Moontanman

You do make a point, even in UFO literature the idea of UFO sightings coming in groups called "flaps" and it has long been known that one UFO sighting is often followed by many more in that area. The 1952 Washington DC sightings were two weekends in a row and were just the last few sightings of a "flap" that had been moving down the east coast for days or weeks before July 19th weekend and the following weekend. As for phenomena and phenomenon the former is plural the later is singular... I guess phenomena is the entire set of sightings and phenomenon would be an individual sighting?

I looked I couldn't find a dedicated thread, it might have been mentioned before in this or another thread. Predicting what aliens might do or might not do is a fools errand. I have my doubts that a "UFP" exists someplace but even a probe could be the source of all our sightings. Probes could take thousands of years to arrive ad then start to "print out" various machines and drones to explore even create biological beings from scratch to colonise the Kuiper belt if they wanted to. Almost anything becomes possible if controlled hydrogen fusion is possible.

I do not buy into aliens, I think there is sufficient evidence to justify an ongoing program to investigate this phenomena. Government secrecy is a given, the only question is why. "Nearly impossible" these two words negate this argument completely! Does unexplained mean mean investigate no further? Again, what is your point? Are you trying to say that because crazies exist UAP must be created by crazies? Your opinion is no better than mine or anyone else's. So because there are people who want aliens to be real the whole phenomena should be ignored? This is no more than I have been suggesting all along, legitimate research is needed! I think you owe Avi Loeb an apology, Avi being labeled a crack pot over this just confirms the gist of my claims of ridicule. If the man made a mistake does he deserve to labeled a crack pot? If he had misidentified a an astronomical phenomena not associated with UAP would the label crack pot have been applied? You come across as someone who has made up their mind that there is nothing to this phenomena other than crazies and crackpots. You have not looked into the evidence we currently have other than a cursory glance and simply tow the party line that there is nothing to the phenomena other than a bunch of crazies running around trying to get attention and create chaos. I would suggest you do a little bit of research to see how far from the point of this you really are. There really are reports that are inexplicable and not because of a lack of data... in fact some reports have an embarrassing amount of data and the US gov response is often deceptive and down right silly, often as unbelievable as aliens. Even one confirmed sighting would be a profound event in human history, can we really afford to ignore to ignore this? I could list a bunch of sightings that are in the inexplicable files but I've already done that over and over here only to see remarks that assume the reports are hoaxes "looks like a hub cap thrown through the air" is especially irksome as though that is a realistic critique of a photo that has been investigated by real scientists and found to be real if not explained. Its tiresome to have to deal with people who think I must be a crazy simply because I do not buy into the idea of aliens being a possible explanation of some percentage of reports as impossible. The 1952 Washington DC "Merry go round" is a prime example, it may have very well been two weekends of crazies driving the narrative but the actual reports suggest otherwise, in fact old photo graphic plates from Mount Palomar Observatory at that time caught three lights that could have been as close as Earth orbit. I am going to post a short video about this, it has the appropriate scientific papers listed as the sources for this info. It has to do with the capture of anomalous lights outside of Earth's atmosphere during the sightings in DC in 1952. These plates were found in an reinvestigation of old photos from Mt Palomar, of course the photos are not conclusive but they are another indication of something unusual going on those two weekends in July. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3i4ozTjcR0 If you want to understand this phenomena you have to climb down the rabbit hole, you have to look at the good the bad and the ugly, you cannot view this from the clouds and expect to see the rabbit.

Yes Depends really on how much influence the US has world wide on the issue, I have no way to accurately quantify that, some countries have no real means or interest and defer to larger countries. I think there is reason to think the US has considerable influence on the stance other countries take on the issue. Other countries have their own agendas at the very least but "yes", generally the US has limited influence around the world even if that limit can be quite high in some circles. The US is not all powerful but the US does have considerable influence over smaller countries on many issues. It has long been said the US has significant influence on Central and South American countries in this area. Reports that indicate that investigations are often run by the US military in these countries but confirming that is problematic at best. NATO is also supposed to tow the party line but France would be an outlier if that is true.

There have been a great many leaks in this "secret" but they are all assumed to be bs because they are often so damn weird... as though leaks about aliens wouldn't almost certainly be weird by definition.

I didn't suggest the US was doing that, in fact other countries are pursuing this puzzle independant of the USA, France being an example. There have been some claims that the USA has influenced other countries, Great Britain, Australia, and Canada are often used as examples but I cannot confirm that.

I know, if not for @swansont I know I would have ridden "certain" threads off into the desert to be lost forever by now!

The scientific community in the USA, or to be more precise, the scientific community that depends on the US gov for funding, needs to support the scientific study and stop the suppression of studying the phenomena. The suppression of scientific inquiry of UAP needs to stop. I know you keep saying that all I have is anecdotal evidence of this. I have however pointed out instances that strongly indicate this, the systemic suppression of information is all but impossible to prove with one incident. The institutionalized suppression of the study of UFOs is part of the very institution that is tasked with the suppression and the study of UAP by the US gov... I am well aware this is classic "conspiracy theory" territory but... just because its a conspiracy theory doesn't mean its not a real conspiracy. It could very well be the suppression has to do with military secretes but at some point even military secretes no longer need to be secretes. Secrecy has become more important than the secretes it protects and this need to keep secretes just for the sake of keeping secretes has IMHO contributed greatly to the obfuscation of the issue. My first suggestion to a path towards truth is to stop suppressing secretes for the sake of secrecy!

Very interesting, thank you for investigating this! I'd give you a thumbs up but I'm out for the day. Did Ni ions play a role in this or am I thinking of another process that uses Ni?

Ammonia is still an important food source for life, at least in aquatic captives. If not for bacteria that oxidize ammonia it would be very difficult to keep aquariums... 😁

Don't forget about ammonia, it is thought to have been present as well.

The book was one of his non fiction titles so it wasn't a story, at the time I wasn't aware of his fiction work. In fact I a pretty sure it was the first of his books I ever picked up. I remember little from it other than it intrigued me big time. It inspired me to write a report in HS about a biochemistry based in HF as a solvent and the ecology it might support.

Nitrous oxide from lightning ?

Asimov was a professor of biochemistry he has some intriguing ideas around possible alien biochemistries, he inspired me to want to be a biochemist until life had other plans, lol

When the US Air Force hired Edward Condon to do the Condon Report, Condon Report Critique, he was quoted as saying "The real trick will be to give the impression of an impartial scientific study while knowing there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon" J.Allen Hynek, who the air force hired to study UFOs, eventually quit Project Blue Book and basically went over to the "dark" side said his reason was the the Air Force wasn't interested in actually investigating anything and actually withheld important info to facilitate their debunking and all they wanted him to do was find something... anything... they could blame a sighting on no matter if it was accurate.

Asimov detailed it out but that was 50+ years ago so I don't remember the exact details but I do remember his talking about that very thing. He coined it as a saturation unsaturation cycle involving fats replacing proteins. He also stated that a lung full of high pressure hydrogen, I assume he was thinking this planet would have a deep atmosphere, would contain many orders of magnitude more hydrogen than a lung full of our air would oxygen but don't remember the details beyond that. I wish I still had that book, I've tried to find it but it's one of his more obscure titles.

You should contact Livermore labs.

I remember reading a book by Isaac Asimov where he described a planet where hydrogen was the breathing gas instead of oxygen, more recently Sara Seager has suggested that hycean worlds might support life. The bio chemistry of a metazoan that breathes hydrogen would be very interesting.

So there is no information to be gleaned from old studies of anything else? And I agree yet this is not what science driven by the US gov is doing. France seems to be doing their best to improve their information by supporting the investigations. The US does its best to suppress information and investigation. The US has be shown to be guilty of outright lies and deception in its "scientific" investigations. And yet I have presented evidence of this ridicule, many times, Avi Loeb is currently experiencing this according to interviews he has done recently. His own colleges are engaging in this ridicule, the word crackpot is being thrown around. And yet the gov of France continues to do science while the US gov ridicules the source. Maybe the poor quality is due to the lack of rigor among the people who want the investigations to die.

So nothing conclusive means no value? Maybe in 20 years we'll have controlled fusion, we've only been pursuing this for 80 years or so and it's always just 20 years away but we continue to gather info hoping that eventually we will figure it out. Gathering accurate data about something potentially so important is never a useless endeavor. Ridiculing something because you just can't imagine how it could be possible is such a great way to figure something out.

https://cnes.fr/en/web/CNES-en/5866-geipan-uap-investigation-unit-opens-its-files.php

Interesting, I honestly thought hydrogen in the form of protons was the energy of the cell, I seem to be lost in the bushes on this. I know there are bacteria that produce free hydrogen as part of their metabolism and bacteria that use free hydrogen as an energy source and give off methane as waste and of course there are bacteria that consume methane... brings back memories of why I was so obsessed with biochemistry in high school. I love the complexity and order of chemistry.

I think it's interesting that different countries have different attitudes about this phenomenon. France seems to have the most progressive attitude with serious research being done via actual experts being employed by the government to investigate sightings. The USA seems to have to have the most repressive systems that appear to be geared toward ridiculing the sources to poison the well rather than investigation to find the truth... interesting how the same subject is treated by different schools of thought. Investigate the sources or ridicule the sources... which is scientific?

What is the significance of the H2? Is it fuel, waste, or something else?