SomethingToPonder

Do you think it could be because the rats have such a limited lifestyle because they are research animals? To elaborate i mean as you said " namely running through a maze (what else)." It's the usual technique. So would the rats not be of course inclined to dream about a big event in their life such as finally getting taken from their cage or wherever they are kept and put into a maze with lots of people which are huge to them watching. It seems plausible to me that hat could be how they achieved this. It may however be the beggining of a series of studies that could may well go somewhere towards dream engineering. I think we are a long way off yet though. If they were really creating telepathic communications, The government and intelligence agencies would be experimenting on humans.

Im sure most of you heard about some of this research some time ago, But i have been looking into it on a more scientific level , And The whole process seems fairly do-able. I think it would take quite some time though to get to the right ancient genes. I for one would love to see it happen, But What consequences do you think it could hold bringing extinct species back to life? Maybe there was a reason reptiles declined from the top of the chain.could there be potential ramifications as humans in the long term, Maybe we would be allowing them a second shot, at life, and therefore allowing them to evolve into creatures with characteristics to survive from predators, (us) But because of our technological advances they would have some pretty nice adaptions. In my opinion no other species apart from the dinosaurs has adapted to survive as often as they did, with all the horns spikes teeth and size changes being very frequent.. I am talking a few thousand years down the line from now though, But it could bing about some major problems for future humans, You never know., Insects that come with them, new diseases etc. I welcome any philosophical points. heres a few links to some articles. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1026340/Jurassic-Park-comes-true-How-scientists-bringing-dinosaurs-life-help-humble-chicken.html http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread687251/pg1 It will be interesting to see what everybody thinks. seems to be a debatable topic which i am sure many people will have different views on.

I understand what the Op is trying to get across. It is a funny idea, Because it might not be as true now but with all the culture and stories that has seeped into our culture over the years, Maybe in a hundred years or so there would be a much similar comparison, sort of like, How religion is looked at now compared to in the dark ages. No doubt science is probably becoming the most credible and explainable reason for things now. Im sure there have been many doing so for thousands of years and at the time they were the minority. I hope we start funding science more and investing in our futures.

hey Offworlder i'd agree, I worded the "evolution" part wrong, You have to walk before you can run, hence largely simplified we need to learn things to learn other things. However while relating to evolution i have no doubt that we are not at the end of the scale yet, the finished product if you will Yes we could use either a more developed sort of ISS or planet as a launch pad, or a "checkpoint" in space, Harvest materials from a certain planet and use them to build on that planet saving the need to transport as much material. "This is one of the many reasons we need to keep funding science." - Agreed. Governments all around the world seem to be losing interest in science now and while there are still projects being funded, There is no real drive to get students interested at a young age and publicity is terrible. You try getting a chemistry set that you cant eat everything in, It is a joke now. Because they are meant for kids, Nothing toxic is allowed, and what is allowed is minimal and very restricted. I mean people used to know not to eat stuff in a chemistry set, if they didn't, They probably shouldn't have been using one in the first place. It was a tool for people with an interest in science that kids and adults alike would gather round for hours and hours playing with, And i believe still could. There are accidents everywhere involving a million things,Just because tommy down the block blew his shed up and his left hand, Kids who are responsible cant get their hands on anything decent. It really is a shame. Sorry bit of a rant there about chemistry sets, But i believe they went so wrong there it's unthinkable. everything's so... restricted.

My point is that cavemen technically had all the same resources to make everything we have now, they just weren't evolved enough to do it. How many more types of materials or minerals that can be used to make new types of metals or different things along those lines could there be left to be discovered ? In my opinion the possibilities could be endless. every single material you see around you has been created from things that were found on this earth, and with various different things mixed or altered with heat or with other chemicals we get different materials with which we can create more. It is incredible when you think about it, Imagine if we ever made it to another planet and started producing resources from there as well, wont be long before we are, It may be the start of many new things. anyone care to weigh in?

If there is no free will, Then it does not matter if you blame others or not , why would you blame others? Is it other people fault in some way that there is no free will? There are so many possibilities of how this could be a yes or a no either way, so i suppose you definitely posted it in the right place. if there is no free will and we as a humans are all acting on some agenda that cannot be altered and all our choices end up in the inevitable or are planned then our whole understanding of science would be planned as well, but my question would be, How is this occurring is there some sort of entity that created the plan? Or on a more imaginable scale, Imagine that we are a type of molecule, the equivalent of if you look at things magnified and you can see the bacteria. our whole universe and everything further is something on an animal or a surface of something in a much bigger universe. I might not be explaining this very well and i apologize,but i cant think of a way to put it. our world could be a molecule in a collection of other forms of bacteria and molecules which would be other planets stars gasses etc, and we are something tiny sitting somewhere on the equivalent of a different universe. we could be on a floor somewhere in an alternate universe and if say somebody dropped something on that part of the floor our universe could collapse as we are merely the particles or smallest bacteria. hard to explain, if anybody could elaborate if try to help explain more, maybe somebody else putting it a different way would make me see it differently.

Well said. The way he floats from subject to subject just enjoying learning whatever takes his fancy i like, You'l notice everything always has to be the "right way " as well, (which in his mind was his way) and he always studied things the hardest way, the most authentic or original way. he never took any shortcuts with science that's for sure. there is no doubt at all that he was jmuch more fascinating than most people and his brain was definitely wired in a different way than most. Now this is pure speculation on my part, But i would be willing to put money on that he had some sort of autism, Most probably asbergers , Many people look at this as a bad thing, I look at it as a gift, I have fairly mild aspergers which is on the autism spectrum, and find that i enjoy the way i see everything differently from everyone else. Too true.

Im glad you enjoyed it. I thought it was very intriguing .

Yes i agree, well put.

in my opinion , if god helps these people have better lives then great, "in a way" he is real. But i think that he was invented to be honest to answer the questions that couldn't and still cant be answered. Saying because god created it has become the one thing that people always choose to explain things that science cant yet explain, It will no doubt it will but not yet. religious protesters and people who are militantly religious frequently call on scientists to mathematically or scientifically prove things such as the big bang and evolution etc. But yet they cannot explain anything about creation etc apart from "god made it" well if that was the answer "to it all" it seems a bit simple doesn't it.

No there are some religious followers who respect others beliefs and dont criticize other's for their's. The people who use religion to better their own lives because it helps them in someway, And dont try and force others to believe what they believe. those people are what religion was made for, because it helps them keep on a certain path. One they choose. Dosen't harm anyone but helps them.

Impressive, Well done.

True, Proffesor feynman did a lot of work in this field and im currently reading his lectures, I was lucky enough to get lent the books from someone. It is very interesting.

There are parts of Einstein's theory of relativity that have been dis proven. And aside from the exotic matter, there is a theory i have posted about in a different topic, which asks if it would be possible that instead of propelling crafts through space at a certain speed, We should be moving space around the craft technically. I know it sounds crazy right? Move space around the craft, I certainly cant do the mathematics required to show you what i mean, But some simple internet searches on warp speed and you'l find the ideas.

No problem , Hope you enjoy

everyone I have been reading a book "surely you're joking mr Feynman, and If anyone can get a copy or read it online somewhere it's strongly recommended. Now Pages 46-52. he talks about watching himself go into a sleep and makes observations in order to do a study for his philosophy paper,(although he continued to practice this after the pape was handed in) He manages to conclude that thoughts become more and more random until finaly the brain switches off. it's hard to explain but the writer makes a marvelous job. I noticed on page 52 he talks about Just knowing as well. for those of you who dont know, Richard Feynman won the nobel prize for physics in 1965. He was truly a great man and i think i will do some more research into him. Inspiring. let me know if you check it out.

So I was given a book by someone who is a distant friend of the family who had found this old book lying around that they thought i might like, I wasn't sure picked it up and within the first 2 pages it had be so damn interested i couldn't wait to see how the rest of the book turned out. Il type you the back of the book. "Winner of the Nobel prize for physics in 1965, Richard Feynman was one of the world's greatest theoretical physicists, but he was also a man who fell, often jumped into adventure. An artist safecracker practical joker and storyteller Feynmans life was a series of combustible combinations made possible by his unique mixture of high intelligence, unquenchable curiosity and eternal skepticism. Over a period of years, Feynman's conversations with his friend Ralph Leighton were first taped then set down as they appear here, little changed from their spoken form, giving a wise, funny, passionate and totally honest self portrait of one of the greatest men of our age." I would strongly recommend you to read this book somehow, It is truly fascinating. Let me know what you think if any of you do decide to give it a read. all the best

Well in that case, I would say that this topic is at least worthy of recognition in order to understand it better at least.

Hi mate, thanks for the input, I am certain it is from a dream, lets say you wake up and remember a normal dream, you KNOW its a dream and not real, then go back to sleep or get up whatever. it feels the same way once it hits you, You just know t was a dream,im certain of it. all the best you are right, There is quite a big group of people who have experienced it, But that would point in the direction of time being pre-written or on a loop , and when people get deja vu it is classed as not seeing the future but as an encoding error as you said so it is widely dismissed and not investigated in detail. Ok well i will start writing dreams down from now, But there is no way i can remember many dreams i have had, i can remember a few sure, But nowhere near them all, so to be accurate il start from now. The main flaw in this that i see is that, I NEVER remember the dreams when i wake up, it's only when something happens that i remember them, and know that it was a dream. And so all the dreams i would remember would not make any difference as they are not the dreams that "contain" the deja vu moments, (sorry hard to explain) I shall try though just for the sake of it. Inow you are completely right, Id like to take back me saying that i was CERTAIN, Of course i couldn't be certain.and you are right , I suspect , and i am sure in my own mind, But of course i cant be 100% sure, That wouldn't be scientifically right. and i have been looking at a very very wide range of research. And you are right again you should never start with a conclusion and only look for data that supports it, you will never get anywhere that way, I apologize if i came across that way, However if you do some research which i think you already have, most of the information does basically say , (much shortened of course) Your brain is playing tricks on you, and there is no way to prove it to anyone yet that i know, But i am Sure that it comes from a dream. My theory on why this is, Is because nobody wants to believe people can "see the future in their dreams" which is not the case. just out of interest, lets say i managed to conclude that i was right, i presented my findings and you and many other people agreed with the research. What would that point to ? Any ideas? Im looking at this from a purely philosophical point of view, Im sure you understand i am already pretty certain that im right, Not sure, but pretty convinced as it's been happening since i was young. So what do you think it would mean if i was right? inow thanks again for your constant input mate Interesting, may i ask how you came to believe this ?

But as i said, I have had hundreds of dreams Not one of them was ever a deja vu one. it's not like you wake up and have had this vision in your sleep. it is the exact opposite, In fact you dont even know you'v had the dream until something triggers it as i said before. just because you documented dreams that you remembered when you woke up, does not mean that those were the particular ones that would have caused deja vu.So would have absolutely no scientific position whatsoever and would only be used as possible notes and for your own interest. you said it yourself you have had deja vu since then, And in your deja vu, do you "know" what will happen next? Or is it just a familiar feeling? every single one of my deja vu experiences i have remembered as a dream, and it isn't my brain registering things i see as memory's straight away. First of all, im not claiming that we can all see the future in our dreams, That sounds insane, It could only be a select few of us and we don't "see" the future until it happens, which at that moment it becomes the present, and you have about 10 seconds worth of "knowing" and you do just know what will happen etc as you have seen it before. And Second , of course saying that a small group of people who do experience this have a disorder or are delusional ;makes more sense than "people can see the future in their dreams" but we as a society have a duty to at least follow this up. Im asking how could we scientifically back it up? because i KNOW this is true, But without proof is useless because im more likely to be locked up for talking about it than helped. and philosophically if it was true , why would it be?

Ahh i see i must have misunderstood what you meant. Inow's may seem the most plausible, But i can only tell you what i know. If you remember something you forgot a long time ago, You can remember if it was a dream or not, it is similar, you just know it was a dream. To be honest i realize i do sound arrogant here, possibly unwilling to accept other's opinions, However if you were the same i think you too would make the same choice. In the aspect of dreams, recording them wouldn't work etc as Never once have i had one of these dreams and remembered it, until it happened, and even at that it is for a very short few seconds around about 10 i would say from when i realize.But it is a well known fact that the average human dreams hundreds of times per night and we rarely remember even one. may i ask how we can rule out the hypothesis of there being a correlation between Deja vu and dreaming? It actually seems a very reasonable and plausible explanation. The only other alternatives would require me to be mentally deficient which is not the case. Im most certainly not, and while this condition would not require me to have severe disabilities, i can assure you that there is no problem there. I know that it is possible to basically stimulate someones brain into having an episode of "deja vu" But that isn't the case , all you are doing there really is Mindfucking the person manually , into thinking the present is a memory, Excuse the language. This is far from what happens to me.

Hi mate, I dont write down my dreams but i am going to start. You see one of the things that strikes me is that people are saying how do you know it was not your brain playing tricks on you, registering vision in your memory banks. Tomgwyther, let me explain a bit mate, the dreams you have that you remember are not your deja vu dreams. You do not remember them untill something happens like ceasium described where he looked at the blackboard from a different angle, and it triggered it. No i cant describe it other than There is a feeling, You just know,it is certain that you had dreamt this before , and now are remembering it because it is coming true. Im the same exactly mate, Im not dellusional about being meant for some plot by the universe, I do not believe in god, My views are highly scientific. when the moment gets set into motion, when you catch something at the right angle or see it the right way, you already know what is going to happen, you couldn't act in a way to make your dream come true, because you are already in the same place as your dream, every single thing in the room or person is there as was the same in your dream, And you just Know, i cant describe this bit, You just know, you have this feeling of knowing, it becomes clear, You almost dont need to understand it at the time because you Know what is going to happen, and you know why, because you dreamt it. Ceasium i too cannot wait for the day when there is some cold hard facts on it, I would be happy to help any scientific study on the subject any way i could, So long as they didn't assume i was this wind up artist or quack. tomgwyther forgot to say earlier, it sounds to me like you had deja vu when you were younger but it's not happened in a while, maybe due to age i dont know, But if every single bump in your dream was correct and when you were stripping wallpaper that had been on the wall for years, yet you knew what was behind it, i would put money on it that when it occured you almost definetly just Knew what would happen, you just knew you had a feeling. it's just the way it works. Inow i like your information there, lets hypothesise that the sense of smell mentioned is replaced by sight, an when we see something that we have seen before, (in the dream) a very detailed recollection of that moment in time comes flooding back to you even though it is yet to happen, and as a result you Know what will happen for the length of your deja vu, as long as you have that "knowing" feeling, You can just tell what happens next, you dont even think about it, it just hits you, Suddenly. This is exactly what i described earlier .when i was talking about the brain having a form of "subconscious" that stores all these memorys,but you dont recollect them untill something familiar comes up. your form of "deja vu" sounds different to everyone elses so far mate. Ceasium would you be interested in designing some sort of scientific experiment.? Im not sure how we could do it, as the dreams are not ones we remember, and we cant realise the moment untill something triggers it, even if we had some sort of data recorders analysing the brain and body in as many ways as we could at the time of a "trigger moment" how would we analyse that they knew what was going to happen or that the person had seen it before? and even if we managed that how could we prove that the persons brain hadn't registered it as a memory when it actually was just seen there and then, because that seems to be the point people keep making.

Hi menageriamanor, first of all i would like to thank you for your input and your theory on how my brain might be tricking me is very interesting. However in terms of a psychological payoff, It does interest and intrigue me yes, But i am not obsessed with it, i was trying to make that point in an earlier post, I rarely even talk about it to others or think of it to myself, I have come to just sort of accept it. It is rare as i stated before so i haven't really come to accept it as normal and don't think of it as something that will definitely happen again. In the instance where a pot fell of the shelf, it really was stable, there were another 6 or so pots and various other small things on the shelf which didn't so much as budge, it must have fallen due to being placed there incorrectly. And your theory on when i go to a new place in quite ingenious, however i would have to be technically insane or mentally disabled in some way for it too be true, Im sure you can agree, That if you go somewhere you have never been and your brain starts registering things your seeing out your eyes at that moment. as memory's that have already happened you have a problem. And even if it was true why does this not happen all the time, and if it my brain had somehow gotten into some "cycle" (couldn't think of the exact word) where i get deja vu when i go to new places then it would only occur then. This isn't the case and it happens at random points in random time. of course it would, if i could choose what i "see" then of course it would be the lottery numbers, But i Dont so much as see the future, as when it happens it is the present, I have just seen it all before so i know what happens next for a second. As im writing this i remembered something, I read somewhere that there was a study done on flies, and they can see a millisecond into the future apparently. To be blunt i don't think that there is some sort of issue with my brain playing tricks on me, it does me absolutely fine in every other aspect of life. this is just an anomaly. I dont get any type of relief or sense of accomplishment when it occurs at all and it only happens for a few seconds, and compared to the months apart they happen , there isn't enough time to "feel" much from them. I am almost sure that my brain isn't playing tricks on me. Im now looking for some sort of philosophical explanation i suppose as to why it could happen if it was real, let's say you all believe me, Then what? because otherwise i would be on these forums forever trying to explain that im not some nut who thinks he can see the future. I suppose it could be my subconscious deliberately embroidering my memory, But that is highly unlikely as It does not explain how when my deja vu happens, I really could say anything from, A guy is going to walk round that corner wearing a green hat, to a car goes through a red light here or that pot falls of the shelf. Anything and usually i have just enough time to say it before it happens. you made a good point also that most of the moments have no effect on my life, which makes me wonder why they occur. why did i dream that particular moment if it involves no choices , or anything useful. ? If i have dreamed it though, Must it not imply something?? I mean they are very detailed. REMEMBER it is not a vision or seeing the future. I will be out on a normal day like everyone else walking down the road, Then i will see something, il think, iv seen this before, and tell whoever im with something that will happen next. (everything is still going on around me the exact same as it was) so it is as detailed as if you looked around your room right now, all the things in there are there, My sight isn't limited etc there could be people walking about, dog running, a car driving, A shop door opening, or someone stopping a bus. It is just me that has seen it before in my dream which is weird because how did all the people in the street i dont know, and all the cars or buses that i pictured etc be right there at the same moment in time when i am. ? SOMETHING knew that i would be there at that particular moment. Im also not some person who had a bad childhood or teenage years and tries to make up for it by convincing themselves they are special or anything like that. everything's been fairly average. One of my deja vu's would be, Im walking down the road with my friend, someone steps out in front of me, coming out of a close or a house, i think i'v seen this before, I looked to the side and noticed just your average everyday things going on around me. end of deja vu. That was a basic one that's happened to me. Nothing happened at all in the deja vu or dream, but i still had seen it before and knew what would happen next, even if it didn't stand out, like everything carrying on as normal. iv had others one being the one i have told you about but il describe it better seeing as i dont think i actually have yet, I was in the kitchen when i was around 15 or 16, my mum was on the computer, there was something to eat cooking and everything was going on as normal, standard day. I looked at my mum, she said something and it just "clicked". i said i have seen this before and then said about the pot falling of the shelf, Literally just as my mum is going "Your crazy, How do you know that?" it fell right off the damn shelf. I have no idea in hell why or how this happens. I think that we would be foolish not to look into it though, I cant even remember some just just fade away as they were not important. BUT if we are not crazy, and you yourself are the same as me, then the universe shows us those moments for a reason i think. I mean why else logically would you be shown something meaningless in a dream, that you dont remember, then when it happens you realise, Oh damn i have seen this before! i cant stress enough though, these are not visions ,you dont see something then it happens. i dont even know i have had the dreams until i see something and i cant explain it, iv seen it before, so i know what happens next.You just know, there is no mistaking that this has happened before in the moment, you know exactly what will happen, I have seen this before. None of mine have been of important things etc, maybe they were important points in history that we dont know, maybe they were markers who knows it could be anything. but am i right in saying that if we have dreamt it then it happens, we must be living in a predetermined universe? I mean i always have been someone who though you have choices, but it could be so limited as to you think you are making a choice but really you were destined to make that decision anyway. why does it let us see these exact moments in advance? are we meant to do something ? i dont understand it, but i intend to find out.

Hi ceasium , Thanks for the input it intrigued me. The way you described your deja vu sounded familiar to the way mine happen, and your logic seems to actually be quite accurate about people acting upon impulse to "make" the future come true, And also seems like the most logical explanation. However in my case it just wouldn't work and here's why. In my deja vu "moments" it is mainly other things that happen, i am merely there at that moment in time and see something that triggers it , then il just be able to tell you whats going to happen, almost like when you watch a film you'v seen a hundred times before. You just know what's going to happen next. Also the surroundings are the same as in my dream. So i am in the right place for it to happen at the right time. But lets say that something or the universe or my brain or whatever your theory is on what causes it, was choosing moments to "highlight" for me to see, something that would make it stand out from the rest maybe? because how did whatever created the dream in the first place Know that i was ever going to be in the right place to even see the moment that would trigger the deja vu? And then why would it give me deja vu of that particular moment? Hi Inow, like everyone else sure Iv smoked pot, but no im not into psychedelics heavily or anything like that.I wouldn't call my circumstances traumatic really either though I've not had the easiest of times. But my deja vu experiences have been happening since long before i even thought of smoking and long before anything traumatic ever occurred. Thanks to All For the input, It is fascinating.

I know and being honest you cant believe reports you hear, unless they can prove it somehow. although im not doubting anyone as if it's possible with me it could be possible with anyone... mine has been around as long as i can remember and is with me until now and im 18, so still fairly young. I wonder if i can have the equivalent of a lucid dream with it, that would be the next level. then i could prove it when prompted too,