Moontanman

I was having trouble remembering the foods I dislike the most, I couldn't think of even one. So I looked in the mirror and realized I must pretty much like everything... No wait... chicken liver eeewwww!!!!

What? You don't think a PhD in Truthology from Christian Tech counts?

I just saw a commercial that said the president was a hypocrite because his children are protected by armed guards, the dog and pony show has more than a bit of republican dogs and ponies...

I think some are forgetting the scale of what is being considered. Volcanoes erupt from the ocean floor under thousands of feet of water and make it to the surface, often quite explosively... adding water would be less than useless. Drilling a hole to relieve pressure? magma domes can be many miles across, not gonna make a difference...

When you say reptiles I am going to assume you mean dinosaurs... Dinosaurs were warm blooded just like birds and many of them had feathers for warmth and are known from fossils that were above the arctic circle during the age of dinosaurs... ...

Do you a mirror in your house? if you do i suggest you look in the mirror and see that the pot calling the kettle black is not acceptable...

Spoil sport... so I don't get to be transferred into a centaurs brain either?

I guess i asked for it but this is not evidence of anything but some guy said something.... If dinosaurs are visiting us now isn't the topic... Anyway, to be back on topic, some people have given some thought to the effect humans are having on the biosphere now and it can be thought of a mass extinction comparable to the K/T boundary in the fossil record. Is that the only discernible record our civilization will leave 65,000,000 years from now?

I have to agree, we really don't know that EQ is a good indicator of intelligence, there are fish whose brain to body ratio is higher than humans but they don't build cities either. i think it's quite possible that Dinosaur brains and the EQ are readily comparable. T-Rex had a brain as massive as a chimp, I'm not sure a T-Rex was as dumb as some would have us believe just because it's body was large. But the question remains would intelligent dinosaurs have left anything behind we could see as evidence of their existence? Would our civilization still be easily recognized 65,000,000 years from now?

I will admit Semjase you do have a unique perspective on this. I would love to see some support for that assertion... That is an interesting assertion, I'm not sure how it relates to the OP but I would like to see some support for this. I agree with the bolded part of this statement but I'm not sure how this paragraph relates to the OP, can you elaborate?

Most mainstream science assumes that dinosaurs had an Encephalization Quotient that was far too low to have allowed intelligence on a hominid level. How ever recent work with birds has reveled that mammal EQ ratios do not apply to birds. The brains of birds would seem to operate differently than mammals with smaller brains allowing complex behaviors. Birds being dinosaurs is accepted as mainstream science so the next question is could intelligent dinosaurs have existed? Many might say immediately that we would have seen the fossils by now but to be fossilized is such a rare event that we know that only a tiny fraction of extinct animals ever fossilize. So could we have missed them? if so how advanced could they have become and "us" still miss them? http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090713/trent-a.shtml These images still don't tell the story.. if there was one, they assume an EQ of human stature is needed, but what if the Bird Brain is a better model? How big would the brain have needed to be? A crow can use tools, has a language and transmits "culture" to it's offspring so could a dinosaur of a more bird EQ have existed and we missed it even if we did find the fossils? What could we expect to find after 65,000,000 years? How much technology could they have developed and still be missing from the fossil record? Could such dinosaurs have achieved space travel and still be missing from the fossil record?

The same things were being said 50 years ago, we will find new resources, that's why space travel is so important, once we expand into space resources will be unlimited...

yet another appeal to authority... empty insinuations and appeals to authority do nothing to support your position... You need testable empirical evidence not what someone feels might apply, next week science might actually discover something to absolutely negates the possibility of what you are asserting... will concede defeat at that time or will you squirm your way out of the delima by changing you revelation? You are not giving evidence immortal, you giving opinions, and possibilities....

Did you seriously say that pagans are included in your religious assessment? which pagans? None of the pagans I know would agree with you does that mean they are not religious? You, immortal, are totally ignorant to your own hubris... Ok, so we have established that most atheists are liars, and that their investigation of religion is also a lie? And it is we who are wrong and you are right and only you have the special knowledge that allows you to be correct? And yet you cannot show this to us or show evidence of it in any empirical testable way? You say this is obvious yet you show no support for this claim other than what you believe on faith.... that is the height of ignorance...

you might think you can but in reality you cannot and if you just stop for a few seconds and realize how full of hubris you really are you might realize it...

"never fairly considered" is putting a positive spin on the problem. the reality is that Governments, The US government in particular actually ran a disinformation campaign against UFOs and ridiculed anyone who tried to seriously study UFOs. Their main investigator Dr. Hynek, eventually quit and went on to support the extra terrestrial origin of UFOs. I think reasonable study could be made to falsify the UFO phenomena, I was hoping that WISE would either detect their bases or mother craft in the Ort cloud or Kuiper belt but I talked to a couple of people who were familiar with WISE and i was told it wasn't capable enough to do that. But a probe similar probe might if it was designed the right way. At least one and in my mind the most likely scenario could be directly tested by science. I won't hijack your thread but I do have a thread on this prospect... A lunar orbiter should be able to confirm or deny those bases quite easily via infrared detection...

I have to admit that if aliens are really here the far side of the moon would be a great place to hide a base... But... if NASA had photographic evidence of aliens on the moon they would be all over television.. NASA would have the funding of it's dreams immediately! I doubt the veracity of these pictures...

I've been reading this thread and I'd like to comment. Too-Open-Minded, great idea for a thread dude! Sadly it has brought out some real pessimists and while pessimism has it's place I can't use it to pour doom and gloom on the future of the human race. I think our reluctance to use nuclear weapons is far more significant than some seem to be willing to admit. in fact I think it goes beyond that. We humans have shelved the deadliest weapons before nuclear weapons became a threat. Poison gas was used then withdrawn due to the horror it revealed. Humans made the decision not to use chemical and biological weapons in modern times. In earlier human history such restraint was unheard of, the enemy was... the enemy, you killed him any way you could. If that meant catapulting dead bodies of plague victims over the city wall so be it. If it meant selling everyone conquered into slavery it was done, few people even thought of objection. Killing everyone man woman and child? It was not just done it was celebrated. If nuclear weapons had been made available to ancient humans does anyone here think they wouldn't have been used as many times as weapons were available? Human culture has advanced, geologic history has no bearing on the issue... Star Trek.... Oh how I love it when people sneeringly use that to ridicule someones argument... Why is some silly bullshit made up 3500 years ago that does nothing but separate and deny the basic humanity of anyone different more valid than something made up now that is inspiring and speaks to human rights and diversity and the celebration of those ideals? IDIC... google it... is a basic concept of the United Federation of Planets, yes it's fiction but fiction can be used to spread hope and a celebration of those who are different. Why is that so trivial and fictional writings of thousands of years ago that do nothing but sow dissension and mistrust between men who are different or who believe different are so valid that civilizations can base their entire morality on them? BTW, no i don't expect there will ever be a Star Ship Enterprise, it's the philosophy not the technobabble that is important... I think we can move past bronze age mythology and if we want to replace it with a modern mythology and follow it and be free to change it as the need arises because we know it is made up and can be changed as we change... I think that is a good thing... I think Humanity has good reason to be hopeful. We can conceive of something better and we do it! maybe 3500 years ago the mythology they created was better than what they had at the time but we can and do provide our own path and space travel and colonization of the universe is a good way to go. This advance might seem slow to us in the here and now but i can remember when in my own believed country people who were different were ostracized and denied their humanity, if you care to read history it was much worse not that long ago... It's been an uphill battle and not with out setbacks and i am sure there will be more but the overwhelming trend is toward humanity becoming more moral than our own gods... I think it's quite possible that we can and will spread earth life through the galaxy, maybe the local group of galaxies as well (it's difficult to conceive of much more within reasonable time lines) one thing is sure, staying on the Earth and going down with the ship is not acceptable, it's not the human way, humans want to know what is over the next hill, what is beyond that and on and on, humans survive, it's why we dominate the planet and technology willing... the rest of the universe...

Immortal, i don't know your life experiences but I have not just read about religion I've experienced it, from the most fundamentalist Christians, pass me the rattle snake but hold the strychnine, to speaking in tongues and traditional Catholics (who the pagans say are really just male dominated pagans) and attended calling the circle and calling down the moon with witches, yes they do it nekked and sweaty, and they take their rituals very seriously, I felt honored to have been allowed to attend. I've talked extensively with the adherents to many religions, most of them did little but try to convert me, a hopeless cause. The Pagans seemed to have the healthiest attitude toward their religion, they admit up front that most of it is made up or gleaned from legends and old writings but they do have a idea of "what feels right" their rituals are based on what feels right to them and they do not proselytize. You have to seek them out, they are not exactly hiding but they know history and mostly prefer to do their rituals in private outdoor settings. Witches like poets... the main thing is that all of them have no real basis in empirical reality. neither does yours, i do understand how important ritual is to the adherents of any religion, it's something they all do and it keeps the group together but ritual has no bearing on the veracity of the religion and neither does ancient writings, you have to believe via faith. your assertion that none of these people are religious is insulting. you do not get to define religion anymore than the snake handlers do. It's your belief and you have a right to them but you do not have a right to your own reality...

I understand you can't breath freon, I didn't know they were toxic, one of the main things they said about the rockets was that the freon was harmless. I can't remember the freons number, for some reason 22 sticks in my mind but I'm not sure. I was thinking that mixed with oxygen it would be breathable. I remember testing a lot of rockets indoors, strapped down so they couldn't move, they didn't harm me...

How about Freon? I used to launch model rockets powered by Freon, it is very dense and does pool in low areas...

immortal, does your version of religion have anything to say about lying?

I am well aware of what is being discussed/asserted here and so far you have failed to show any of it to be anything but faith and belief, I have no problem with that but to assert it as empirical evidence your god is real is simply not supported by what you keep claiming is evidence...

I want a elephant the size of a dog... or a centaur! Genetic engineering gives me goose bumps...

Missing links? let me know if you want to discuss missing links... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil