Moontanman

jduff, if you think there is life after death it's up to you to provide positive evidence of this life after death, it's not our job to prove there is no life after death.. Anything that can be asserted with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence jduff...

I don't think I've ever had anyone work that hard to make my point... Animals do all sorts of things that do not contribute to their survival, they play, yes even as adults, all those things you claim are unique to humans are just more complex analogs of the human behaviors you cite. Lets break it down dude... Animals make sleeping nests, they are often quite complex and comfortable and the animals go to great lengths to make sure they are comfortable sometimes making a new large comfortable nest every day...They can survive with out the nest but they do it anyway... If you give this some thought you'll see how this confirms what i am saying, these humans behaviors can be seen in animals but just not on as complex a level as humans, the star bucks may not be required for for the survival of humanity but individuals to indeed work there to make money to live and coffee is a drug. The businesses you cite are just complex versions of how animals survive. T hank you again for making my point. Animals have been documented using drugs many times, we just do it in a more complex manner... Again thank you, if locusts were as widespread as humans nothing green would be left on the face of the earth. Animals do all those things and in spades they just don't use technology to help themselves do it this of course assumes a beaver building a damn that drastically changes the local environment isn't technology. And BTW the things human do are just as natural as red tides and beaver damns, humans are not apart from nature... And Koko, yes Koko the talking gorilla, she communicates quite accurately, she uses sign language and communicates quite complex things as well as holding conversations so yes we do know what she is saying and she makes up her own words to describe novel situations or ideas, in fact she makes up swear words so in the immortal words of Koko "Shit on you" an animal that can decide to make up insults blows the idea of simply just parroting what she has been taught out of the water, in fact parrots do not always just parrot what they are taught... Animals take slaves, grow domesticated plants for food, keep livestock, build huge cities, and I am just talking about ants, the list goes on and on... Birds collect shiny objects to impress their mates... seriously they really do... and the guy who works at star bucks is just doing what every other animal does, seeking food and shelter the best way he can, it's not different from what animals do to survive it's just more complex and hidden under many layers of complexity. The guy who works for star bucks is just the modern equivalent of a hunter gatherer... WWLabRat, I think we have skidded way off topic, I suggest you start another thread if you want to continue down this road...

The default position is always something that has no evidence doesn't exist, woo words that really mean nothing add nothing to your position. Again the default position is nothing after death not something after death, we have every reason to think that there is nothing after death because there is no evidence of something after death, this is based on reality not hopes and wishes and woo words...

This lifts my skirt just a little bit...

None of those apply, animals do all of them in some form or other, we might do it in a much more complex way but they do it as well. The money thing is the least obvious but animals do indeed exchange goods for services, ie animals that bring a kill to impress the female, birds and mammals do this, even spiders. Animals go out on organized hunts, that is the same as earning a living, you hunt or starve, pack hunting means everyone eats whether or not you actually down the prey... Animals will indeed get intoxicated, elephants are known as mean drunks and intentionally consume fermented fruit for shits and giggles, even invading breweries to get the beer... Squirrels will eat 'shrooms and go to a nest to sleep it off, can you imagine the psychedelic dreams of a squirrel? Nonhuman animals even pass down technology, apes teach the younger generation how to make simple tools, as do Crows... Many animals spoil their environment, locusts come to mind as well as fire ants, red tides, where I live schools of menhaden become so thick they use up all the oxygen and have massive kills for no reason other they are too stupid to spread out a little bit. No intelligence has no strangle hold on any of those. You are not giving animals their due... You left out the one thing we do that animals do not do, animals do not store information to be passed down to the next generation, we build libraries, but it is also true that for much of mans existence nether did we... And for reference... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3q6Cid1po

You are missing my point, none of them have any empirical evidence what so ever, no religion is any more or less likely than the others but science provides useful information about reality, it can be tested and falsified, religion cannot just as invisible dragons cannot and asserting either one adds nothing to human knowledge...

More to the point you can't show any of them as "The Truth"...

Yes it is possible as I pointed out at least twice in this thread, the last time on post #295...

Mantis shrimp solves Rubiks cube...

No wait! You mean I am not a genius?

Give this one a whirl, I have no idea what it is, it was first shown on one of those old UFO shows from the late 90's, seems to not have a past, makes me very suspicious... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLX2AaL6eJo

I have had a "special experience" and I still see no evidence to base belief on... I am well aware of how the brain can fool you when close to death...

Damn I'm three months behind, I saw the previews the other day but it must have been for release on DVD...

Walkers are everywhere! I've put down 20 in the last 30 minutes, almost out of ammunition.... getting dark, looks bad... I can't wait to see WWZ !

Not really both are indeed equivalent, neither has any empirical evidence of it's existence..

You tube is crawling with videos like this, if someone really did come up with a real video of something extraordinary it would be just another video in the cesspool of you tube videos.. I have found only one you tube video i can't track down and so far no one else has either, it's supposed to be a crashing UFO but there is no record of what it really is at all...

One has claims written down in a book claimed to be written at the behest of a god..

I'm impressed, I didn't think it was real but I had googled it as well and couldn't find it...

real? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7T6vK3TEQE

I vaguely remember reading something about a hand held device to record your voice from that time period but i can't find any reference to it..

There are quite a few of these videos that seem to show someone talking on a cell phone, makes me think there might have been some object that was used then that appeared to be used like a cell phone, maybe a recording device or an ear cleaner... but this is someone holding an apple note book computer... Some of these have to be fake...

These films, there are quite a few, fascinate me, I doubt very highly that these are time travelers but they certainly look inexplicable on the surface. I'll post only one such video to see if anyone is interested in debunking this or at least speculating on what it really is.

I think I pretty much showed that scientists can be theists and still be effective scientists in post #199, Robert Bakker is a Bible thumping Pentecostal Preacher and is arguably the most famous paleontologist in the world. He is obviously able to separate out his theism from his science. He does this by interpreting Genesis somewhat differently than most but he obviously is a theist and a Pentecostal as well. So far no one has commented on this preferring to go with the god isn't real aspect which is off topic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_T._Bakker I know this is a surprise coming from me but I think this example pretty much blows the argument out of the water that theism somehow prevents a scientist from doing science... The reason this is possible is that theists interpret the bible the way they want instead of reading what it actually says...