Moontanman

Frank J. Tipler is not quite as well received as it would appear from the OP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_J._Tipler

My cactus blooms this morning...

Terror of the seven seas...

It seems to me the main advantage is that you don't reproduce... The main disadvantage is that you don't reproduce...

http://cakecrumbs.me/2013/08/01/spherical-concentric-layer-cake-tutorial/

So creationist, i guess you didn't read the link in the OP?

Which part?

every time it happens the odds are still 1...

Horse feathers, it's straight up god of the gaps... We are here, the odds of that happening is 100%

ok, I got it, I did read read it a bit too literally..

If someone who believes in fine tuning is an atheist then who does the fine tuning?

I know Trip isn't exactly a fundamentalist but I thought that was a reasonable question, in the light of how many biblical passages seem to ignore anything remotely equivalent to what we really consider moral or immoral... His answer seemed to say the morality of god is relative to the times it was written I can't see how that disconnect can be done reasonably and honestly and still claim god is the moral giver...

Brine shrimp eggs are pretty tough as well. They can survive decades vacuum packed and out in the deserts locked in salt can survive a very long time. Some desert soils can yield shrimp after a many decades long drought.

And yet it cannot demonstrate how or why you would expect a universe to be any different than the universe we live in now, just because you can speculate about how changing constants would effect the reality we live in doesn't mean there is or even if there can be other universes with different constants, IMHO it's more than a bit like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin... But in your speculations you are always driving the constant in a direction that equals bad, possibly changing the gravitational constant up a tiny bit would make sun like stars out of red dwarfs and allow for more habitable space around each star. In any scenario we can only judge what the effect would have on life as we know it. We can speculate anything, maybe a tiny jiggle of constants makes a universe with lots of boron instead of carbon and there we have boron life forms sitting around thinking of how perfectly tuned their universe is...

You keep making that claim but insisting your god is exempt from it but you give no reason why god is exempt... care to support why god is exempt? Yes... and super man by definition can fly...

So you are saying that what God thinks is wrong depends on what is normal in that day and time?

Or a non sentient Brobdingnagian creature that unknowingly creates universe from it's own natural processes... what you are suggesting is simply not any more supportable

you are incorrect, you have indeed done nothing but appeal to authority and then use that authority to posit something that does not necessarily follow...

So all you have is an appeal to authority and then you use that to support the concept of god? How do you know it is a god and not just some fluke of nature, the odds have no meaning in this context because the probability of us being here is one... And btw, your appeals to authority do not answer my questions, how do you know that? Is not a request for what other people hypothesize, it is a request for evidence, so far you have given none other than "it had to be that because I can't think of another way" I think your entire premise is fatally flawed because it assumes the answer is god and not just any god but your own god and it also assumes that further scientific progress cannot be made... there for god did it....

So you are talking about the christian god... Before you posit the christian god don't you think you should show some evidence of any gods? I am willing to grant the possibility universe had a beginning and a cause but how do you posit that cause as a god? Again, how do you get to a god from a cause? AND HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS THE CHRISTIAN CONCEPT OF GOD? How do you know the cause of the universe isn't some multidimensional brobdingnagian creature that ingests dark matter and excretes universes?

How do you know the universe is fine tuned? How do you know that our universe isn't the only way a universe can be? How do you know there aren't a infinite number of ways a universe can be and we are just lucky enough to exist in one that allows life? How do you know that different constants would not produce unique conditions that would allow things we cannot imagine?

For some reason i thought you were specifying the christian god, sorry, but none the less the idea of a first cause is not necessary see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpyrotic_universe.

Again, you are making an unsupportable assertion that life is impossible outside those supposedly narrow limits, we only know one type of life in our universe, their could be others even in our universe. It reminds me of how a silicon life from on Titan would look toward the sun and see earth as an inhospitable hell. We cannot say the universal constants are random either, it may very well be that our type of universe is all that can be... in fact it is all that there is... There is no way to say that life as we know it is the only possible life, in other universes there might be other ways we cannot even imagine to produce life in universes we wouldn't recognize at all. If things were different... things would be different...

Yes if things were different they would be different... what is your point? the bible is hardly a source of empirical evidence of anything No, you cannot say that! You cannot know that a set of rules exist that makes life easier might exist, you assume it has to be tuned for life as we know it, we cannot know if any other constants would produce it's own unique life forms...