Moontanman

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting either of these things would still be visible after 65,000,000 Years? What exactly do we know about cave men? Would you expect to see such things after 65,000,000 years? Hundreds of years vs 65,000,000 The instances you reference are of modern humans just a few thousand years old, much of human evolution is hidden because the first hominids lived in areas not conductive to fossilization. We have little to no fossil evidence of chimps, not because they didn't exist but because they live in areas where fossilization is very rare. Chimps use tools, they use wooden tools, but if we hadn't actually seen them use wooden tools we would have no knowledge what so ever of that behavior... In dinosaur fossils we do see group behaviors and pack behaviors. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence... I think it can be asserted that we know of no dinosaurs that used tools but to say that this rules put any dinosaurs that used tools is taking the analogy a bit too far. Climbing dinosaurs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scansoriopterygidae http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_behavior Dinosaur behavior is a subject open to speculation...

The word "fact" is being used rather loosely here IMHO....

Do you realize we don't even see fossils of hominids that show such things?

And why should we believe you much less the Talmud Of Jmmanuel?

I wouldn't expect to see spears in the fossil record, obsidian spear tips possibly. The second bold statement is bit problematic as well, what would be evidence of that social structure in the fossil record?

Religion fails miserably as a moral guide, just the Abrahamic version of religion teaches everything from genocide to child molestation as being allowed... actually demanded by god. The Christian religion as we know it has been gelded, we do not see what religion did when it had almost complete "moral" control, personally if i pray for anything I pray that biblical morals will never be allowed control of our society again...

My point was more about how silly things get when you think you need to say something but do not give any thought to what you are actually saying. Illegal guns are very easy to get, probably about as easy as buying meth we just don't hear of illegal gun dealers being busted the same way we hear of meth dealers being busted. Not long ago a huge drug bust was made in my town. The guys car contained several different types of illegal drugs from meth to heroin and guns... The news showed the huge drug cash displayed on a table, several pounds of various drugs but the bust also netted about 2 dozen guns of various types, mostly semi auto machine pistols. The value of the drugs and their impact on society was elaborately explained but the guns were just a side bar only described in passing. Illegal guns is a huge problem, often drugs are exchanged for guns, guns originate in states where guns are easy to get and I-40 is a pipe line for drugs coming from up north and guns coming from down south.

What point are you attempting to make here? I would appreciate it if you would elaborate. The NAZI's were connected with the Muslim leaders of the time, I've done some reading on the subject and I was surprised to learn of the connections between Muslim leaders and The NAZI's of the time. To me it indicates that religion has influence but for the most part the influence comes from humans using religion to further their goals rather than god handing down proclamations. Hitler, at least in his public persona, was a religious fundamentalist, he used religion to further his own goals. Possibly I shouldn't have been surprised to learn of the connection between NAZI's and Muslims, at the time Jews were being persecuted by most major religions and while modern Christianity will back away from any allegations of such sympathy for anti Jewish sentiment the fact remains that Hitler tried to deport his Jewish problem and the simple fact that no country was anxious to take Jews due to this religious condemnation of Jews is quite telling IMHO, thus deportation was not a viable "solution" to his perceived Jewish problem... On top of that Germany's Jewish "problem" was due to Germany needing a scape goat for it's own internal problems. The wide spread anti Jew sentiment of the time was just what Hitler needed to blame for his countries economic woes...

This is an example of just how much stupid is in control of our government...

The prophecy of the second coming of Christ is trivially falsified, Jesus states in no uncertain terms that some of Christs followers would still be alive when he returns... none of Christs followers are still alive so the prophecy is false...

So anyone who has sexual feelings for both sexes is still homosexual?

I have strong feelings about people like evansste, he is what is known in religious circles as a sheep, these people have been at best been mislead and I think it's more accurate to say they have been brain washed. They grow up listening to preachers, pastors or ju ju men feed them the supposed word of god in little sound bites and the the idea of questioning these sound bites is blasphemy and cannot be tolerated. They are told that questioning is wrong but the real reason they are told not to question is because their so called leaders know that anything less than blind obedience might allow them to throw off the shackles of being a sheep. These professional preachers are toxic to humanity, they demand blind obedience of huge numbers of people who don't realize the entire thing is nothing but a scam. I often recommend AronRa's videos of the foundational falsehoods of creationism because he does such a good job of explaining why these people are so dangerous. You don't have to be an atheist to be free of these false beliefs but you do have to understand that you are being lied to. I feel for evansste but he has to want to know the truth, he has to understand his religious leaders are not much more than snake oil salesmen and their extravagant life styles depend on people being sheep.... This idea that the bible is the word of god is trivially falsified, how could the word of god be anything but perfect? If god wrote these books no human author could possibly compete with him, it would be an absolutely accurate description of the natural world and would reveal profound morality. All men who can sense such things, if they can sense such things at all, would completely agree and religions should come together in agreement ... Instead we see exactly the opposite, nothing but religions continuously fracturing into ever smaller groups who all say the others are being deceived. The only reasonable option is they all are being deceived by the men who claim to be messengers from god.... Evansste, I bear you no ill will but you have to want the truth you have to search for it, the search is not easy, preconceptions will have to be examined critically and do not expect to see what you want to see...

Yes but the Cap'n tossed him out of heaven and the rest is history...

Manfromzurich, before we can continue to discuss homosexuality please give us your definition of homosexuality...

Fundamentalists are not limited to Abrahamic religions and in fact Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, all have their fundamentalist branches as do other religions. Fundamentalism is adhering to some basic principles, often religious, and sometimes to the point of ignoring reality... I don't think anyone can accurately answer this question but often the religion promises that the person who sacrifices themselves automatically go to what ever version of a idyllic after life their religion teaches. Generally due to influence exerted by people in a position of respect and power. You are asking me to guess the motivations of another human being, always a fools errand. I think fundamentalists are a group desperate to deny reality because they think that wavering from their basic beliefs condemns them to hell or their religions equivalent... Often they are people with little higher education and this makes them easily swayed by con artists proclaiming to know the real truth...

I'm not sure you are using the word orthodoxy correctly... or·tho·dox·y /ˈôrTHəˌdäksē/ Noun Authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice. The quality of conforming to such theories, doctrines, or practices. I think you are equating orthodoxy to fundamentalism...

Since fossilization is quite rare and one or two million years quite a tiny thickness in the fossil record I think such creatures would be quite easy to miss. http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-over-time/did-whale-evolution-go-backwards The evolutionary decent of whales is quite well documented, I'm not sure how long it took from a purely land animal to a purely aquatic animal but from what i see in this link it didn't take more tan a few million years.

I'd buy them in a heart beat, i love shirts with intricate designs on them, it would look great to have one life tree on a silk camp shirt. I'd probably get one of each tree...

Please elaborate on the answers to both questions.The fossil record is so compressed that an intelligent species could have evolved and been wiped out in a few millions years. I am not asserting it happened but i am asking the question could we see evidence of these dinosaurs and what would that evidence be. I also wonder if the evidence could be seen over such a vast period of time and would a researcher automatically assume that any evidence was a hoax. Not only did all dinosaurs not have such natural weapons but there are some that were approaching avian levels of brain size. There were many highly intelligent (relatively so at least) that did not have an arsenal of huge teeth. Read back through the thread and you will see i have given examples of such dinosaurs.... I agree that lack of fossils is not indicative of lack of a subject. I didn't start this thread as a magnet for nutters, i think it's necessary to speculate about this in a scientific manner, i understand this idea is far from mainstream but i think we can discuss it in a reasonable way.

or maybe there is no evidence of god becasue there is no god

I am by no means an expert but from what I've been able to read about the "warp drive" thing it would not violate causality...

That is a bit harsh isn't it?

I see no reason what so ever not to do the research...

I get crap like this all the time... Taxes on ammunition will only hurt those who use guns for completely legal activities, I doubt a connection can be made that making ammunition difficult to purchase would have stopped the school massacre or any other shooting but it would be a problem for those who shoot regularly and those people are most likely to be in control of their guns. But I agree we need some sort of licensing programs, a license to own a gun gun should be at least as difficult as driving license. I can see some sort of mandatory insurance to own a gun. Requiring some sort of mental health check is a no brainer from my point of view, if you fear a mental heath check before owning a gun then your mental health is in doubt IMHO...

You love them strawmen don't you rigney? I'd like to see the big guy in the sky without having to die. how is that any less reasonable than wanting to see little green leprechauns? I doubt you'll find many scientists who would say "It's only what I believe to be a fact that really matters" science by definition would say "it's only what i can find testable evidence for that really matters" religion would be the one that says "only what I believe to be a fact that really matters". Empirical Reality... what a concept... If the universe has been here forever then why is there a need for a creator?