Moontanman

Seriously, you think you can say how or what dinosaurs were capable or not of thinking? How can you assert they could not have been capable of language? Not capable of socialization? And I thought my position was indefensible...

I think you are making a critical error in your question, owning a gun does not equate to loving guns...

I think it would be more accurate to say that people who want to commit suicide gravitate toward guns as a method of suicide. If I decided it was time to check out hot having a gun would not prevent me from doing so. Sadly you do have a point about people who have guns using them irresponsibly but I can say most of the gun owners i know take guns very seriously but I do know a few that shouldn't be allowed to have a sharp stick. That needs to be addressed and it is not being done. I think it is too easy to get a gun but I don't think guns should be outlawed completely...

This is a more serious take on the idea than i expected, i am not the only person to make this connection, science, opinion, and fantasy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_intelligence This really isn't evidence but I think i might have to get this book... http://askwhy.co.uk/books/wholiessleeping.htm

Are you seriously suggesting that statistics can be applied to individuals?

I am well aware I am arguing from a virtually indefensible position, but I have gathered together enough information to say it is possible a species of dinosaur could have developed the intelligence to have some semblance of technology and it's entirely possible we have missed it in the fossil record so far. I've laid my cards on the table, it's a weak hand but not necessarily a losing hand, at one time not that long ago it would have been crazy to have suggested such a thing, now it's just unlikely. At one time the idea of continental drift was crazy, sadly the man who asserted it didn't live to see his ideas vindicated... I do not suggest i am of that caliber but i think I put together as good an argument as is possible at this time...

What has that to do with the idea of intelligent dinosaurs? In fact i think the idea that troodonts were so outclassed by the other predators of the time it supports my case, humans of today would lose in a struggle with hominids of 2 millions years ago as well... I don't think you can support any of these notions much less the part I bolded...

Considering how much monetary return there has been on the space program and how big a part of our modern society is based in waste of time and money called rocketry I can see your point...

these is something else similar to a sauna that doesn't use steam, i can't think of the name of it now but it uses dry heat...

That has got to have been a sauna...

No... I did not say that, you are putting words in my mouth, I said "troodonts did not leave any direct ancestors" No, while troodonts were indeed dinosaurs not all dinosaurs had the teeth and claws you mention, in fact troodonts were remarkably less well armed in that fashion than most other predatory dinosaurs... You are attempting to standardize a remarkably diverse group of animals and animals with virtually no brains have much better sense of smell than mammals or dinosaurs... I never said it was true for all dinosaurs troodonts in particular were not particularly specialized and some hominids were not weak or defenseless either...

My point is that no one could have predicted our extensive technological advances from the mineral magnetite. We put men on the moon with nothing more than the epiphany of "that odd stone picks up iron, I wonder why". Sometimes even tiny things can turn out to be vastly important, you indicated this avenue of inquiry was worthless, you cannot know that...

And birds are dinosaurs and theropod dinosaurs do have limbs free to manipulate objects, hominids didn't have much more of an advantage than this to begin with...

I don't think we can really say either way, the most honest answer is "we don't know" Again we cannot say that but recent discoveries do point to the possibility, before we figured out that bird brains are significantly different than mammal brains we could be quite sure that dinosaurs were almost too stupid to live but now we know that mammalian EQ is not an indicator of other animals EQ. Our bias toward mammalian brains and intelligence led us to believe that only brains of similar size, structure and complexity could be intelligent, this is now demonstrably false. In fact i would suggest that the humble octopus shows that in spades. The octopus lives only for a couple years, most live less than one year yet they can learn a task by watching another octopus perform that task. This was once thought to be something that only higher vertebrates could do. While I cannot assert that dinosaurs were intelligent as hominids I can assert it was within the realm of reality as we know it. The most important thing that can be taken away from this is that We have been chauvinistic toward mammals being more intelligent than other animals by default and we now know this is evidently not true... Nor is brain size an evident indicator of intelligence as well...

You miss my point completely and what is ITT?

Hmmm, what if electricity had been thought of that way, nothing will ever come of it, it takes far too much energy for it be useful... your link doesn't work btw...

Polar Bears cannot be endangered if hunts are allowed, a species of concern possibly but what does this have to do with the subject at hand? BTW i don't give two shits about polar bears, they are dangerous animals that will prey on humans if given the opportunity and Alaska is... different... they do crazy shit like trying to succeed from the union and hunting wolves from helicopters they are an aberration compared to the rest of the US...

You can't plan for stupid...

yeah but where are you going to find a virgin around a bunch of pro football players?

Wildcat Willy and Cactus Jack McGee... A young man walks into a bar and sits on the stool, he calls the bartender over and says... "Give me a shot of your best whiskey, I'm a gun fighter, the fastest gun in the west! The Bartender sits a shot of whiskey in front of him and says... I've never heard of Wild Cat Willy, are you as good as Cactus Jack McGee? Wild Cat Willy laughs loudly and says... "Cactus Jack! Hell he is old, he is a has been I could out shoot him any day and twice on Sunday" The Bartender smiles and says... "See that gentleman sitting at the end of the bar drinking a beer? He is Cactus Jack and I think he heard what you just said" Wild Cat Willy gets a panicked look and immediately slides down the bar to where Cactus Jack is sitting and says... "Mr McGee, you are my hero, you inspired me to become a gun fighter I know everything you have ever done!" Cactus Jack looks at him a moment and says,"let me see your guns son" Willy pulls out his pearl handled revolvers to show Cactus Jack and Cactus jack says... "Good looking guns there boy, but can you hit anything with them?" "You bet" says Willy and he draws his right hand gun and proceeds to shoot the right hand cuff link off the piano player in one shot.... Cactus jack says, "Impressive son but can you shoot with your left hand?? "Of course" says Willy and he pulls his left pistol and shoots the other cuff link off the piano player... "Very Impressive" says Jack... Willy asks, "Mr McGee, being the great gun fighter you are can you give me any advice that would be helpful?" "Sure" replies Cactus Jack, "The first thing you need to do is go back to the Kitchen and ask the chief for a hand full of lard..." Lard? asks willy, "how can lard help me?" "Well" says Jack, "you want to take that lard and cover your guns with it, make sure you cover them real good with that lard..." Willy looks puzzled, "Mr McGee, that will make my guns so slippery I wouldn't be able to hold onto them, in a gun fight I might drop them and not be able to defend myself!" "Yes" replies Jack, "but when Wyatt Earp gets finished playing the piano you are gonna want them guns to be well lubricated...."

Could it have been a room to hang smoked meat?

So the one smelled the best roasting would please god and that team would win?

I'm not sure what you are asserting here... I assert this resemblance makes it possible there were intelligent dinosaurs... For me Mormyrids, specifically elephant nose fishes, are more than just a google link, I've kept them for many years, they do display behaviors that suggest some inkling they are a bit more intelligent than other fish. They communicate with each other through electrical impulses, defend themselves with electrical impulses that are closely directed unlike electric eels that just shock everything in range, they live in black water that doesn't allow light so they navigate with electrical fields (most species are pretty much blind), they school in large groups. All they lack is size and hands... but the real point is that their brains are completely different than mammal brains, I think it's a mistake to compare any other animals brain with mammal brains and draw conclusions from that comparison... I have to agree with this, I am not asserting that dinosaurs were technological beings i am saying we simply can't say one way or another... unless we actually find such evidence we will forever be unable to say one way or another... It's not evidence, but i think we should be more open to the possibility, as it is now if dinosaurs bones are found with something akin to arrow heads that would be evidence. I think this is at the heart of this discussion, what would we expect to see and would we recognize it if we did see it or would our human chauvinism kick in and make us assume it was some sort of hoax or a natural occurrence that just looked like stone tools. In archaeology (oh how I wish we had areal archaeologist here) any thing resembling a stone tool is examined very closely if it is found in strata contemporary with hominids would we do the same in strata too ancient to be contemporary with hominids?

If they adhere to biblical precedence they would have burn their best player before the game... I'm betting that even their multi million dollar contracts wouldn't be enough for that...

You are operating on misinformation.... no one hunts endangered species, it's illegal, I do not live in fear, and guns are an ingrained part of our culture. The lethality of guns held by private owners has not increased in lethality in a hundred years and taking guns away from everyone would mean a house to house search which is a violation of our rights as citizens. I to keep dogs but not dogs that would harm anyone. in fact I would never keep a dog who would hurt some one, it would be like having a gun with it's own mind that i cannot control. I do not fear anyone carrying a gun, you are operating on propaganda nothing more...