Moontanman

I have to ask, is NCO2 really a molecule? just writing chemical symbols beside each other does not a molecule make, if even a tiny amount of the chemistry i was taught has been retained by my brain...

I know this is supposed to only be about censorship but I would honestly like to see some support for this idea, bolded by me... I don't know what to make of it in the context of what i know... if a new thread needs to be made then it needs to be made but this idea of pymander being somehow authoritative on the stuff he claims in this one paragraph is in outrageous need of support... not the least of which is the sentence I put in bold type...

that is not an accurate description... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrES-4b

I just did, naturalism works, the supernatural does not... Again you have no understanding of my position and only see my position as defined by you... strawman at best... Again, i suggest you actually think about what you are saying, first of all atheism is simply lack of belief in a god or gods... nothing more... you are asserting that morals can only come from god, i have shown you this is false, I have to admit it doesn't mean morality wasn't handed down by gods only that morality is possible with out gods. But I can go further and show that morals are an intricate part of any and all social species as applies to their particular needs. People who do not socialize well tend not to successfully reproduce over time, our basic moral structure is rooted in our biology. Now you go further and say that morals can only be derived from god, in your case a particular god, but if we examine the behavior of your god and the behaviors he demands from his followers it is easy to show your god is not moral in the human sense at the very least. But there is a greater problem here, you keep asking for evidence that there is no god which is simply silly. To be 100% sure there are no gods would require a being with at least god like powers to make such an assertion. It is how ever easy to show, as has been shown many times here, that there is no evidence for the existence of god. your ideas about god keep getting shoved into smaller and smaller places, now he would seem to hide some place in the big bang which in of it's self may very well not be an entirely accurate description of reality. None the less even if the big bang turns out to be correct and the universe cannot be explained by natural causes we can be aware of that does not mean that a god did it much less that your god did it... your idea that something must come from nothing if the big bang is true is a strawman as well. Only you are asserting that something comes from nothing, a god that comes from nothing and makes everything from nothing... Again I see a basic misunderstanding here, just because science cannot say what came before the big bang and in most ways this is a nonsensical question, it does not imply something from nothing, it means we simply do not know... We do not know does not mean god did it after all, there is still no evidence what so ever for a god or your god, yes it would be extremely easy to god to show his existence, he has in the past... supposedly... stop the sun in the sky, swap the orbits of planets, if god is all powerful then he can do these things, his so called holy book says he has done them in the past, has he gotten shy in his old age? Come off it dude, believe if you want but to assert your beliefs as the truth is simply dishonest...

If you must tax me, and I understand that taxes are necessary, tax my income, do not tax my property over and over and then when i am in the fall of my life and my income goes down take my property away from me. I see this happening all over the place where I live, property taxes go up arbitrarily as property values go up as more affluent people move in and pay bigger prices for similar property but they do not take into account the income of the people involved. i think this makes the idea of owning property of any kind much less something like a house a joke... you don't own it you rent it from the local government...

I love the "grapplingwithignorance" guy, great video...

I'm going to have to go with paranoiA here on this, on at least the property tax thing I'm not sure i understand the capital gains tax thing well enough to comment on it. Taking away your home because you cannot pay taxes on it or if paying those taxes presents a clear burden on the person who is paying them should be done away with, at the very least, it should be impossible to take something you have paid for away because you cannot pay the property taxes on it. Property taxes is an instance of double taxation. Why should I pay my local city, county and state government taxes on my car that is paid for? I pay one of the highest tax rates on gasoline already, just inspecting my car costs as much as $40 (something close to that, i always have something wrong that needs to be fixed as well) but every year I have to pay taxes yet again on a car i already own.... but taxes on a house you personally live in is just wrong, you pay for every service provided to you and your house...

Paddlefish's Doubled Genome May Question Theories On Limb Evolution ScienceDaily (Aug. 6, 2012) — The American paddlefish -- known for its bizarre, protruding snout and eggs harvested for caviar -- duplicated its entire genome about 42 million years ago, according to a new study published in the journal Genome Biology and Evolution. This finding may add a new twist to the way scientists study how fins evolved into limbs since the paddlefish is often used as a proxy for a more representative ancestor shared by humans and fishes. A juvenile paddlefish, just under three inches long at two months old. Fully grown American paddlefish can reach five feet (1.5 m) in length and have a protruding snout or "rostrum." A new study by researchers at San Francisco State University finds that the American paddlefish underwent a genome duplication 42 million years ago. (Credit: Diane Fenster/ San Francisco State University)

pot kettle black... Please see post #7 in this thread, actually watch it this time... Evidence for naturalism? The computer you are typing this on works because science based on naturalism works, the medicine you take, the car you drive, the airplane you fly across, country in the food you eat, in fact our entire first world civilization works due to scientific naturalism. Take away scientific naturalism and people begin to die immediately, millions within days, pray for the sick and injured all you want they will die, pray your water supply works or that the sewage system works, pray for electricity to be generated. Within months billions of us would die, no more technology, no more food, no more medicine.... scientific naturalism, it works, it provides us with life it's self, pray all you want, I'll go with science for the win and civilization... Hitler was religious, in fact he was a creationist, if you don't understand why Hitler was wrong then you either cannot comprehend empathy or you need to be threatened with eternal damnation before you will behave, either way is unacceptable...

Must be true? I have heard that what we observe about the universe suggests very strongly that what is true here is also true every where else, I expect that some of what we currently think is true will eventually be seen as false but I expect it will be seen as false every else we can measure as well... I have never been told it must be true every where else... how can we possibly know that which we cannot measure?

How much would you like to bet? To be completely honest actually reading and studying the bible is what makes me sure your god does not exist... Before I actually studied it I was quite sure a god or gods existed, most probably your god in fact, but reading it and actually trying to understand it instead of listening to what everyone else claimed it said and meant convinced me that your god is nothing but mythology, much like Zeus, Mars, Jupiter, Thor, Odin, and every other deity tossed onto the trash bin of human belief your god is no better than any of the others and deserves no better than any of the others....

I am sorry Alan, I thought you were saying that the 2nd law of thermodynamics precludes abiogenesis, my mistake...

Yes I can, I have done so, just because you cannot keep from raping and pillaging the world with out the threat of eternal damnation doesn't mean everyone else shares your character flaw... I respect the life of other human beings, I respect their need for life, it's called empathy, I do not have to have a god to tell me if harming someone else is wrong... So... it finally comes out, if I had only studied the bible I would agree with you... I have no disbelief in god, I have no belief in a god or gods, I see no evidence of such a being or beings, in the absence of evidence the default position is there are no gods...

This is the most dishonest dissembling apologetic crap i think i have ever heard of, so the descriptions of warfare was just hyperbole but the commands to kill every man woman and child even the animals or the commands to keep all the little girls for their own use is just hyperbole? Kill homosexuals is just hyperbole? Sad that someone would want to worship such a being much less call him god...

How can you say that? You don't know that person, in fact you are making a totally baseless assertion that he has a closed mind. It's quite insulting... And you have been shown that you are using the wrong idea about information. Insults will not accomplish anything. Again, you have been provided with a better explanation, your interpretation of the facts has been shown to be flawed. Again you try to introduce a strawman, you are the one who is claiming that something must come from nothing. An intelligent creator from nothing or an intelligent creator making something from nothing, both are just added complications that add nothing to the conversation but more layers of BS...

I know this is thread necromancy but I had the 9/11 dream as well, the night before it happened, but to be honest i figured it was some sort of odd deja vu because the dream didn't come to me until i heard the news reports as it happened. But I knew a man who about a week before it happened sat up in bed and said "they are going to knock down the twin towers" this is significant because he was in the last hours of his life, dying from cancer. Before he went back to sleep he became quite agitated over this, wanting to warn someone about it. Until the 9/11 attack no one had a clue as to what he was talking about and considered his words to be nonsense... quite possibly his words were just garbled dreams and only matched the available data after the fact but several of us had that hairs standing up on the back of our necks feeling from it. I regularly have dreams from the point of view of a person it is happening too. Difficult to explain but also not information that can be used because the dream doesn't come to me until after I hear of the event happening, I have come to think it is a bit like deja vu and more of your brain using current info to "remember" something it didn't really know until you heard of it. The friend who struggled in his last hours of life with that dream is difficult to explain.

Here it is, personal protection at it's finest... and smallest http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/23582/

Ok, it looked to me like he was claiming that only his version of god was being censored but i'll go with simple censorship...

So the example provided of the energy input of the sun and life has no meaning to you?

Pymander, why is it the Christian religion you seem to think is so important? What makes the Christian religion worthy of more respect than any other?

Care to share on of those impossible not to believe in god type miracles? We can play word games forever doesn't make god any more likely... Why does that cause have to be an intelligent super being? Why can it not simply be a naturalistic cause we are currently unaware of? Accident? Lucky? If things were different... things would be different... and we wouldn't be here to complain. You have made a positive assertion that god exists, in fact you are asserting that a particular god exists but no matter, the burden of proof is on you not me....

What is your point here pymander, a wall of text making numerous assertions is difficult to answer. What is your main point in your own words?

I honestly don't think that guns laws are either at fault for this or could have prevented it. This man was both intelligent and insane, a very bad combination if you are looking to prevent a crime. Having no guns what so ever might have made it more difficult for him but things like pipe bombs and chemical weapons could have been used to randomly kill with out guns. he was quite capable of doing what he did with out guns... If indeed the argument is made he was imitating the movie in some way the argument is still valid since the bad guys in the Batman Movies use more than guns to spread havoc.

just a few tiny things that show that if god is real then he is a immoral monster...

Alan, the reason it seems this way to you is that you are misinterpreting this idea, in a closed system what you say would be true but the Earth is not a closed system. The Earth receives energy from within as chemical energy, radioactive energy and more importantly to us Complex life forms energy from the Sun. Remove these energy inputs and yes the Earth would indeed wind down, freeze and life would cease. Just like a refrigerator generates a local reverse in entropy by using an outside energy source the Earth has outside energy sources as well.... it is these energy sources that allow for a localized increase in order at the expense of energy from the sun and internal chemical and radioactive energy sources... sorry, cross post with iNow...