Moontanman

My specialty! Not fats, just sweets, for some reason unsweetened tea is awful to me but sweet coffee is awful as well! I like iced coffee and iced tea but only coffee unsweetened! My own personal diet for type 2 diabetes includes fats, protein, and fiber but excludes as much carbs as possible. No seed oils, the only vegetable oils I use are olive and coconut oils. I mostly cook with lard and or beef tallow and all my blood parameters have gone back to nominal! My doc is amazed and I feel much better after losing 50 lbs! YES! I actually tried Earl Grey Tea due to Captain Picard! I loved the taste, I even preferred it in iced tea! Iced sweet tea is the house wine of the south! I do miss it, along with bread, pasta, potatoes, and rice...😭

I've tried this with coffee but never tea... I prefer my Earl Grey hot with a pinch of butter and a teaspoon of honey!

What does a giant sandwich have to do with the bigbang? Actually the sandwich was the first return from google and the pions that mesotron originally referred to are down the list quite a bit but even then I can't find any references to anything having to do with the bigbang.

Sounds like they just need to buy a 22 short revolver, double tap to the back of the head Mafia style is quick, easy, cheap, and as painless as dying could be.

I'm not sure I understand the why of this, is the quickness of death, lack of pain, or the cost most important?

I misquoted you, sorry about that, the objects were not in Earth orbit but as you say still interesting.

I feel like I have stolen the thunder from your post. I think this particular route of inquiry has real world importance. The July 1952 Washington DC "Merry Go Round" was IMHO one of the most important sightings ever reported not to mention one of the most widely misrepresented sightings ever. The US Air Force totally screwed the pooch on their ridiculous explanation of "false radar returns due to temperature inversion". The desperation of the Air Force to explain away at any cost the "UFO Phenomena" is on open display here and the idea of unknown objects being photographed in orbit around he Earth at the very time this "sighting" occurred is potentially earth shattering!

I watched some of Eureka when it first came out but I lost interest as it progressed. I honestly don't remember a time travel component in the show but I didn't watch very many episodes. I might give it another go!

A list of my fav time travel shows and the premise of the shows time traveling. Outlander - Straight up magic, no technology, and the protagonists alternate between trying to change history and trying to lie low. Timeless- Straight up technology with the intent to change or repair the past time line. Travelers- Technology with the intent of changing the past through major acts of intervention Terra Nova- Technology with the intent of escaping the present by moving to the extreme past. Primeval- Natural occurrences used to time travel and trying to prevent changes to the past and present. Feel free to list your own favs in the poll and I'd like to discuss the differences in the premises of he shows and how well they do in consistency even if the premise is fatally flawed. I'll start out with my fav time travel show which is Travelers, the show is reasonably internally consistent, the main premise is that no material objects can be sent through time only information. Nothing can be sent through time without a T.E.L.L. Time Elevation Longitude and Latitude of the person it is sent to. The main reason I liked the show was... I hate to ruin the show for anyone but while the time travel is portrayed as almost omnipotent technology ultimately they fail to make a difference in the future. The idea they fail is what ultimately makes the show so powerful. Anyone else want to step up and explain their fav time travel show feel free to do so!

You guys are correct, I am wrong, I again concede the topic cannot be discussed scientifically with the data we currently have. I will go back to ignoring this topic due to lack of data.

This is the absolute epitome of disrespect and often the main way disrespect is spread. Ignore any points that are valid and concentrate on trivial details that can be used to denigrate more important aspects of any argument.

Really? The lemon writing is all you got from this?

I happen to be one of them although my contribution has always been field work supervised by a real scientist. Do not pretend that UFO researcher gets the same respect as an amature astronomer or a bird watcher. If I were to send in a a video or picture of an Ivory Billed Woodpecker at least some ornithologists would beat a path to my door to examine my film or pic but let me get a picture of a UFO and no matter how good the picture is or the data surrounding it, in fact I think to could be said the better the picture the more likely it will be labeled too good to be true and therefore a hoax. Scientists would avoid me like the plague and if I made too big a stink I'd be labeled a crank or crack pot. Even a well respected scientist is likely to get the crackpot treatment... see Avi Lobe for an example. Science or scientists have been told that alien life visiting us is not possible for so long and the military has reinforced this idea via ridicule and with holding funding that no one can seriously undertake any investigation due to quite a bit more than lack of data. The data the military gathers is all we have and the culture of secrecy that runs the military makes and keeps things secrete just for the sake of secrecy. There are secrets being kept from WW1 that little kids know about but the US military keeps them "top" secret. The one most often talked about is the secret writing via lemon juice and a candle. Data collected by the military on UFOs back in the 40s, 50s and 60s is still classified top secret! How could protecting military secrets be a justified reason to keep those things secret? Report a UFO and you immediately become a known charlatan. Even if the military has a real problem with any adversary finding out how they obtained the data there should be no reason why scientists, under conditions of secrecy, couldn't be allowed access to the data. The results could be published without compromising the details of how the data was obtained. If a well respected group of scientists came forward to say they have been shown the results of the data and those results do not suggest anything other than mundane sources for UAPs I'd accept it. I know many wouldn't but many on both sides of this issue would refuse to consider any data that disagreed with their forgone conclusion. All I know for sure is that far too many "sightings" are completely unexplained often despite an embarrassing wealth of data. If UAPs represent actual extraterrestrial space or aircraft then we are at a considerable disadvantage, any and all data we receive is controlled first by the aliens then that is filtered through a military obsessed with secrecy, then that is filtered through the culture of disrespect fostered by the gov, military, science, and then by society in general. This issue is going to be a thorn in the side of society until the culture of secrecy for the sake of secrecy is stopped. Secrecy can become malignant when it becomes too powerful, imagine how progress is can be retarded by unnecessary secrecy, so much of this crazy story has a life of its own and is becoming disruptive to our society. How long before the disruption harms our society? I appreciate that but the general attitude in all of these UFO threads has been a lack of respect, general dismissal of the topic and any evidence out of hand. No picture is good enough to even be considered, unless of course it's a really good picture then it's obviously has to be a hoax. This is not an accusation of you personally! I think Hynek's legacy was demeaned badly and unfairly mostly because he decided to point out the deceptions of the military. In this case i highly suspect the issue is being used to obfuscate the current government issues we are currently having. I rather liked 99!

Impossible, I am not a scientist and any data I were to acquire would be useless because it wasn't gathered under controlled conditions. That shouldn't apply to congress in a secret meeting but more importantly why has the military suppressed the data they have from scientists even the ones they had working for them? Again as has been discussed in other threads none of the data we have was obtained under controlled conditions so it cannot be trusted. I understand this and have accepted the fact that data collected by me would not be considered admissible as data. I thought we had already established that no data has been collected by anyone qualified by science. Actual data has been collected, I have no control over that data being accepted in science. In fact as I have said, under current conditions the only way we can be sure that aliens are here is if they tell us they are here, everything else is hearsay.

I am aware of these incidents as well, I know I have ruined my reputation on this issue and I have come to the conclusion that current gov investigations are more along the lines of political obfuscation than any real effort to reveal hidden data. I'll risk further humiliation and say incidents like this and others have been suppressed (or at least any real investigation has been suppressed) by the gov for reasons unknown. Lots of really weird explanations have been proposed to explain what if anything is really going on and IMHO "science" is being manipulated by the military to hide, at the very least, their own incompetence in figuring out what is going on. No I cannot provide citations to prove my point but the overall pattern IMHO is one of deception by the government. Other governments have come forward and admitted that something extraordinary is going on even to the point of suggesting aliens as the explanation. Of course these smaller countries cannot be correct because they do not agree with the US Military. I think it's telling that the military cannot figure out how to give the data they have collected to anyone else, they even have problems giving the information to congress... in secret! That simply doesn't make sense, our own governments to keep these things secret from the very people who, at least in theory, actually run the government. The fact that the military actually cannot give a straight answer to their own government is telling but the need to ridicule and suppress any effort to by real scientists to try and study what little data is available is just as telling as the military making sure even the scientists they hired to debunk the data did not gain access to he entire story. I know that their main investigative scientist, J Allen Hynek quit working for them because he found they were hiding data from him and refusing to allow him to interview pilots hat had witnessed UFOs that had especially good data sets. Gun camera footage, radar traces, and eyewitness testimony that directly contradicted the military's stance that UFOs were nothing but mistakes by witnesses. Now there are several weird sightings currently being looked at and I am not going to discuss them because I honestly think there is a major connection between our current political kaos and the so called UAP investigation by congress. When real scientists are being brought in and shown the all data the military has I'll try to believe a real investigation is going on. lack of access to the data possibly? No I want the military to stop supressing the data they have and provide it to real scientists, hell they cannot even give it to the congress critters who supposedly run the country.

Citation please.

If I remember my history of paganism correctly the word pagan originally meant something along the lines of "backward", "uneducated" or "country bumpkin". Navy? Can you elaborate?

You've convinced me, a thought experiment has to be based in reality as we understand it or it's meaningless, I apologize to everyone for wasting their time.

I am not proposing that time travel is possible. Interesting concepts but I see them as being in no way any more or less rational that any other time travel concepts and no more or less arbitrary than any others I have read about. Ok then, I still say my thought experiment is valid and that my assertion is valid as well. Boiled down to its most basic. The only person who can know the timeline has changed is the time traveler. Everyone else is carried along in the time stream and the original time stream ceases to exist. Of course this is fictional, the very premise is fictional, but fictional premises can be used to figure out logical outcomes in even fictional scenarios. the idea of course opens up a huge can of worms but they are fictional worms and only have meaning in the context of the fictional thought experiment.