Moontanman

Superfusion, do you really think that being homosexual prevents a person from reproducing? Even if you are completely homosexual, sexual orientation is usually not an on off switch but more of a spectrum from heterosexual to homosexual with most people being more one than the other, (and some people liking both sexes), people are still able to have sex even it it goes against their sexual orientation and reproduce. In fact men and women when denied sexual partners of suitable sex will often turn to individuals of the same sex for sexual satisfaction as evidenced in same sex environments such as sexually divided schools and or prisons even if they are heterosexual. As for attracting the opposite sex if you are homosexual, do you think homosexual is apparent just from looking at a person? Many if not most homosexuals are not obviously effeminate men or masculine women, most of the time unless you ask you will not know. As for the advantage of being homosexual, to a family group, even if the person doesn't have off spring of their own, they can still provide support for individuals related to them in fact this support with out reproducing can allow this behavior to contribute to reproductive success of related individuals and there by support their own genes especially if resources are limited.

I would like to ask if Time had to start at the beginning of the universe. i have discussed this before and my idea is that time has always existed, time is a fundamental part of existence with out time there could be no existence but why does it have to begin with the beginning of our universe. is there a reason why or is it just an assumption that is it part of our current theories or does it have to be that way due to the mathematics i am trying to understand why time has to have a beginning.

I didn't figure you would watch the entire thing, it can be a problem to see your belief system gutted by reasonably well supported charges of plagiarism. To be honest it bothered me quite a bit, even if I didn't hold a belief in the story of Jesus it was disturbing to find out it was probably plagiarized from earlier works of the Greeks. I guess inside i still held out that at least the story of Jesus was original, and at least worth following due to the moral value of the mans teachings. I'm not being condescending, it bothered me quite a bit, Jesus and the new testament was the last part of my faith to go and it was difficult to let go of and even though I had left it behind left long ago this was difficult to watch, maybe because I had at one time believed it so deeply. But after a long day of guiding some one around the edges of the green swamp so they could take pictures of the wonders of that ecosystem and picking up several ticks, eeewww, here is the promised passages from the new testament that show Jesus lied and supported slavery. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT) Jesus’ Predictions: 1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming. Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”. This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead. Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62. "But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'" (Matthew 26:64 NAB) Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'" (Mark 14:62 NAB) 2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34 Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36 NAB) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB) 3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon. Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers. The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense. Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom. 4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Mark 13:30-31 NAB) He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1 NAB) 5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God. "Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB) 6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22) 7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will occur within the lifetime of his listeners. He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one. Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred. Luke 21:25-33 "There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees. When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Luke 21:25-33 NAB) [Editor's note: Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." (Matthew 10:23 NAB)] Also i have asked you why your version of Christianity is better than anyone else's and why your god is the only god and no the bible is not the oldest, the best, or best preserved or even the most complex holy book of the ancients. Unless you can show some reason why your version of the christian god and why the christian god is more likely to be true than any other your argument just becomes your personal opinion, not shared by many or any better than anyone else's and while you are indeed entitled to your beliefs and your opinions about them you are not entitled to your own reality...

I suggest you watch this series of videos before you dismiss the ideas here. I have to go superfusion but I will show you the scriptures that say those things when i get back this evening unless some others feel the need to do so... It is truly sad that believers do not even know their own holy books...

I know it's anecdotal but falling barometric pressure causes me considerable pain, hurricanes are too painful to describe adequately...

Yes, in one of his last sermons he declared that he would return with in the life time of some of the people who were there listening to him. Please address the slavery issue... Actually there is quite a bit of evidence he does not exist, it's called the Holy Bible... You have also failed to address why your god, indeed your version of that god, is any more real than any other god or gods, people have faith in them as well....

There is some evidence to back this up, infectious meme is what i would call it but the religious often use the idea of other religions being insanity. http://mysite.verizon.net/wsbainbridge/dl/relinsan.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion Insanity is a difficult word to define except when it is being applied to others, i have been told i am insane because i don't believe. If religion affects you in a way that inter fears with your ability to function in society in a reasonable manner I would have no problem labeling it as such, the knocks at my door that occur on a regular basis to bring me the good news even though i tell them I am not interested bring to mind the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results... I live in the middle of the bible belt in the USA it's quite possible my own experiences with these people have colored my experiences but I think a reasonable impartial judge would label a significant number of them in need of medication of some sort... As i have said before, god doesn't bother me, either he is non existent or he ignores every one equally but his fan club is a scary bunch and until Christianity was gelded by secular governments they killed people who were Christians but disagreed with there more powerful denominations only slightly less often than they killed people of totally different religions... only our secular form of government protects us from that being the standard today....

Superfusion, by now you must know that to make a positive assertion you must back it up with evidence, not baseless claims, claims oh yeah, what happened to the unicorns? Noah's Ark is still out there twisting in the wind as well. Again, why did Jesus support slavery and why did he lie about his return? His stance on slavery was and is immoral and he lied about his return.

First of all, lack of proof of god is not proof of gods existence anymore than lack of proof of the existence of centaurs means there are centaurs, in the lack of any evidence of centaurs the only reasonable way to go is there are no centaurs or unicorns which the bible does say exist btw. My lack of proof just means i see no reason to believe in a god or gods and lack of positive proof the default position is there are no gods. Evidence would change my mind but telling me i have to have faith is a cop out and again why is your god real and all the others are not? And why did Jesus lie?

These guys are, sometimes at least, difficult to just dismiss, but eye witnesses are sometimes wrong. Personally i do think there is something to UFO's, I'm not sure what, i think a real study of them should start within the human mind but actual nuts and bolts type alien space craft cannot be completely discounted. many of the objections to nuts and bolts alien space craft can be accounted for with out some sort of super science but the US Air Force for reasons of their own chose to ridicule instead of actually study UFOs. J. Allen Hynek was hired by the US Air Force to investigate UFO's but he eventually realized his job was to ridicule people instead study and eventually became a believer in the important of UFOs and the possibility they were not of this Earth. These people are charlatans of the worst kind and do nothing but impede any real scientific study of the phenomena

No, God demanded these things happen, either you don't know your own bible or you are being dishonest. This is just preaching and it is against the rules here. Again, even if Jesus was real, and there is no evidence he was other than stories written decades if not centuries after his supposed death, he still supported slavery and the laws of the old testament. Why is god so shy these days? Why hasn't the sun been stopped in the sky to aid people who were fighting on his side? Why no miracles? And why is your religion better than any other? There are other religions than the ones based on Abraham. Why is Krishna not god, come on man do you really think there are no other holy books about completely different gods or pantheons of gods? Why is yours true and theirs are not? The people who worship those gods have just as much faith as you do in yours and why is your interpretation of your own god any better than anyone else's? Oh yes, one... well two more things, why did Jesus lie about his second coming and people have thought they were in the end times since the beginning, it's a common delusion of the religious fanatics?

Isn't that effect pretty much nothing but conformation bias?

Cap'n, please separate this out into a new thread, i would like to nail this eel to a tree or be nailed which ever happens. To Superfusion, to honestly say this you first have to demonstrate why your god is the only god, unless you do this then every other god is just as real as yours as long as someone has faith they exist...

IF is the most important word you used in that post but I have to admit you are being honest, there is no proof of god, you have to have faith but that is just sugar coated horse feathers, why is your god real and Allah is not? Why is your god real and Krishna is not? Seriously, you might be honest in that you have to have faith but why faith in your god? But you need to demonstrate why god cannot be a monster, I mean he demanded genocide, rape, child molestation, slavery, the list of monstrous deeds either demanded by him or allowed by him go on and on, just saying he is above those concerns is a cop out and a man who is honest will admit that...

Says who? You? why are you an expert on how to raise someone correctly in Christianity? Yes i knew that, virtually all religions predict such persecution, it makes the believers closer and easier to control. name one that could not have been known by humans or not intentionally full filled to make it look that way? Give some examples Events? or miracles? I could write a book about an alien invasion of New York City and use real people places and events but it would still be fiction... Oh yes, Noah's ark is real, instant creation of all life in six days is true... a great deal of the bible can be demonstrably falsified... easily... Again, a positive assertion, show some evidence of this... I have read the scriptures, if even half of them are true god is a psychopathic monster, why worship him even if he is real? If Jesus Christ was real he was morally corrupt, he supported slavery !

Threats are meaningless on the net... Reason? Really? You are using reason? Evidence is what you promised and it is also what is required, reason can be used to justify anything, like a earth centered universe with planets all orbiting the earth but evidence prohibits this from being true no matter how reasonable you can make it seem...

No one can possibly imagine how badly i would love just once for one of these... theists... to actually back up their horse feathers, multilevel marketing schemers are more honest... want to go for an airplane ride, a ticket only costs you $1000 dollars and then you sell tickets to others for $1000 dollars and they sell tickets for $1000 the first on board will make a killing.... So he is malevolent? Doesn't matter you still made a positive assertion...

i answered your question, i said yes, something has always existed, now time for you to put up or shut up....

I think the main reason why it hasn't happened is because we are unwilling to use nuclear power to do the deed....

So the plan is still in effect?

I have no problem with god but his fan club is annoying as hell.... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

Ummm i thought we weren't going to tell them about the radium in the cheese nips....

It's quite possible that humans may one day be able use DNA to make things the way we do any other material object, in fact I think it's quite likely, I'm not sure why we would want to make a human from chemicals because making them via sexual reproduction is so easy and so much fun... making a life form is not a mysterious process that involves magic, it is within the realm of beings like ourselves to make life forms both unique and copies of already existing organisms, it's just not possible yet but it is apparent that humans we see today were not made that way, life on earth evolved from simple organisms which no doubt developed in some way from already existing organic chemicals. So could it be done, I would say yes with the correct technology but was it done on the earth no, far too much evidence points to evolution via natural means, could god or other technological beings have used naturalistic methods to bring about life and the evolution of that life to bring about the diversity we see today ? Yes, but he or they did it with out leaving any evidence of doing so...

My wife and I have made two humans, quite good ones as a matter of fact