Moontanman

I can't seem to get it right...

I've tried to post it several times in several different formats, I have no idea why it doesn't show up... sorry...

Nonetheless they are still primates, primate is not a genus...

The "die off" is a misconception, fluctuating predator populations linked to fluctuating lemming populations not mass starvation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming This is also not true, natural disasters often bring about extinction perhaps most famous of these is the demise of the dinosaurs but many others tied to different events bear this out. Again not true The cladogram below shows one possible classification sequence of the living primates,[16][17] with groups that use common (traditional) names are shown on the right. Primatomorpha

Umm I was replying to Swansont

The point is that a huge number of guns are already in circulation, the price of gold goes up and up but it is still in demand. Guns pass back and forth through the population like money. Make no mistake school shootings are not just about assault rifles. Please define regular guns...

I know what you mean, I would bet that within a mile radius of me right now there is enough guns to load a semi...

I never said we shouldn't do anything, I am just stating the obstacles that have to be overcome. And BTW I do think opiates should be legal, the war on drugs has cost us more lives than the drugs themselves ever did..

By black market I am talking about the sales from one private citizen to another, even if the gun can be traced back to its original owner all they have to say is that it was stolen and they are out of danger to prosecute. Also there is a huge number of unregistered guns as well that are traded back and forth for both money goods and services. Also there is an active trade in guns from black market dealers who traffic guns and who buy guns from people who need the money and then resales them with no check except cash. Beside the really huge numbers of guns not registered the number of guns passing through the economy is large, large enough that costs are still depressed on most guns. Things like assault rifles go up drastically but regular guns not so much. The market is glutted with them...

I do know what you mean, splitting wood is my go to relaxation...

Sounds like a good start! (hand saw? what are you Paul Bunyan?, I used an electric chain saw, I'm a wus evidently)

And therein lies the rub, most people who oppose gun control think that once they give in gun control with increase until no one can have guns. Even a hint of this will alienate many people...

Exactly!

Citizens united has to be repealed, this idea of unchained capitalism has to be stopped, the idea that only one type of gov can work when even our country is a combination of capitalist and socialist.. You are correct I misread this post:

I disagree, Trump was elected and he has the support of the people who have real influence...

You are probably right, Hitler was the missing word. No doubt, we need to fight for that. I look forward to you getting elected but some would say unless you are rich you can't get elected without the support of the elite who own the gov... You have my support. Bernie Sanders? We have to destroy their ability to bribe government officials...

You are missing one component, the idea that enough moderate politicians exist is contrary to reality. The special interest groups own the politicians quite literally. All or at least most of the special interest groups support each other almost fanatically. There are so few unowned politicians I'm not sure who isn't if any at all. The conservatives know this idea of guns, god, and capitalism is what keeps the masses inline. The god lobby supports the gun lobby and the capitalist lobby and so on. I can figure it out. Otherwise good people who would have destroyed any liberal who does these things supports the conservatives absolutely. A great many people actually think that Obama was the devil incarnate and that Trump is the "messiah" well almost anyway. I have actually heard them say we need someone like Trump to whip the country in line. seriously scary considering that was what they said about You know who (rule 34) I don't pretend to understand it but I will not pretend to like it.

To some extent I really think civil rights of minorities and the struggle to get them is a place we can get some guidance. When the civil rights movement really got traction it didn't get that traction because black people held the gov hostage or acted out violently (even though that did happen) what really mattered was white people stopped allowing the racist slime among us to blackmail us into agreeing with them. A great many white people knew racism was wrong but to speak out was social and political suicide. As the struggle lingered on more and more people began to stop allowing the status quo to remain. That didn't happen because whites feared backs it was because more and more white people began to grow a spine and speak out in favor of stopping the injustice. I have always thought Martin Luther King was the catalyst but his efforts wouldn't worked if the majority of people really were racist pigs... All of us who agree that gun control is good need to start speaking up. I have done so for quite some time but I am always stopped cold by the false dichotomy perpetrated by the gun lobby that gun control equals guns being banned. Until we can get control of the gun lobby and this can only be done through political reform we are simply spinning our wheels arguing and alienating the people we need to have on our side...

I am completely with you on this... Totally reasonable to me at least...

Again to get me on your team would require some differentiation between various types of guns. Simply stating guns are bad... mkay gets us nowhere. A great many people seem to live in a dream world where the cops protect and serve and help is just a phone call away. The police are just a phone call away but they do not stop crimes they investigate them. The main reason these studies get shelved is the gun lobby, the gun lobby can do this because of citizens united, citizens united can do this because business interests own the conservative party. There really is no liberal party, in name perhaps but they both have the same owners for the most part..

Ok, as I said I haven't bought anything in a great many years so effectively I have already done this. No one is lobbying politicians to do nothing other than the gun industry and they can do that due to "Citizens United" a law all the conservatives worship... They can cut any attempt to regulate guns to shreds before it is even considered. This is yet another flaw, I cannot get behind restricting hunting, I would be lying if I said I could. I may not hunt but keeping others from doing so is simply not the way the US has ever worked. Assault weapons are not part of the hunting culture and neither are hand guns... State rights are limited in this area, I'm not sure by how much but the same interests that control the federal gov also control state governments.

From guns sales of course but to really impact their bottom line would take far more people than are willing. Most of the people who are now calling for gun control either already have a gun or don't want a gun, people who pursue guns are not going to stop unless someone shoots them. Just like the boy who did the shooting in Florida, hurting the gun industry would not have affected him or his crime. Gun control might have.. BTW, I ask again, what could the gun industry do to correct the problem? It's like asking criminals not to rob anyone until this gun control thing is sorted out. Not going to happen, their own self interests will dictate their actions... I would think the vast majority of gun owners are similar to me, they have a gun a couple boxes of ammo and that is the extent of their gun purchases. I haven't spent a dime even on ammo for quite some time. I never fire them, they are not toys, they are tools, since i don't hunt anymore buying more guns or ammo makes no sense... Welll unless you arming for the zombie apocalypse..

They might but they have so much money to spend on buying politicians and to run ads that try to trigger people emotions I doubt very seriously you could get enough people to do it to affect their bottom line significantly. I really think enforcing laws we already have and closing the loop holes to those laws in the best way to go right now. Thinks like banning gun shows, banning sales by private individuals, real gun control in the form of licenses and training to get those licenses. The way we do now has failed, when a person can walk in and buy a gun with nothing but money and a smile we have a problem. BTW what exactly do you think the firearm industry is going to do to correct the problem?