Moontanman

So you use a comedian as a source?

Holy books cannot be proof of anything, they are the claims that require proof.. Yes, let's do that, but you need to start your own thread this one is not about that...

What would your point be? This video is nothing but baseless assertions...

If it's a simulation, as with god, who ever did it is an asshole..

To me you are assigning meaning where none really exists. As I said before you could roll dice and get the same results but in a much more complex way. Not to mention this "divining" being a really arbitrary thing. I have some experience with this. I was raised to think I was a water witch, I used to forked willow branch to find water many times. I've never been really sure since adulthood how that really worked. I think that finding water is much easier than people think and most of the time when you drill down in certain areas you will find water. Having said that on at least two occasions I found water after the driller had bored several dry holes. It had to be coincidence but at the time it was an enormous feeling of power. I'll quote AronRa and say, "if you can't show it you don't know it" ... The whole idea of hierarchy is really tough to wrap my mind around. You say this: And yet you have no working definition of how you equate intelligence. Technology? A flawed yardstick for sure IMHO. Brain size? We have to go back to a sperm whale having a complex brain as big as a bushel basket. And elephants having a brain bigger than a basketball and elephants display complex behaviors we can identify with. Angels? This smells very strongly of the supernatural something you have to show the existence of before you can go there. As I have said before technology doesn't immediately bring you superbeing status and things like the speed of light limit your ability to communicate over distances. I am trying Mike but I just can't quite reach you on this...

Ok, I'll take that back, let me say this. Your rigor in judging evidence lacks any possible way to falsify what you assert or to convey that information to others in a way that can be experienced by them. In other works you are just casting a die and deciding the outcome on chance...

Perhaps you should, I have no idea how to approach this, I simply do not have those feelies you are talking about. Not even when I was doing my best to believe...

Ok, how do you know this is happening? I have to agree with Area54, unless you can give us some sort of measure/ template for what you mean by hierarchy I don't see how we can really begin to figure this out..

So... You do realise that if you dived the world un into three areas something is bound to happen in one of the three... right?

So your left hand got goose bumps or something?

And how clear was that indication Mike?

Yes Mike, that would be it..

How do you ask these questions and what answer did you get to that last one?

I don't even agree there is a hierarchy muchless that humans are at the top on Earth. Even granted a hierarchy, what criteria are you using to assert humans are the top of a hierarchy? And this was what exactly? The only problem I have with religion is there is zero evidence for it, no reason whatsoever to assume anything supernatural. Given actual evidence I'd believe in a heartbeat. I might not worship depending on the character of whatever this supernatural whatever was... Seriously Mike, do you not require evidence before you begin to assume something is true? Or even possible? It's quite possible that we humans are the only or maybe just the first in our galaxy or even generally close area to be able to understand much less ask the question. And your idea of a hierarchy requires a superbeing if i understand you correctly. A super being, is if not improbable, certainly requires much more evidence than thinking humans are somewhere on a rung of a ladder so it is must be probable there are rungs above us. Please define hierarchy, I am not kidding, what do you mean by hierarchy? I honestly do not see anything on this planet resembling a hierarchy. Can we are least settle on a definition? If i understand hierarchy it means something superior or inferior to whatever is below or above. You mentioned off worlder, read alien, let's say a K2 level civilization, one of them crash lands on our planet, his technology is destroyed. Would he still be superior to us? If you could take one of us and send us back to 300,000 years ago with out our technology would we be superior to the neanderthals living at the time? Not to them I bet, they would see us as weak and inconsequential, and they had bigger brains than us and some think individually were superior to us in every way important at the time. Think of it, drop you back 300,000 years "naked and afriad" (the TV show offends me, sorry) but would you be able to feed yourself, make stone tools, bring down a mammoth, even start a fire? I think technology and civilization doesn't necessarily mean superior...

I do not see a hierarchy in that photo, the horses are quite a bit more powerful that the human in many ways. A bear could run up and kill all of them and then eat the man. A shark could kill and eat them all as could an orca. Where is the hierarchy?

My fish have absolute knowledge of my existence, they see me, come to be for food and some of them even allow me to pet them. Show me something like that a higher being...

Then we are talking about super beings... A concept that i would require considerable evidence for, before I could consider it...

I am only suspicious of people who claim to know there is an afterlife...

It always looked more dangerous to non riders than riders...

But I do not refuse to accept higher life forms exist. To be honest I am still not sure what you mean by higher. I am always open to evidence but to assert something with no evidence is a place i cannot go... In the video I posted they talk about levels of civilization, K1, K2, K3, and possibly K4. We are less than a K1, K1 controls the entire energy falling on their planet, K2 controls the entire energy output of a star, a K2 would be very god like in their massed capabilities but individually they might not even be as smart as the average human. A K3 would be indistinguishable from a god but as before that doesn't speak to the abilities of individuals. A K4 would be god by any definition of the word but the individuals could still be more or less human. True super beings are difficult to define in any realistic way, in Star Trek they introduce us to the "Borg" a hive mind composed of trillions of individuals occupying thousands of planets but a K2 civilization could sweep them away like dust in a hurricane. A K3 could wield the entire energy of a galaxy, K4 would control the entire universe. What would a super being be? Q? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek)

And people used to think I was crazy!

In the face of lack of evidence the null hypothesis is the conclusion. Lots of things might be possible, but remain improbable at best. You seem to be asserting that not believing something is true cuts you off from the possibility. Not true, not believing is not the same as saying it's not possible.

Clouds?

I see no reason why the Dalai Lama would know anymore than anyone else about something we have no evidence for. Like asking Hawking why aliens are green. I honestly have no need for anything higher than me, in fact I'm not sure I understand what "Higher than me" even means. I have grave doubts about the concept of super beings even being possible much less probable. Possibly a AI might qualify but if the size and computing power is what we are talking about a sperm whale's brain is the size of a bushel basket, very complex, thought to be capable of very complex tasks, does that qualify as a higher life form or are we talking technology? As for surfing the universe, I have surfed, lots of fun but nothing compared to riding a super bike naked down a deserted road at more than 130 mph but I guess that's a personal thing... I still think we lack a definition of higher... Is this close to what we are talking about?

I am really trying to feel you Mike, but I don't get the need you seem to have for hierarchies, it seems unnatural, contrived. Now having said that SURFING THE UNIVERSE sounds like a good time, exactly what was he doing?