SamBridge

You can post any equation you want, but as with any mathematical model that is applied to the universe, it's just a matter of if whether or not or how big the difference between that equation and any given relevant physical observation and if it is 0 or greater, or an infinite amount of nines after 99%, thus proving they are the same, which as per your liking I suppose I can model with arithmetic: Expr1 - Expr2 = 0, ---> Expr1 = Expr2, or "the difference between expression one and expression two is zero, therefore expression one equals expression two." But we still have further to go as I said, we'll always have further to go when we try and boil everything down to just functions as ordered pairs. As long as there is a lack of proof that someone can't tell a difference between having freedom and having no freedom, computational theory of the mind will never have a chance of being fully accurate. If you have statistics, that's getting better, it's getting closer to reality, you might be able to accurately model probability with 99% accuracy in a closed system,

You seem to be saying relativity is wrong, but you're not close.

I'm definitely not a professional because if I was I'd have to care what other people thought of me. The island of stability doesn't require that gluons have an infinite range or that their mechanics be altered, it merely theorizes that nucleons in somewhat larger nuclei can have a larger binding energy between nucleons using a "magic" geometric structures that allow the nucleus to hold itself together with more efficiency, thus becoming more stable.

But energy and mass are somewhat similar, even photons bend the fabric of space, and there's models of relativistic higg's fields that show a similar effect of mass increase via acceleration. Doesn't matter if its a little outdated, there's experimental evidence like in particle accelerators verifying that you don't measure mass as being constant when observing something that gains velocity to near the speed of light. Assuming that Einstein was crack pot and mass isn't relative in any way shape or form, if wasn't an accurate model in a lot of scenarios it can still approximate many others, just as it doesn't even matter that Newtonian mechanics is outdated, it won't change the fact that u+v is still mathematically a good approximation for speeds that total less than 1% the speed of light. That could be an additional component as well, objects that travel near the speed of light take more time such that an exchange rate of heat from kinetic motion may decrease, but the time slowing down doesn't discount the fact that an object still physically contracts.

No it doesn't because my conclusion is that the fuel didn't ignite in the aliens frame and it didn't in hysor's frame either, which many people agree is would happen equally as much as if it DID ignite in one frame THEN it would ignite in the other. The difference is I assumed in one frame the fuel didn't ignite in one frame and drew a conclusion to show how it might not physically happen in the other, no contradiction.

Right, because they are separated by physical difference in space the information about events take finite time to reach any given observer, the events that are separated by distance can be measured as happening at a different time in another frame even if they appear to happen at the same time in one frame since the distance between events and the time they take to achieve that certain relative distance is also relative. If say, I'm holding one ball in both my hands, and I measure my throwing my arms and releasing them at the same time, a near-light observer approaching me would have to measure that the electrical impulses that went from my brain to both my right arm and left arm took more time in a longer distance to reach one arm but not the other, so really it's nothing that special, its a direct result of the relativistic all effects we already know at the same time.

Simultaneousity isn't relative, that's fine, but the fact of the matter remains that you cannot put all of space into terms of only what happens in time, they are different dimensions, there is a physical contraction that you see beyond a relative simultaneity of measuring the ends of the object that is caused by the different phenomena of spacial length contraction and that's why there's two different operators for lorent'z transformations that describe this phenomena. Only considering the time dilation of the matter cannot account for the special metric differences that one would measure with something like density or the distance one says is one point and the next.

But as the video explains, the train does in fact fit into the tunnel when it's contracted from an outside frame that sees it moving, the outside frames are just as correct as frames from the inside of the train which he also says. And as the video also explains, time dilation isn't the only factor, something physically looks shorter when it's appears to be traveling near the speed of light in addition to the time dilation because time isn't the only component of space, there's also 3 other dimensions of space that change relativistic-ally that the axis of time is orthogonal to. Time dilation can't account for the entire phenomena of a hyperbolic approach to the speed of light, so If the spacial dimension also didn't change, it would imply the near-light object's spacial metric didn't contract from our frame or with the environment from near-light object's frame and therefore measure that it traveling a greater distance in one measured second than light could have traveled in one second. Didn't he say at the end the math was simple? If you want to see relative density, take m/v, then plug in the relativistic equations for relativistic mass and relativistic volume.

Yeah, that's what 8 other people already said, and I merely provided an explanation for how it physically happens to be the case beyond "that's just how it is."

Look for yourself, there's a relativistic density equation in this thread. If atomic structures didn't contract then matter would become degenerate from length contraction, there's no force stopping them from contracting, I don't think you understand how length contraction works, look at the equations yourself, pretend you have a sphere that's 10 nanometers across and apply the length contraction formula at 99% the speed of light and see what happens. If I take a ruler and send it off near the speed of light, it appears shorter. If I take an atomic ruler that's the size of a hydrogen atom and send it off near the speed of light, it shrinks too, the fact that atoms are really small doesn't matter. "There is no relativistic mass"? What do you call Mo/(1-v^2/c^2)^(1/2) http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/HEP/QuarkNet/mass.html You're simply wrong.

Did you actually read the explanation? It's not critical geometry because the probability stays the same due to constant geometric proportion, that's the reason why the configuration of 1x1x.5 isn't critical, I'm agreeing with you that the geometry is why it's not critical.

Well relativity still has classical components. If I put 8 1*1*1 cubes inside a 10*10*10 cube, then I shrink it such that I have 8 1*1*.5 cubes in a 10*10*5 cube, the first ratio of volumes is 8u^3;1000u^3, the second ratio of volumes is 4u^3:500u^3, the same exact proportion. Both 8/1000 and 4/500 yield the same number, thus the probability of finding a certain smaller cube within the respective larger cube stays the same. And, a reaction going critical doesn't necessarily require an increased density, just a high enough probability of nucleons running into various nuclei which coincidentally can be achieved with physical force compression but not length contraction.

But what your saying doesn't make any sense at all because the back of the object is moving at the same speed as the front. There's already an equation that models relative density, and according to that model, you get a higher mass in a smaller volume, even if it doesn't happen the same way as force compression.

No, we're talking about static gravitational effects where what I am saying upholds. It's not a constant "recalculation," it's a correlation, recalculations take time, correlations don't. Time doesn't need to pass for a gravitational field to exist where it already exists. If what you were saying was true, it would imply everything would stop existing if we stopped to look at an individual moment in time.

I'm not really sure what you're suggesting, relative density can vary from other frames which we know with the relative mass equation and the relative length equation, but there's just something that we haven't completely identified that is kept constant during length contraction that isn't kept constant during compression due to force that accounts for the fact that contracted matter doesn't necessarily become degenerate matter. Anyway, there's already another thread with a similar topic so we should make plans to return to the original discussion and move this one to the other thread.

I don't doubt that you can build a good computer, I just doubt determinism can universally exist because of scientific experiments. If there are inherently random properties of the universe, you can never have 100% certainty that anything is physically deterministic, including AIs and biological systems. Thus, we can never determine with 100% accuracy what all future results will be to prove there is 0 degree of freedom, or in other words, that every position of all matter and energy long every axis at any given point in time can be modeled as a function, generating only one possible set of outputs for every single set of inputs with a 1:1 correlation. Good luck making a deterministic equation of the universe. I'll repeat it again for you to consider since you didn't seem to completely address it but rather gave logically inconsistent one-liners. A conscious entity can distinguish having no freedom from what they measure as their own conscious action of measuring in a state that is defined as having freedom or "choice", therefore there must be a difference between the two, otherwise logically they could not possibly be distinguishable and the appearance of having choice would be equal to actually having no choice. If on the other hand, it was proven that for any given conscious entity that it is impossible distinguish between how they measure their own conscious state as having a choice and a lack of an ability to do so, then it would imply there was no difference between what is measured as but in reality is only an illusion of choice and what is measured as no choice, which can coexist with a lack of determinism, but I don't think we've gotten to that point and I don't think we know if such a point can exist. To put it frankly, we don't have the evidence to prove what is being suggested to its full extent and it may very well be improvable. And the theory in this discussion isn't even considering the epistemology of our measurements anyway. In current physics, there's ways to mix and match the more Newtonian views of systems by saying certain events are more or less probable with certain parameters, so it's not like you'd be completely wrong or anything like that, there can still easily be rational and logical patterns, especially considering the fact that mathematical patterns themselves uphold the property of their correlation independently of time and space.

No idea what that's suppose to mean. But, a correlation isn't a change, it's almost the opposite of a change. 4*3=12 is never going to change, that statement will always be true regardless of how much time passes anywhere and regardless of where anyone is. Only changes in which correlation matter/energy decides to follow need to be observed as being at or less than light, such as changes in position, how they are affected by differences in gravity, ect. But, I don't need any amount of time to pass to say "position x = position x" because the correlation is never untrue, the state of correlation is independent of physical dimension. You can see this exact propety in entanglement, assuming our current models and not some wormhole or 10-dimensional position model, whereby correlation, entangled particles become the same particle, and since any object equals itself regardless of where it is in space, we measure the phenomena as being seemingly instantaneously upheld independently of its position in space.

: Not only did I already state that the atomic structures contract according to relativity which makes your first point moot (even though they DO actually pack more tightly to increase density as well and relativistic mass increases even more), I already demonstrated a mathematical equation that accurately models that density varies from a wide variety of other frames. There's no reason to talk about what the near-light object sees from it's own frame if we're talking about what other frames see. You keep bringing that point up, but the basis even for proper time isn't what something measures from it's own frame, it's what something measures something else it as if that something else were in an inertial frame from the original something's frame. It doesn't matter if something isn't denser from it's own frame, I'm also not in a position I'm not, and x=x. But that doesn't matter from other frames, because as the equation points out, density of something will change in the frame of something that see's that object moving, and if it's inertial, it's still an outside view that's saying it's inertial, and all views will be simultaneously correct about their observations.

Except that it isn't "communication," it's "correlation," a fundamentally different property which doesn't deal with traveling any distance over any time. Do I need distance over time for 4*3 to = 12? Nope. You don't need time simply for things to specially exist.

So if I took a rod that had a 4 inches in radius and 5 meters long, and dropped it on a 4-inch radius black hole that hovers above ground (lets assume we have enough force to prevent the Earth from being sucked into it and to keep boht the Earth and the black hole stationary to a scientist testing the situation) in such a way that the center-of-mass-line that ran through he rod was perpendicular to the surface of the black hole, what exactly would I see? Part of the rod would look indefinitely frozen and indefinitely shrink in time while the rest of it continue to fall to the ground or something?

Alright, we have a better answer thanks to bickering in some other thread. If we assume the aliens never saw the nuclear fuel ignite, then from hysor's frame even though the nuclear storage does gain density as it contracts and atoms appear to move closer together, the physical dimensions of the atoms themselves also shrink by the same proportion from the length contraction, therefore they will never come into a proportionally closer contact that allows pieces of nuclei to travel with enough relative energy and with enough probability of hitting another nucleus to allow the reaction to go critical. To boil it down, throwing a beach ball in a room can have the same probability of ending up somewhere in its domain as throwing a marble in a small box, so in this case the probability of a smaller neutron/proton hitting a smaller nucleus in a smaller volume yields the same or at least in some way similar probability as a big neutron/proton hitting a big nucleus in a big volume, thus not allowing the reaction to go critical no matter how great the contraction is.

IF there's a change, sure, but if there is no change, then no, there's no communication happening whatsoever, gravity instantaneously has an indefinite effect on all mass-bearing objects in space it has already propagated too. Similarly, dimensions constitute space at all points they already exist at, and there is no measured point where space doesn't already exist. In fact, it would be impossible to measure the absence of dimension.

Then we have nothing to disagree on.

Actually, all 4 of you are wrong, maybe even I was too, I derived the equation for relative density. If we assume a cubical object with the x and y components forming a plane perpendicular to the direction of motion, and we call one side K1 and another K2 (which are both constants), then the relative density can be modeled as follows: [math] Mo/(K1*K2*Lo)*(1/(1-V^2/C^2)) = (m/v)' [/math] or [math] D' = Do/(K1*K2(1/1-v^2/c^2))[/math] So these means density definitely varies, and in fact, you get an increased mass in an even smaller volume. So now all that's left is to show with some equation that relates density to the distance between atoms and mass that forms a finite volume that the atoms will shrink as they approach the speed of light in such a way that length the cube is contracted by will be less than the proportion of the proportion of the relative distance between atoms and the new dimensional size of the atoms themselves that show their electro-magnetic fields will also contract in the direction of motion therefore inhibiting matter from reaching a degenerate state.

The difference is you didn't really explain why a contracted star is guaranteed to not become a black hole, you just said a black hole contracts and a star contracts, and there's some relation between the way a star contracts and the way a black hole does. But it's not the pillar of relativity, it's the pillar of logic and reasoning itself, relativity already assumes it in the same way that it assumes 1+1=2. There's already no logical way something can be outside of its own frame.