Moontanman

Must be true? I have heard that what we observe about the universe suggests very strongly that what is true here is also true every where else, I expect that some of what we currently think is true will eventually be seen as false but I expect it will be seen as false every else we can measure as well... I have never been told it must be true every where else... how can we possibly know that which we cannot measure?

How much would you like to bet? To be completely honest actually reading and studying the bible is what makes me sure your god does not exist... Before I actually studied it I was quite sure a god or gods existed, most probably your god in fact, but reading it and actually trying to understand it instead of listening to what everyone else claimed it said and meant convinced me that your god is nothing but mythology, much like Zeus, Mars, Jupiter, Thor, Odin, and every other deity tossed onto the trash bin of human belief your god is no better than any of the others and deserves no better than any of the others....

I am sorry Alan, I thought you were saying that the 2nd law of thermodynamics precludes abiogenesis, my mistake...

Yes I can, I have done so, just because you cannot keep from raping and pillaging the world with out the threat of eternal damnation doesn't mean everyone else shares your character flaw... I respect the life of other human beings, I respect their need for life, it's called empathy, I do not have to have a god to tell me if harming someone else is wrong... So... it finally comes out, if I had only studied the bible I would agree with you... I have no disbelief in god, I have no belief in a god or gods, I see no evidence of such a being or beings, in the absence of evidence the default position is there are no gods...

This is the most dishonest dissembling apologetic crap i think i have ever heard of, so the descriptions of warfare was just hyperbole but the commands to kill every man woman and child even the animals or the commands to keep all the little girls for their own use is just hyperbole? Kill homosexuals is just hyperbole? Sad that someone would want to worship such a being much less call him god...

How can you say that? You don't know that person, in fact you are making a totally baseless assertion that he has a closed mind. It's quite insulting... And you have been shown that you are using the wrong idea about information. Insults will not accomplish anything. Again, you have been provided with a better explanation, your interpretation of the facts has been shown to be flawed. Again you try to introduce a strawman, you are the one who is claiming that something must come from nothing. An intelligent creator from nothing or an intelligent creator making something from nothing, both are just added complications that add nothing to the conversation but more layers of BS...

I know this is thread necromancy but I had the 9/11 dream as well, the night before it happened, but to be honest i figured it was some sort of odd deja vu because the dream didn't come to me until i heard the news reports as it happened. But I knew a man who about a week before it happened sat up in bed and said "they are going to knock down the twin towers" this is significant because he was in the last hours of his life, dying from cancer. Before he went back to sleep he became quite agitated over this, wanting to warn someone about it. Until the 9/11 attack no one had a clue as to what he was talking about and considered his words to be nonsense... quite possibly his words were just garbled dreams and only matched the available data after the fact but several of us had that hairs standing up on the back of our necks feeling from it. I regularly have dreams from the point of view of a person it is happening too. Difficult to explain but also not information that can be used because the dream doesn't come to me until after I hear of the event happening, I have come to think it is a bit like deja vu and more of your brain using current info to "remember" something it didn't really know until you heard of it. The friend who struggled in his last hours of life with that dream is difficult to explain.

Here it is, personal protection at it's finest... and smallest http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/23582/

Ok, it looked to me like he was claiming that only his version of god was being censored but i'll go with simple censorship...

So the example provided of the energy input of the sun and life has no meaning to you?

Pymander, why is it the Christian religion you seem to think is so important? What makes the Christian religion worthy of more respect than any other?

Care to share on of those impossible not to believe in god type miracles? We can play word games forever doesn't make god any more likely... Why does that cause have to be an intelligent super being? Why can it not simply be a naturalistic cause we are currently unaware of? Accident? Lucky? If things were different... things would be different... and we wouldn't be here to complain. You have made a positive assertion that god exists, in fact you are asserting that a particular god exists but no matter, the burden of proof is on you not me....

What is your point here pymander, a wall of text making numerous assertions is difficult to answer. What is your main point in your own words?

I honestly don't think that guns laws are either at fault for this or could have prevented it. This man was both intelligent and insane, a very bad combination if you are looking to prevent a crime. Having no guns what so ever might have made it more difficult for him but things like pipe bombs and chemical weapons could have been used to randomly kill with out guns. he was quite capable of doing what he did with out guns... If indeed the argument is made he was imitating the movie in some way the argument is still valid since the bad guys in the Batman Movies use more than guns to spread havoc.

just a few tiny things that show that if god is real then he is a immoral monster...

Alan, the reason it seems this way to you is that you are misinterpreting this idea, in a closed system what you say would be true but the Earth is not a closed system. The Earth receives energy from within as chemical energy, radioactive energy and more importantly to us Complex life forms energy from the Sun. Remove these energy inputs and yes the Earth would indeed wind down, freeze and life would cease. Just like a refrigerator generates a local reverse in entropy by using an outside energy source the Earth has outside energy sources as well.... it is these energy sources that allow for a localized increase in order at the expense of energy from the sun and internal chemical and radioactive energy sources... sorry, cross post with iNow...

I think some people are simply born different, either from the very beginning or they are more vulnerable to influences that push them in the direction of lacking any empathy and this can lead to being influenced into acts of depravity. IMHO these people are not different in some profound way but the difference is there and while it might be subtle they can be influenced in the direction of anti social behavior. A very few humans are actually born violently insane and seem to be set off by almost anything. I'm not sure i understand this mind set...

Jesus did not negate the laws of the old testament, I tire of having to tell wide eyed believers what their own holy book says, I also tire of pointing out their holy book is morally corrupt on a scale that is difficult to comprehend if you truly are a moral person, I also tire of pointing out their's is not the only god, goddess, or gods with a holy book and has exactly the same evidence as any other holy book. I tire of pointing out they are worshiping a book written about myths about god instead of god. I tire of morally bankrupt, self righteous, people who think they have to right to judge the moral character of others based on this crock of horse feathers they call religion... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75UeVLbkXeg I have no problem with people believing in a god or gods or a goddess, as long as they understand it's a belief and cannot be used to dictate reality I have no problem it it, in fact i will defend your right to your beliefs. You have every right to believe in your god, you have no right to assert it as reality...

So could invisible dragons, what is your point? A naturalistic cause that doesn't add a unnecessary layer of complexity... such as colliding branes in a multidimensional space... And yet you provide no evidence for the god you believe in that is any better than the evidence of Harry Potter.....

The first video I posted in post #7 explains that quite nicely, of course we could go with your objective morality and kill anyone who disagrees with your bible...

You have been shown evidence that this is a strawman argument yet you ignore it instead of trying to refute it... No, you cannot show out universe is fine tuned for life, in fact since more than 99.9999% of the universe is hostile to life i think it can be said the universe is not fine tuned for life... irreducible complexity is yet another strawman that has been refuted in this thread many times... Do you have any real science to back any of this up? Again, listen to this closely Elshamah, no one but you is saying chance made every thing, only you, this is a strawman argument.... Every time you assert this idea that chance made everything you are showing your own ignorance... The Holy bible, old testament clearly asserts the earth is a flat disc under a crystal dome surrounded over and under by water... That is an amazing collection of strawmen, do you get points to this constant rant of ignorance? If lightning come from god why is it so easy to prevent it from striking, makes god look awfully weak to me and NO, No one says that lightning striking a pool of goo made life. Elshamah, you are an embarrassment to creationists everywhere, I bet Ken Haim tells jokes about your poor arguments...

All of it...

Yes, please define better in reference to a fish eye lens'...

I think I'm going to ask for a link or something to support that assertion that goldfish can be frozen and revived. I've seen lots of frozen gold fish none of them did anything but rot after thawing...