Moontanman

Are the things being portrayed in this video child abuse? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEfVNvQkIE

I'm not sure why this would make it more abusive to have non violent shared sexual pleasure with a child than indoctrinate them into behaviors that would result in harm or to brow beat them with this indoctrination and destroy their sense of self worth in some way. I doubt this, mental abuse can destroy your life and have no sexual over tones what so ever. What does having sexual pleasure as a child with an adult have to do with seeing yourself as sexually unattractive? None the less the idea that sex is bad comes from what you have been taught, not some instinctive behavior. In this thread i find myself seeming to defend something that i do not condone but the parallels with other sexual myths is difficult to ignore, Not many generations ago for a unmarried woman to have sex was fate worth than death and was supposed to result in some sort of horrendous sexual dysfunction, lack of self esteem, and other mental or personality problems in the woman who was seduced and it was indeed true but not because unmarried sex was in of it's self horrible but the reaction of society to this fallen woman was the real cause of any problems. He was often portrayed as an evil man, a seducer of women, who would use some outside leverage to force the woman into cooperation and she would feel shame and self loathing due to this seduction. Woman were considered not to be able to have consensual sex because they were innocent and easily corrupted.. I see some real parallels here, the assumption that a child cannot have any sexual urges or even find any pleasure and they the child is victim lured into something they have no way of knowing the consequences of... Back then it was because they are women and therefore cannot give consent or some sort of totally circular logic that makes no sense as we look back from our vantage point but it's important to note that back then the "seduced fallen women" were portrayed as victims and told long horrible stories about how they had been damaged by a night of debauchery... they were forced to admit how damaged they were and if they admitted to actually enjoying it then is was due to the evil influence of the man who seduced them, there was no chance they could have just enjoyed the sex, it just goes round and round like a snake swallowing it's tail.... makes my head hurt trying to unravel it To be sure i do know women who to this day refuse to give in and say they were victims when they had sex as a child, because they enjoyed it and often sought out sexual encounters... their main complaint was the reaction of adults

Excessive masturbation? (squints real hard to read) I can't see any harm in it (scratches hairy palms), no really, how could it hurt?

AS i read it God, was afraid that if men could do "this" meaning build the tower, they soon would be able to do anything so in fear of this the gods confused their languages... And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Where do the minerals come from? How could the mass of the Earth have grown out of a ball of water or any other body of water large enough to be round under it's own gravity? I think you are thinking of manganese nodules growing on the bottom of the ocean and drawing a false parallel between that and planet growth...

Where do the minerals come from? How could the mass of the Earth have grown out of a ball of water or any other body of water large enough to be round under it's own gravity? I think you are thinking of manganese nodules growing on the bottom of the ocean and drawing a false parallel between that and planet growth...

Appolinaria, could you stop with all the weird fonts, it makes it almost impossible to quote you The OP is asserting those numbers are inflated by a culture of victim hood, if the OP is reading this I'd like to see some figures on that as well. This assumes that sex below the age of 17 is abusive because they do not have sexual desire before the age of 17 nor can they consent, I doubt the first but tend to agree with the latter. That is the kind of information i was looking for, not some subjective "tons of pedos" White power groups and numbers http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-20-hategroups_N.htm I am not arguing for prostitution or child molestation i am trying to uncover facts about the OP question. I'll grant you that statistic but how many teenage prostitutes are there? millions or a few hundred at any one time? You link did not say that they could not experience sexual arousal and other scientific investigations dispute this quite nicely, An extensive study in the 1950's showed exactly the opposite with infant females being able to lubricate and orgasm and infant males being able to get erects and orgasm as well. I know that by age five i could both get an erection and have an orgasm and little girls can indeed have orgasms as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports You would have to look up the entire study to find the parts about children but they are and it was quite controversial in it's time. But having experienced it I know that neither age 17 or puberty is necessary for a person to experience arousal or orgasm. This I have seen studies on this and I pretty much agree but I don't think the impairment is as bad as you would have us believe, but try to restrict the age of sexual concent to 25 and see how long it takes you to be ridding out of town on a rail. I think the natural human condition is to start having sex at puberty, our society frowns on it for some practical reasons and some totally arbitrary reasons but there is no doubt that once you hit puberty normal humans sex drive goes on over load... and 17 is far past puberty for the vast majority of the population. Again, this has been shown to not be true, not even close, even with out my anecdotal data it is it can be shown to be true that children can and do enjoy sexual contact, have erections, lubricate, and have orgasms. Also Appolinaria, the OP is asserting that the abuse numbers are skewed due to our society inflating the numbers to include all sexual contact and not just those that were traumatized, I would like to see some data to back this up but it needs to be addressed. I think this possibility needs to be addressed... I still assert that the issue of sex is indeed treated differently and not because it is some how more traumatic than anything else a parent can do to a child.

A ton of pedos all around us? How many is that per capatia? A ton of people would be about 12 or so, how many tons of non pedos are there all around us? I wouldn't be so sure, white supremacy is quite wide spread. I'd be willing to bet there are more white supremacists than pedos... Another appeal to emotion, this is a science forum, actual evidence should be presented, not an appeal to emotions. Why is sex so much more important to avoid than other forms of possible psychological damage? Why is the fear of this so wide spread in modern society? Again, i am not trying to support the idea of sex with children.... Do you really think that pedophiles are everywhere just waiting for a chance to seduce 12 year old girls? Or could it be another case of media hype?

This wiki article suggest that Jupiter and Saturn have cores of rock and metal surrounded by liquid metallic hydrogen then gasses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_giant Neptune does indeed have a layer of ices, hi temperature and high pressure ices. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune Interior of Europa, more rock than is or water http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon) your words... I know of no bodies in the solar system that are thought to be balls of water,. this idea is not only wrong you use it so come to conclusions that are impossible, these moons are mostly rock and metal, where does the rock and metal come from and where did the water go to leave behind such a large ball of rock and liquid metal with just a covering layer of water and or ice? Your idea requires evidence, imagination without evidence results in fantasy....

Isn't that a bit self serving, god told me god was real so i know god is real because god told me he was real?

I agree that children have to be protected from being taken advantage of by adults, my own experiences bear that out, adults do not play the same way children do but if we protect children from sexual contact with adults because it might harm them why is sex the biggie and other forms of obvious psychological harm are ok? Think of the children of the West burro baptist church, (is that behavior consensual?) they are being abused terribly, far worse than being "bad touched by an adult" , those adults are taking advantage of their children to make them follow an agenda of hate and love of hate, the harm is not a "might be thing" why is sex so special? Think of kids marching with the KKK, they have their own cute little white hooded robes there are others but i think you can see where i am going. Why is sex considered so harmful and other things just as harmful if not worse allowed? is sex really the "fate worse than death?" Or is it that Virginity still is a treasure beyond price? (that implies that women are still chattel) I think it has to do with the Abrahamic mythos and it's sexual suppression as interpreted by the Victorians, although if you actually read the bible it does contain child sexual molestation being allowed by god as long as it was the children of the enemy.... I just think it's telling our society is so obsessed with controlling sex but allows other things even more despicable.

Ok, this sex with kids thing is proving to be quite a bit less than scientific. the first question to ask is why do we think that sexual contact between a child and and adult is wrong? I can say that i know several people who were sexualized as children and liked it, in fact as long as it isn't violent rape many people who had sexual contact with an adult while a child, often a quite young child, remember it fondly. Our society says that this just brain washing of a type and that the child cannot possibly have really enjoyed it a child enjoying sex is not PC. But is this assumption justifiable? i was sexualized as a child and I enjoyed it and I have talked to more than a dozen people who enjoyed it too but the the people who counciled them when it was found out did everything but move heaven and earth to convince them they couldn't have enjoyed and it and that they were molested, in the people i am talking about they say the brow beating they took as they were demanded to admit they were raped instead of enjoying consensual sex was much more damaging than the actual sex. many reported being belittled and made to feel like they were horrible people because they enjoyed it. Then there was the actions of the people they knew, telling them they were victims and that they had to admit to being victims so justice could be done and that they would never know peace unless they admitted they were hurt by the sexual contact, often the councillor was so harsh the child broke down, terrified because they had to report their dad or uncle before the harassment by the councilor would stop. Now i know these are just anecdotal experiences but to say a child cannot have sexual feelings and enjoy them is simply not true. Historically sex with a child was often a part of the culture, in Western culture just a couple hundred years ago sex with prepubescent children was allowed by marriage if for no other reason, some say a certain cultural minority of eastern Europe condones prepubescent child marriage and children are expected to have sexual feelings and act on them even today. through out history sex with children has been an expected part of those societies and often it was glorified in songs and poems. Child prostitution was common, especially if the child's mother was a prostitute as well. So where does this idea that sex with a child is horrific, and inexcusable come from? Why is sex so special, i can harm my children psychologically in many ways that will disrupt their ability as an adult due to mental damage inflicted in the name of religion or some other teaching the adult believes in, the child has no choice in these things, parents can do some quite horrible things to their children as i stated in my last post but as long as it's not sex it's golden, why is sex restricted? Where does this prohibition come from? The bible? no not hardly child molestation was not only condoned it was encouraged by god himself... In most cases when sex with a little girl was condoned women in that society were often considered to be chattel, slaves and that slavery was often sexual as well as physical. So before we go off on an emotional rant of "it just is wrong because i feel like it's wrong" can we identify why think sexual contact of a non violent nature between adults and children has to be wrong and damaging to the child? Even sex play between children is condemned today even though it is demonstrable that this sex play is quite natural for children. Please don't flame me because you think i condone sex with children, i do not... try to put aside your emotions and look at it with the eyes of a neutral observer. I can think of some pretty good reasons to restrict adult child sexual contact but so far not much in the way of real arguments have been given, lets hear some of those obvious arguments why sexual contact with an adult by a child is wrong.

He said the pipe was already cut into a U shape so the sand trick would not work.

If I read the chart correctly you were correct, i was wrong, i was evidently thinking of the age limit before prohibition, I misheard the the TV show last week (NOVA), my apologies, 15 was mentioned in the show but it was referring to alcohol consumption per person from age 15 and up, it was what i thought a huge amount but modern alcohol consumption per capita is several times higher now to my surprise. i was unaware of the drinking age before i was a teenager but I knew that I could buy alcohol when I was a teenager. Of course growing up in West Virginia everyone seemed to have moonshine but that was somewhat less than legal even then for anyone, but that mason jar of clear liquid was on everyone's cupboard shelf and when i was 14 i had no problem buying beer....

They exist near me http://www.google.com/#q=Food+lion&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=plcs&tbo=u&ei=652XTsDtBsqbtwf125zhAw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=8&sqi=2&ved=0CHwQtQMwBw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=9657de7fe756f828&biw=1152&bih=777 http://www.harristeeter.com/ Then here are the piggly wiggly's, lol http://www.pigglywiggly.com/ I love reality, even when it bites....

Ok, but is that water in the form of a gas cloud or a ball of liquid water? The assertion here is that these star emit balls of water and that Jupiter's Moons are an example of those balls of water. I think this is totally false distortion of the concept of stars emitting water.

Heat would have to be applied, i do have some experience with PVC, bending it without distorting it greatly will be a problem... Then again if the length is long enough you can bend it into a arc or even a circle but your pieces are too short to do that without heat. with heat you should be able to lay them out flat and then you can bend them into an arc but you would no longer have pipe...

We know the laws you speak of are the best explanation of the observable evidence, that is the only truth that is possible, we do not know everything about anything and what we do know is always subject to a certain degree of error. But science is self correcting, science does not check once and assume anything is true for all time, in fact the scientific method demands that everything be subject to change when new evidence is found and people look for that evidence all the time, religion simply assumes with no evidence and suppresses anyone even trying to check.... I agree, we should all look to something more powerful than mere human guesses about how reality might work, that something is science and the scientific methodology....

Incandescent gas and plasma or balls of liquid water?

Actually banana plant leaves do indeed tear naturally as a result of the wind, they tear quite easily, I'm not sure if this serves the plant in any way but it's quite rare to see a banana leaf that is not torn if they are grown under natural conditions.

The moons of Jupiter and Saturn are balls of water? Can you give us some support of this assertion, I have never heard the moons of any planet being described as balls of water....

Aren't some molecules coiled springs? Jellyfish Nematocysts are coil springs....

You said it better than i did realitycheck, good answer...

This post caused me to go back and read a few of my early posts, I started out several years ago with lots of misconceptions and preconceived notions not to mention an almost religious zeal for pseudoscience but I was looking to learn, as were you, and as long as we are growing and not stubbornly hanging on to our personal reality I am not ashamed of any of my notions i have abandoned along the way, only hanging on to them would have been a bad thing. Well I do miss the flat earth theory a little bit but hey that was along time ago and we didn't know any better before Columbus...

Swansont you are a spoil sport, but always accurate, but let us take the analogy further, lets say the bats and sound in their reality is equivalent to ours and light in our reality but both of us are unaware of transmissions faster than sound or light, could such motion be explained, inside of relativity if they were discovered? Sound and light are not equivalent, I do understand that but I am always full of "what if" questions (not to mention other stuff ) and I wonder just how resilient the idea of nothing can travel faster than light really is, what if we did find a way to transmit information faster than light, would it redefine causality or relativity or neither?