Moontanman

And therein lies the rub, most people who oppose gun control think that once they give in gun control with increase until no one can have guns. Even a hint of this will alienate many people...

Exactly!

Citizens united has to be repealed, this idea of unchained capitalism has to be stopped, the idea that only one type of gov can work when even our country is a combination of capitalist and socialist.. You are correct I misread this post:

I disagree, Trump was elected and he has the support of the people who have real influence...

You are probably right, Hitler was the missing word. No doubt, we need to fight for that. I look forward to you getting elected but some would say unless you are rich you can't get elected without the support of the elite who own the gov... You have my support. Bernie Sanders? We have to destroy their ability to bribe government officials...

You are missing one component, the idea that enough moderate politicians exist is contrary to reality. The special interest groups own the politicians quite literally. All or at least most of the special interest groups support each other almost fanatically. There are so few unowned politicians I'm not sure who isn't if any at all. The conservatives know this idea of guns, god, and capitalism is what keeps the masses inline. The god lobby supports the gun lobby and the capitalist lobby and so on. I can figure it out. Otherwise good people who would have destroyed any liberal who does these things supports the conservatives absolutely. A great many people actually think that Obama was the devil incarnate and that Trump is the "messiah" well almost anyway. I have actually heard them say we need someone like Trump to whip the country in line. seriously scary considering that was what they said about You know who (rule 34) I don't pretend to understand it but I will not pretend to like it.

To some extent I really think civil rights of minorities and the struggle to get them is a place we can get some guidance. When the civil rights movement really got traction it didn't get that traction because black people held the gov hostage or acted out violently (even though that did happen) what really mattered was white people stopped allowing the racist slime among us to blackmail us into agreeing with them. A great many white people knew racism was wrong but to speak out was social and political suicide. As the struggle lingered on more and more people began to stop allowing the status quo to remain. That didn't happen because whites feared backs it was because more and more white people began to grow a spine and speak out in favor of stopping the injustice. I have always thought Martin Luther King was the catalyst but his efforts wouldn't worked if the majority of people really were racist pigs... All of us who agree that gun control is good need to start speaking up. I have done so for quite some time but I am always stopped cold by the false dichotomy perpetrated by the gun lobby that gun control equals guns being banned. Until we can get control of the gun lobby and this can only be done through political reform we are simply spinning our wheels arguing and alienating the people we need to have on our side...

I am completely with you on this... Totally reasonable to me at least...

Again to get me on your team would require some differentiation between various types of guns. Simply stating guns are bad... mkay gets us nowhere. A great many people seem to live in a dream world where the cops protect and serve and help is just a phone call away. The police are just a phone call away but they do not stop crimes they investigate them. The main reason these studies get shelved is the gun lobby, the gun lobby can do this because of citizens united, citizens united can do this because business interests own the conservative party. There really is no liberal party, in name perhaps but they both have the same owners for the most part..

Ok, as I said I haven't bought anything in a great many years so effectively I have already done this. No one is lobbying politicians to do nothing other than the gun industry and they can do that due to "Citizens United" a law all the conservatives worship... They can cut any attempt to regulate guns to shreds before it is even considered. This is yet another flaw, I cannot get behind restricting hunting, I would be lying if I said I could. I may not hunt but keeping others from doing so is simply not the way the US has ever worked. Assault weapons are not part of the hunting culture and neither are hand guns... State rights are limited in this area, I'm not sure by how much but the same interests that control the federal gov also control state governments.

From guns sales of course but to really impact their bottom line would take far more people than are willing. Most of the people who are now calling for gun control either already have a gun or don't want a gun, people who pursue guns are not going to stop unless someone shoots them. Just like the boy who did the shooting in Florida, hurting the gun industry would not have affected him or his crime. Gun control might have.. BTW, I ask again, what could the gun industry do to correct the problem? It's like asking criminals not to rob anyone until this gun control thing is sorted out. Not going to happen, their own self interests will dictate their actions... I would think the vast majority of gun owners are similar to me, they have a gun a couple boxes of ammo and that is the extent of their gun purchases. I haven't spent a dime even on ammo for quite some time. I never fire them, they are not toys, they are tools, since i don't hunt anymore buying more guns or ammo makes no sense... Welll unless you arming for the zombie apocalypse..

They might but they have so much money to spend on buying politicians and to run ads that try to trigger people emotions I doubt very seriously you could get enough people to do it to affect their bottom line significantly. I really think enforcing laws we already have and closing the loop holes to those laws in the best way to go right now. Thinks like banning gun shows, banning sales by private individuals, real gun control in the form of licenses and training to get those licenses. The way we do now has failed, when a person can walk in and buy a gun with nothing but money and a smile we have a problem. BTW what exactly do you think the firearm industry is going to do to correct the problem?

Dude, do you know your history? I do, but that is not part of this thread. I was just trying to get you to see that insulting the US even if it was subtle is not what we are talking about. Whether or not the US takes in emigrants or should know better or whatever has nothing to do with gun control. Now let's get back on track, if you want to rehash old times start another thread.. For an appreciable impact on the industry we would have to pass laws supporting the population instead of the industry. Rosa Parks didn't do what she did in a vacuum, it wasn't even the first time she did a personal protest. It was trigger that brought out lots of people but in the end the government had to pass laws. I think i already do a pretty good job of not buying anything from the gun industry and I do not plan to start. Engaging with people in a reasonable way and supporting others who do is the best I can do.

Yes and no one that one, while the low population is the key the lower population allows for an environment much like the good ol' days . The crowding into small spaces of lots of people contribute at least in a small way...

That is interesting, I am Cherokee, our people were destroyed by the US government but that has no place in this discussion..

You do make a point but trying to get 350 million people to do something is not productive especially when those people have been brainwashed by the people in control. You have to stop the flow of bribes before you can get a grip on the rest of the problem...

No, I am showing how OT is it to criticize something about someone that has nothing to do with the OP. As an aside I would suggest you do a bit more studying about North American Native peoples before you go down that road.. Citizens United has a big role in this problem as well...

Oh yeah, then you won't mind me asking why your countries gun laws are so good when the white majority destroyed the native population using those guns... Clean your own house before you tell me mine is dirty..

You are really clueless aren't you... If one person urinates in the ocean it's nothing but if an entire country pumps their sewage in it can and has done huge amounts of damage. When you attack a problem you do not start with the smallest things, those things are usually out of your control and stopping them would be meaningless. You go for the biggest problem. Me stopping my purchases of ammo will have no effect, and yes that is the extent of my support for the gun lobby. I cannot and would not buy large numbers of guns or ammo. I have no need of them and no reason to buy them...

Ten oz, if you were in the ocean would you not urinate because it would pollute? My guns purchases are miniscule, if everyone like me or Zapatos refused to buy the gun industry wouldn't notice...

And as I and others have said that is a reasonable direction...

You're on! The reason I do not know what country you are from is because it's not because I haven't read what you posted but anyone who uses the tactics you do are not honest and where you are from and it's superiority or lack thereof doesn't matter in this discussion anymore than the morals of the US in things outside gun control have any place here...

Ranger, I don't know who you are or where you are from but this thread is not about the moral behavior of one country over another. Please tell me where you live and I'll se if I can come up with some derogatory insinuations for you that have nothing to do with the problem...

It would not be the problem but I know people who buy up things like assault rifles speculating they will be more valuable in the future. These people then sell their guns in the private market where there is no no checks at all. Think of it this way, back in the 80s and 90s there was a problem with motorcycles, teen aged boys were buying these rocket ships and dying on the way home. They were very expensive and should have stopped this but young boys can make money and can get enough to pay cash for $10,000 motorcycle. It was crazy but it resulted in a special drivers license for motorcyclists so someone who had no training couldn't buy one of these widow makers..

Again, organic compounds more delicate than the ones we use, read that more unstable, would be more stable at low temps and possible react at the same speeds the ones we use do at higher temps. Let's not forget life much hotter as well. Sulfuric acid could be used on worlds much hotter than ours with chemicals that are too stable to be useful at our temps... Such a life form might look at the chemicals we use and say the same thing about us as we do about the colder ones..