over-inflated derivative market based on an over-inflated housing market, large fluctuations in enegy prices, Ponzi scams both institutional and individual, etc.). The so-called "leaders" in America are telling the people that it is a bad time for everyone that is going to require major sacrifices from us all (globalization, national debt, environmental degradation, etc.) yet make no sacrifices of their own. In the midst of the "worst economic crisis" since the Great Depression (maybe ever) the most expensive campaigns ever conducted for public office unfolded in front of everyone. Do these people then get together and attempt to explain why things have happened the way they did (hint it is to their advantage if nobody can figure out what is going on)? Do they make some symbolic sacrifice of their own, like cut their salaries by $1 or require all congressmen to get their own health care? No, They propose spending more of our money than has ever been spent (IMO people are being naive to believe that it will not cost more than advertized). This has been bi-partisan (even if house republicans would have you believe differently) both before and after the most recent election, which is still going on, costing us even more $$.... Anyway, the point is that it is only businessmen for the most part who are able to accumulate the resources to run for large scale public offices (national, statewide, some large citywide offices), which automatically puts an extreme bias toward business oriented solutions (not arguing for or against) or at least ought to be expected. The problem is that many of the business oriented solutions are detrimental to society and/or individuals i.e. current and previous bailouts, carbon emissions, tax breaks to corporations over individuals, etc. Personally I would like to see the government completely take over any failing "business-too-big-to-fail" and do one of several things; A)sell its assets outright, B)operate it into an orderly bankruptcy and sell-off, C)take over and operate the business outright if it is so vital to have it until it is no longer needed, D)some combination of the above. Yes, this will require government to be responsible and will be more trouble than simply printing more money and "loaning" (wink wink) it to those who couldn't manage the money to begin with but I believe it would send a clear message that in a capitalist country, capitalists are expected to support themselves.

I believe in defining god as being anything greater than myself (that would make me an athiest or heretic in many if not most widely practiced religions).

Is it necessary? How much will it cost?

Vesna; I am not a computer programmer but AFAIK any currently available computer and its' associated programming is done with binary code. Does this not require a yes/no answer for every operation of it? By assigning evolutionary potential as a probability, you only defer the problem to defining what equals zero probability, which i believe is where things get confused. Equating the action of a steel spring with that of a cat/human/even AI, is ok from a modelling point of view but completely obviates any need for discussion of what is "life" since even elementary particles or deceased humans could be "life". (I only moonlight as a Sith Lord when my buddy Dick C. is on vacation)

Sorry, wondered why anyone would have much trouble in finding them. I either didn't reread or forgot what the previous posts were:doh:

I have written some about this very subject in relation to bringing our transportation system and communication and power grids into the 21st century by integrating them and automating the road/rail system and powering them with wind and solar energy. I could write all day about this but will try to put a few ideas forth while being brief. Firstly I would like to state for the record that I am less concerned about the actual size of government than I am with its ability to do the things the citizens living under it expect. Secondly, I believe the federal government is the only entity that has a reasonable chance of success at being able to accomplish a project of this scale. Thirdly, creation/conversion (DoT?) of some overseer entity will be required for design, construction, maintanence, and operation of the system and it may be desirable to use novel methods of organizational structure. As anyone who even cursorily views a proposal to bring about wide-scale change in the way land transportation occurs knows, the costs of even small changes is staggering and difficult to estimate with any precision. The best guestimates I have been able to put on a system that covers approximately half of todays public roadways run between $12-50 Trillion, with high end being more likely for anything substantially better than what exists now. Even at the high end, however, I believe the system would be more than cost effective (we spend $1.5-2 trillion every year just for fuel). I see no reason that roadway integrated with utilities cannot be prefabricated and laid more quickly and cheaply than paving takes place today. The bonus is that we eliminate most of the 40% of the petroleum use of our nation that is consumed by transportation and save 40,000 lives a year. An automated personal transit system has recently become technologically feasible on a large scale and for the first time able to be substantially better than the system that currently exists. Trouble is it will do little in the short term.

What I have not heard from anyone supposedly knowledgable about the economy, is how putting money into sectors of the economy that are losing money hand over fist will keep the economy afloat beyond the time money is being poured into it.

I wonder if he was chugging from a whiskey bottle if anybody would have even noticed?

I did not say my definitions were from any dictionary, I said they were the ones I would work with until someone made a better one. Maybe in the definition of evolutionary potential I should have said and/or but I stand by the definition as being essentially correct. I might not expect any AI to reproduce any more than I would expect my 90 year-old grandmother to reproduce but I would expect either to be able to assimilate information and use it to improve their capabilities. If you wish to say that DNA or whatever is required to have life, go ahead and state that and we will change the definition for purposes of this discussion. Not every organism (or system) that can evolve will evolve, certain conditions must be met. What I am saying is that some things (a steel spring, for example) will never evolve regardless of the conditions it could feasibly be placed under. I suppose one could say there is no such thing as "life" per se, only a continuum of existence of matter but I fail to see how such a definition is useful for trying to distinguish if something is alive or not as everything would either be or not be life, no discussion required.

DrDNA; I am not sure about on-line but if you have a local food co-op, health food store, Whole Foods, Foods of All Nations, or similar alternative food store will usually have them both or at least be able to get them.

That is far more common than most people imagine. In general, most radiation workers get lower overall doses than your average well-tanned beach bum.

Cheer up though, there are cosmologists that propose that what you describe actually does happen. Try googling "cosmology/cosmic bounce" (if you just do cosmic bounce you get a ton of video game and band references), there are many good hits there for better information.

As stated by several people, the moon will definitely move. Whether you could, in practice, apply enough force to make it noticeable is a different question........

I like my tandem bike better. There is nothing easier than letting someone else do all the work.

I tend to agree with ParanoiA that those who are responsible for making the law should not be above it. Trouble is that "the land of the free" has been accumulating laws at a far more prodigious rate than it has been repealing them for the past couple of centuries and few people (if any) can even keep up. At any given time there are hundreds of laws being suggested and very few repeals of laws ever even being considered. Maybe every law should have an expiration date?

Glider; I agree pretty much with what you said. It all comes down to whose description of reality is considered the most "objective".

I liked Michael Phelps before the olympics and even more now. I wonder if there could be a jury in South Carolina that would unanimously find him guilty of a crime? IMO he is being pilloried for something that the vast majority of people in America has done at one time or another in their life. I wonder how many of those offended by his behavior have ever won anything, let alone eight gold medals at the olympics.

Well, if the spring happens to be a strand of DNA or RNA I would agree that it has evolutionary potential. The typical spring (a mechanical one anyway) does not. Evolutionary potential has to do with offspring being different from the parent and the ability of an organism to adapt to its surroundings. IMO you could wait forever and the spring would never change other than degrading over time from use, corrosion etc.

Sisyphus; Wouldn't it be more efficient to use the electricity needed to separate water to just power the car to begin with? If you are going to use hydrogen, there is no way currently of producing enough with any device approaching the size of a car that would provide enough to power the vehicle for more than a very short time, hence the talk about infrastructure.