Moontanman

My ancestors put their dead on tall platforms just for that reason...

Personally I think burying people in caskets made of concrete separates them from the circle of life. I want to be buried bare and a tree planted on top of me.

You need to show it because it's part of the circulatory/lung system. And your question is a strawman Never assume everyone understands anything and the gas contain in swim bladder is not oxygen. Air is not oxygen, it is a mixture of gases. I don't know what you are on about here, please elaborate It evolved like that, is that a problem for some reason? Evolution doesn't make things perfect, it makes things just good enough. Evolution works by adapting one thing to do another job. It doesn't create new things unrelated to every thing else. I can speculate that when the swim bladder started to become important larger arteries to the swim bladder became a positive trait. Blood vessels that pusate would be another step forward in fitness. As you can see in the diagram a fishes heart is not much more than pulsating blood vessels. It's not a long stretch to see that a pulsating blood vessel to the swim bladder would be a positive trait.

Ahh, so your real agenda rears it's ugly head. No one thinks that lungs simply appeared ex nihilo, lungs developed from the gut which developed into a swim bladder because fish would swallow air for buoyancy, this developed in the ability to extract oxygen from this air. This gut/swim bladder connection survives to this day in many fishes. I have no idea why the lungfish developed that way but you cannot simply ignore where the air comes from. Your diagram does this and as such is incomplete. The binary system you tout is an artifact of your own misunderstanding...

I'm not going to post any diagrams, you are erecting a strawman, google is your friend... but stay away from AIG and all the other creationist sites... You talk as if you assume the lung just appeared. Originally, as an many modern fish there was just a gut. This "stomach" was already heavily vascularized so as to make absorption of nutrients more efficient that fish who did not have "type" the stomach evolved because some fish who lived oxygen poor water started gulping air at the surface. This can been seen in modern fish trapped in a body of water with low oxygen levels. The connection to the gut disappeared in fish that didn't live in anoxic water. Fish that did live in anoxic water retained that trait because it allowed them to live in areas where they didn't have to compete with other fish. more vascularization allowed them even more of an advantage. Your diagram omits that fact that the bladder had to have a connection to the gut for it to obtain air. Gulping air at the surface into a gut and then transferring bladder wasn't as efficient as drawing air directly into the bladder and evolutionary pressure favored those animals in which the opening the bladder/lung was closer to the head. Over thousands if not millions of generations the opening to the bladder became a separate tube that muscles could draw air in separately from the gut. Some totally unrelated fishes are in the various stages of this process while some land vertebrates when the other way and lost lungs completely. Opting for breathing through their skins, some actually breath through their anus...

The swim bladder arose from the gut in fishes, it gave rise to lungs in fishes, the lungs of higher vertebrates is not a seperate evolution but evolved from the gut/swim bladder in fishes. You cannot ask how the circulatory system/respiratory evolved without taking into account the gut to swim bladder to primitive lungs. Citation please. You are incorrect, the scientific consensus says these things did evolve in small stages, if you claim otherwise a citation is required... This is a strawman argument, no one would say random mutations resulted in these changes apart from another factor. The other factor is natural selection and every individual is a transitional species. yes millions of generations and each is transitional to the next.

Thanks guys.

We constantly see things like atomic nuclei and protons being smashed against each other from opposite directions to see what results but what happens if two electrons are smashed together at near light speed?

Endy is correct, you are leaving out the gut and the stages in between. You ask how a modern animal is connected with ancestors from around a quarter billion years ago and expect it be explained in one step. As for how many stages there were, as many as there are generations of fish between now and the last common ancestor of that fish and all other fishes... No one is saying you have no right to discuss this but it has to be discussed accurately, not some idealised or simplified version. And BTW, there are fishes alive today that demonstrate the various gross stages between a gut only fish and a lung only fish. Arapaima are a good example, they will drown if held under water but they do have functioning gills, as do Bowfin, Bichirs, some Catfish and so on. Some fish can walk on land but have no lungs, some fish can walk on land and don't even have a swim bladder. Some fish walk around on perfectly functional legs and can't go on land and in fact live at great depths in the ocean. It's really a very complex subject...

Ultimately everything evolved from single celled ancestor, I would have to say it did indeed evolve from a single circulatory system at some point. I don't see how that can be disputed... But I think you are making too much of the diagram or maybe too little. You seem to think that the "lung" is separate from tissue in some manor but all that would be required is increased blood flow to the swim bladder. That would seem to favor, at some point, a more differentiated blood system to the swim bladder/lung. The state that is being skipped in the diagram is the transition from a swim bladder connected to the gut to a vascularised swim bladder/gut to a partitioned swim bladder and gut to a swim bladder/lung to increased blood flow via pulsating blood vessels to the swim bladder/gut... Lots more steps no doubt I've left out...

Well first of all if it wasn't an appeal to authority I read it that way and I apologise. How ever assuming that a living species is anything but vaguely relative to today's organisms needs some citation. I offer you modern amphibians, many think they are ancestral to modern reptiles but they branched off well before reptiles and are not ancestral to them so using them as a model to explain adaptations in modern animals is not a good idea. Lungfishes are unique and may or may not have branched off well before the evolution of modern animals. In fact they very may have evolved after modern circulatory systems evolved... I know some fish able to breath air are recent as are some fish that walk on a solid surface. I wouldn't claim they are ancestral to modern land animals...

I was thinking along the lines of aquarium building but that is far and away too much to spend..

Thanks Endy, I wonder how it's price stacks up against glass and plexiglass?

Transparent in this context means you could make windows and clearly see with your eyes what is going on outside the window..

You do understand that what Darwin said is meaningless in of itself... right? Hydrostatic swim bladders evolved into swim bladders that were used to breathe air. It's quite possible the lungfish is not in the evolutionary lineage that includes animals with lungs. I see no reason to assume this, can you tell us why you would assume this?

Europa is fascinating to me because it's possible it has oxygen beneath the ice (Thunderbird my friend, I wish I could concede that argument) This might allow complex life but I haven't seen any data on Enceladus as far as oxygen but bacteria for sure! Some would even say that Pluto might have deep ice locked oceans. Then there is Ceres! Thomas Gold, in his book "The Deep Hot Biosphere" postulated that life is a natural development of planetary formation and at some point nearly all planets have life before conditions change and extinguish that life. http://www.pnas.org/content/89/13/6045.abstract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold

Oh well, my dream of a tough but transparent knife is out the window I guess... Thanks guys...

Is a transparent metal possible?

https://phys.org/news/2017-12-scientists-gut-bacteria-bees-antibiotic-resistant.html Gut bacteria in bees could harbor clues to problems with the gut bacteria of Humans and other animals.

Fungi are being credited with allowing or at least supporting the rise of plants on land. These giant fungi were the first large land organisms known.

Is this something new or just more smoke and mirrors? http://abcnews.go.com/US/navy-pilot-recalls-encounter-ufo-unlike/story?id=51856514

I am sorry, I didn't realise!

So it was basically no different than any of the other "disclosures" of the years? Show there is a "they" and we can speculate on what they do..

No, his detection of alien signals from Mars are indisputable.. Are you seriously going to keep making assertions you cannot back up with mainstream science...?

I've been hearing that since I was a teenager Mike, lets wait until we see what they are going to disclose...