Moontanman

The one at 08:00 and on is impressive but then of course you have crap like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNIE0leMB6A&feature=related As long as faking UFOs is cool only the earliest stuff from credible witnesses can even be considered, i know, it's crazy but faking UFOs is like a mark of honor for these poes....

Your assertions are nothing but a series of strawmen, a singularity is not possible? Who says? There had to be a first cause? Really? You have faith? Really? All flash and no substance JustinW.... You're making the positive assertion JustinW you have no evidence to support this assertion, it is not up to me to disprove your assertion.... But I will say you are welcome to your faith but it's not reality...

Maybe it's a mirror matter teapot.... personally i think it's a lounge chair.... none the less none of them can be proven at this time not to orbit Neptune. Not being able to disprove something doesn't make it real

I think that while joe blow from the rocky top mountain might be easily dismissed I am not as quite as willing to automatically denigrate Gordon Coopers testimony. The "saucer landing" is bizarre, it has no possible conventional explanation, he is not the only eye witness of this saucer landing to come forward, so either he is lying his ass off or he is recounting something he heard as something that happened to him, or he is actually recounting something totally inexplicable that happened in his presence. I might believe joe blow would make up such a story or miss-remember such a story but a trained astronaut deserves a bit more respect. The formations of unknown craft he flew a fighter along with other pilots to pursue is not quite as bizarre but just as inexplicable for the time period and also recounted by other pilots of that time period but they were summarily dismissed. ydoaPs while I know his memory is not positive proof, but I see no realistic gain to be made by him for making these assertions, I can't just wave him off as some doddering old man, i am rapidly approaching the age of doddering, we are not stupid because we are old.... ( I know you weren't suggesting that) I guess my take is that his assertions about these unknown craft are credible, I'd hate to have someone as credible as him as an eyewitness to a crime i had committed.... Testimony by people as credible as Gordon Cooper are puzzling and not an easy puzzle to solve.... BTW, quite a few military pilots have come out and testified to some pretty inexplicable craft being seen, they were either dismissed or told to shut up if they wanted to continue to fly. Some of these men controlled nuclear weapons, in those days they actually had control of the weapons, two 2 to 4 megaton war heads were dropped just outside Goldsburro, NC If the plane had climbed a bit higher the bombs would have been automatically triggered when they were dropped, it would have been a very bad day in Goldsburo http://www.neatorama.com/2006/09/09/oops-us-government-nuked-north-carolina/ The point I am trying to make is that at one time the people on these aircraft actually had real control over their weapons, it was but a few years for sure before more effective controls were put in place but we trusted these men with the most powerful weapons on earth but we dismiss them out of hand for seeing a craft of some sort that cannot be explained? It might not be proof but it is.... very interesting....

I can't argue in his favor because I don't know his mental state at the time of the interview, but I have to admit that if anyone's testimony is relevant to this issue his would have to be... In the time frame he talks about there is no possibility the craft was from our civilization, this is a case of either he is a bald faced liar or he is telling the truth. If he is telling the truth then it becomes what could he have seen that fits the description of what he and evidently others saw....

None are so blind as they who will not see... or something like that.... Why? So you can shove god into a another even smaller more insignificant gap in knowledge?

Mysticism? You really need to show some evidence of that. There is no reason to assume that aliens cannot have traveled from some place else in the galaxy to our solar system.

In another thread it was mentioned that one of our astronauts talked to government officials about UFO's really being alien space craft and while an astronauts second and third hand reports are interesting they carry very little weight but how about fist hand accounts by astronauts?

Oh yeah, religion has benefits, those witch children need to be eliminated just like all the witches, in league with the devil.... And no this is not some isolated thing....

Really? You are really going with what William Lane Craig said? The man who does nothing but repeat the same old tired horse feathers over and over as though by repetition his argument will somehow magically become valid? The man who offers no evidence what so ever other than his versions of other peoples totally unsupported claims? Really?

Arguments for ancient aliens are... interesting. It would a be joke of cosmic proportions if we found that our major religious beliefs were in fact based in part on contact with aliens. There are some interesting artifacts that are reminiscent of "cargo cult" type behavior. The sad fact is that the noise level of the evidence is just as bad as evidence for UFO's as alien space craft. Some of it is compelling but the noise level of the signal is so high that no real information can be extracted from the evidence. I am how ever always willing to discuss the possibilities but i admit i cannot provide any evidence that would convince skeptics or really even myself...

Stuff happens... Again, problems do crop up on forums. Wrong forum, should have been the religious forum. ----------------------- Do you have any proof of this Christian God that supports him over any other god? Again, what is your evidence for this assertion?

That is the most vacuous dishonest defense of a belief in a creator i have ever encountered....

I have no problem with harvesting human bones for phosphorus, you can have mine, it make no difference after i am dead, bury me head down with my butt up and park bicycles....

It's not necessarily to debunk a creator, by declaring there is one the burden of proof rests with you and you have no such proof so it is you that debunks a creator... So you are really going with the god of the gaps? 300 years ago it was a known fact that lightning was wielded by god and anything that was struck was receiving the creators wrath.... seems kind of quaint now days doesn't it? But the idea of god or a creator has slowly retreated from one gap in mans knowledge to another, usually smaller gaps but each time mans knowledge has pushed god out of that gap into yet another. Now he hides someplace science cannot yet go, I can't imagine a more intellectually dishonest stance to take than God is hiding in yet another gap in mans knowledge.... Those gaps you so proudly claim that god is in and that you claim cannot be proven makes your argument dishonest, the only honest answer can be we don't know ... yet.... you are the one in a sinking boat....

I don't understand why it's necessarily to repeat this "God came from the imagination of Man" There is no proof of the existence of God as anything but imagination... deal with it.... the Flying Spaghetti Monster has spoken.... Cthulhu seconds the motion....

It's all absolute silliness, Crocs specialize in grabbing prey off the land, in the open ocean the croc would never know what hit him, a shark confined to a small bay might be vulnerable but it would always know where the croc was due to it's sensory organs, organs the croc does not have.... just silly to compare the two...

What we call waste can be "burned" to make power and result in much less waste that is very short lived compared to what we do now. See post #4 in this thread.

Can you back up this assertion in anyway?

I am not clear on what you are saying here, are you saying that the speed of a space ship is limited by the speed of the exhaust? This is not true, the speed of the exhaust is not the limiting factor in the speed of a space ship, the amount of fuel or propellant is the limiting factor and the speed of light. You could propel a space ship by tossing baseballs out the back by hand if you had enough baseballs. None of these things limit space travel in an absolute way, lifetime of a human is a limiting factor but you can get around that by using generation type ships. I think you need to show some evidence of these assertions...

Yes, that can happen, people with terminal cancer can get better too. Please tell us what you would consider a miracle, I have a feeling your bar is set rather low for miraculous events. Quite the contrary, God actually demanded these things, do you not read your bible? Again Noah's ark, all of Genesis the bible is cover to cover full of stuff demonstrably not true, or so anti social as to be evil incarnate. Satan would be hard pressed to beat God at the Evil game if the bible is to be believed. We've been over this stuff many times njaohnt, I see no reason to continue to repeat the same rebuttals to your horse feathers over and over. Either provide some sort of evidence that supports your holy book or admit you don't care and are going to believe it anyway...

I have a rather strong feeling that we are somewhat polarized on this topic.... And quite possibly will forever remain so...

Damn, I was hoping for the FTL neutrinos.... I always like to stir... well you know....

I was referring to laws that try to restrict the use of drugs, it's quite dishonest to say you are going to legalize pot and then try to restuct it's availability to adults. The problem is use by children, the best way to do that is penalize giving it to under age people... Then why is this a problem for you? Where I live the minimum drinking age is 21... the maximum allowed alcohol blood level is .03% Penalize people who supply alcohol to teenagers, in the US it's felony and you can get in quite a bit of trouble if you provide alcohol to underage people... Up to a point yes, drunk and disorderly is illegal, you seem to think drinking is immoral in and of it's self... Again is this not enough? So far all you have demonstrated is that you think drinking is immoral, exactly what minimum moral standards are you suggesting? Again from what you say there are already quite reasonable laws in effect, how much further would you restrict alcohol consumption?

Trying to control behavior the ways you are suggesting will only serve to drive the problems under ground, assuming that it is a problem for everyone makes criminals out of ordinary people and unfairly stigmatizes them. These mistakes have been made in the past and our present problems are at least partly the result of those mistakes, repeating them will not make them the right thing to do.... You nor anyone else can legislate morality nor can you control behaviors just because you don't like them. Yes, alcohol and drugs should be kept away from children, convincing adults that is a good idea will not happen by restricting what adults can do... The key is to convince adults that keeping drugs and alcohol from kids is good idea. Trying to make things too expensive via taxation is not the way to go, it just drives the trade underground and you loose any control... I think the most important thing is to make people responsible for their actions, not many years ago you could get drunk and drive down the road an kill a dozen people because you lost control and the law would set you free because you were too drunk to be responsible for your actions. people were given a pass because they were drunk, it took many years but that attitude has gone away and now people don't look at drunk driving as a harmless thing to do. In fact it has become despicable behavior and it is no longer allowed and punishment is handed out to people who drink and drive whether or not they cause cause harm to others. You need to convince people their behavior is wrong not force them to conform to your ideals...