Moontanman

If you take the bits that sound sciency you should also have to explain the bits that are absolute horse feathers. Like the sun setting in a puddle of water, muhammad splitting the moon or riding a flying horse into heaven. There are more but those would seem to be more than enough to show just how untenable the idea of a holy book sounding sciency really is.

I've heard this argument used by creationists (not you) but the idea of doubling population is flawed. In fact it is thought the overall population growth was quite flat for a very long time other than groups that moved out into uninhabited areas which then were quite common for human populations. There are some hints that civilizations came and went several times before populations grew to the point where there was numbers settled in the same place. I always have wondered if "savages" moving in from wild areas might not have overran small villages or settlements clustered around easily gathered resources. I imagine that such a touch and go method would have prevented seriously large cities for quite some time. You can see a similar process in later populations even when the sedentary populations were arranged in powerful city states. Outsiders would sweep in and take over, often by what was termed barbarians. Sea peoples (circa 1200 to 900 BCE) have been hypothesized to be responsible for an overall decline in civilizations and have held my interest for some time. It would appear the "Sea Peoples" would sweep in on small coastal cities and or islands in the mediterranean area. These invaders evidently disrupted an over all developing civilization at the time and knocked back the advance of organised sedentary peoples significantly.

This interpretation suffers from the fact that other forms of writing or messaging or keeping track of these things would be unlikely to survive. Symbols on hide or reeds or notches on sticks would be unlikely to survive the ravages of time. But the concepts you are talking about could have been around for tens of thousands of years and since trade is demonstrable back to at least 50,000 years I would be careful asserting that this stuff only started 5,000 years ago due to what is effectively sample bias...

For your idea to hold water you would have to show a religious assertion that changed science, this has not happened. All of these so called science facts described by religion are ad hoc after the fact interpretations. It's easy to try and make scripture fit science, I often refer to the idea that the bible confirms the notions of the ancient astronaut crowd. I think there is a passage in ezekiel that they have interpreted to mean an alien spacecraft. Could it be so? Sure, but it's highly improbable and to suggest it is fact is dishonest..

The mechanism for evolution could change or be updated but the process is factual...

After googling "Tetryonics" it appears to be pseudoscience bullshit with no basis in reality...

Well wikipedia isn't exactly gospel, but it is a good starting point, my point would be that there seems to be some disagreement on what makes a civilization. You seem to think it involves writing, some would seem to say it's more of a group of people who have a working society. I am a bit torn between them. Neither would seem to be 100% on point.

It would seem there is a difference of opinion here. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/indigenous-australians-most-ancient-civilisation-on-earth-dna-study-confirms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

I was abiker most of my life, so I do connect with you there. What bothers me is the idea that all civilization started in the middle east, this is demonstrably not true. The Aztecs, Mayans, and other western hemisphere civilizations arose independently from the middle east as did China and possibly India. Writing does indeed seem to be the key but strange symbols found all over the world that seem to be connected indicates there was some symbolism going on far back in the past. Drawings in cliffs and in caves in the western hemisphere date back way before the middle east and are a type of writing. The symbolism was more visual than symbolic but it occurred even before the asians migrated to the americas. In fact these first americans are thought to have come over in boats as part of the polynesian, australian aborigines who settled the pacific island chains well before 6,000 years ago. Some authors put this as far back as 75,000 years ago. They built boats, large canoes really, that they used to colonise the entire pacific basin when even the chinese were still wondering how to keep cave lions out. These waves of peoples, at least I think, were probably connected by very thin trails as one civilization fell some of the people transferred their knowledge to other areas. I'm not sure how continuous this was but we have evidence that the chinese traded with australian aborigines before the middle east was "civilized" well let's say stacking rocks instead...

No, I am not talking about monkeys in caves, that is insulting to humans. Do you think The first north americans were monkeys living in caves? Just because their cities were made of wood and not stone doesn't mean they didn't exist. Humans with a reasonable amount of technology spread around the world at least 50,000 years ago. There is some evidence coming to light that humans might have been in NA way before 50,000 years ago. These people were not monkeys living in caves, they were just as human as you, they were travelers at times, at other times they built structures that did not last due not being made of stone and bricks. Are you going to say that only people who worked with stone and bricks were people and rest were monkeys living in caves? There are stone structures found on the ocean bottom off the cost of India that date back far more than 6,000 years. Do you claim these guys were monkeys living in caves? I am not willing to say these humans were not civilized, I see no reason to assume they didn't have writing methods that simply did not survive due to the materials they were recorded on and the rot of tropical climates. The civilization of my own ancestors was wiped out before it could be documented by disease brought accidentally by the first europeans. Not all native americans were monkey people living in caves, In fact there was a diverse and elevated civilization here way before the spanish arrived and it wasn't brought here from the middle east.

No, not everyone, those of us who understand deep time know the humans have been around for at least 150,000 years, possibly much longer. Ape men in caves.. really? Humans were building houses and huts and even villages much much earlier than 6 thousand years ago. Humans spread over the planet at least 50,000 years ago, caves were never a big part of human existence. Caves are very limited, stone age humans built megalithic structures and before that houses and villages out of would bones and hides. But more importantly civilization has been traced back to 10,000 BCE some suggest it sprang up and fell much earlier but that is not much more than speculation at this point. Contact with Angels is something someone has claimed with no evidence what so ever. To suggest humans couldn't have developed civilization without help "from above" is insulting to our ancestors and totally unsupported... Why would you suggest such a thing?

I don't understand what you are asserting, can you explain?

Can anyone vouch for any religious imagery? I cannot take any religious imagery or tenets or any other supernatural idea until some evidence it exists is given.

Religions also speak of multiarmed elephant people...

Just as soon as we can nibble on their toes I will consider it...

I see, somehow vegans don't exactly strike me as a homogenous group..

Hmm, can you define "bigoted" ?

Losing my lower jaw to a bone infection pretty much stopped my eating of most junk food. Not really recommended but I do understand the cravings, I used to eat lots of spicy chips...

Honestly I thought it was, sorry...

Evidently not to some people..

So now you are going to tell me how to raise children... riiiight...

The whole growing meat thing is interesting, I think we'll be able to do that on an industrial scale sooner than we might think. Crisper is the key! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat You are welcome to eat all the dirt you want, I'm betting that will difficult to introduce to the general population. If you want to be a vegan, knock yourself out but to suggest everyone should be will take quite a bit more than the spiritual hand waving and bogus citations you have given so far. Personally guys, I like vegetables quite a bit, not such a big fan of grains. But if the apocalypse comes all bets are off and hunger can cause you to do some weird things.. watch your back..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality

When my youngest son was about 2 we went to the NC zoo and they had a toddler gorilla and he interacted with my son through the glass. I would give anything to have had than recorded...