Moontanman

That is because you set the bar too low, you seem to have to have the idea that our current technology is all we will ever have. I on the other hand, think that current technology can be extrapolated into the future as long as we stick to known physics. The only real barrier is power, unless we manage to get controlled fusion it's likely we will be stuck in the solar system for quite some time but Von Neumann machines might be our saving grace with a few advances in engineering. I would also like to address the OP, "no one out there cares about us" is like saying no one cares about the social structure of Amazon River Otters. In fact they are studied by several scientists and organizations for various reasons. Saying not one cares about us requires information no one has and suggests that aliens would not want to study us because we say they would not. Intelligence suggests curiosity, curiosity would suggest a pluralism of motivations by any intelligence ours or otherwise.

Ok, points taken, I withdraw my posts on this subject and apologise for being speculative.

I wasn't aware i was required to give a detailed engineering analysis of everything i post, no one seems to be required to do that, I can attempt to do so but I don't think I'm really qualified. I am not a nuclear engineer and i did say there would be problems with fission and that fusion would be preferred or do I need to give a detailed engineering paper on why this would be so? Actually, as i referred to, for many if not all the way out ideas I post these engineering details have been done by others, scientists and engineers on many of the things i suggest, from O'Neil cylinders, to nuclear powered space craft. If I really need to give the links to details of everything I post i will endeavor to do so, makes me feel special. Perhaps if you could be a bit more detailed than a one word response like "physics" I could better provide the details required

You cited physics as the reason aliens aren't here, I pointed out that physics is not a reason, engineering might be a problem but physics does not rule it out like it rules out FTL. The 20 year wait for fusion is a joke 🤣 The 20 year wait has been asserted since I was a teenager. The fact remains that star travel is not prohibited by physics, star travel is at worst an engineering problem... A problem than IMHO can be solved. Tons of uranium can be carried if need be for the fission reactor to be refueled many times over the course of the ships traveling. Still, I have to agree that fission isn't exactly the gold standard. If you are of the opinion that controlled fusion will never be solved I can't argue that point but it does seem rather pessimistic. I am glossing over nothing, you however evidently have no hope for the future being significantly more advanced than it is today.

Those are not hand waving, other than the sleeper ship, the only assumed technology we do not have is controlled fusion and everyone knows we'll have that in 20 years. I assumed no "Clark Tech" and other than the fusion, and fusion could conceivably be replaced by fission, the technology to do these things either exists or is in the realm of possibility. Hand waving would be aliens obviously have warp drive or something like that. My "hand waving" is based in reasonable advances in technology or technology that we could manage right now. No "Clark tech" is required for a generational ship, such things were being proposed by scientists in the 1950s and 60s. Interstellar travel is possible, very difficult, but still possible. In fact we currently have plans to send a probe to alpha centauri, with current tech, engineering problems have to be solved but there are no reasons why it couldn't be done. Warp drive however is improbable, not impossible but it's not simply an engineering problem, it is a physics problem unlike slow ships between stars. .

About time NASA got on the bandwagon, it would be embarrassing if aliens were confirmed and NASA wasn't in the loop 🍋🥥

Bufofrog, I'm going to have to withdraw this post, I spent three hours last night googling this and found out that the idea of " alcubierre drive" is still being debated and if I'm honest I have to admit the people who are on the side of "time travel" seem to have the best argument. In all honesty I'm pretty sure this is above my pay grade, I apologise for being so sure and flippant about it.

I have given several solutions to the premise, you have the possibility of generation ships, machine probes that make humans after they arrive at the system, some type of cold sleep to name but a few. Why do you dismiss these possibilities out of hand?

This is true but it would seem to point to a 4 bond chauvinism, life "not as we know it" could and probably would be so totally different that our current paradigms would be broken. But the rarity remains and the lack of boron compounds of oxygen that are gaseous remind me of the problems silicon has in the same vein. Of course other possible breathing gases remain but are so unusual that even speculating on them is difficult, hydrogen being the one speculated on the most.

It's true that one sighting debunked does not make for all sightings debunked. There are plenty of sightings that were "debunked" and that debunking was bumbled so badly that anyone with an ounce of skepticism would see the problems. Still doesn't make it ET but it does suggest a pattern of debunking that is deceptive at best and at worst a planned cover up of something extraordinary.

Both of you are of course correct, our current understanding of warp travel make them impractical if not impossible but IMHO I think it's a bit premature to "wipe warp drive" off the table. The hypothesis has changed greatly in the short time since it was proposed. Originally it needed more energy that is contained in the entire universe to work. The metrics have changed several times and I see no reason to say they cannot change further as research continues. I'm not saying warp drive will be possible but nothing would indicate it will not change further as research continues. If nothing else warp drive would be a great way to travel slower than light, this would open up the entire solar system in a way that we only dream of today. Also there are "warp drives" that do not use negative energy, in fact there are a great many different variations on the concept of warp drives.

That is not an answer, I could say the same thing when asked could they visit us. No they do not, physics is a non answer, it begs the question "why do physics prevent or allow" what ever the question is.

Really? A UAP landing near a school was debri from a satellite reentry?

Unless you are thinking of instantaneous communication this is not true. Travel takes a finite amount of time, you could not travel back to a time at your launch site before you launched. https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?list=PLh5Kb8DlWT5h8diVqIFyASeFv0XbWn4KA 06:53 This video explains why ftl is time travel but I think i see a problem with the explanation, they assume that a signal can be sent and that a STL ship could hear it and signal back at FTL speeds. I think if the FTL signal is impossible due to time travel because of the ship signaling backwards in time if you eliminate the FTL signal and have a FTL space craft that is casually isolated from the universe when traveling that paradox is avoided. Many versions of warp bubble travel state that the space craft is casually isolated.

You keep saying that aliens cannot or would not visit us, can you defend that statement?

I would suggest you have little to no knowledge about evolution or the forces that drive it. Evolution is a fact, it happens, irreducible complexity is a creationist fallacy that was proved wrong in court in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trail. While random mutations do occur they do not drive evolution. Since this is off topic i will not give a detailed defense of the science behind evolution.

The warp bubble isolates you from the rest of the universe while its on. Of course that makes steering a bit of thrill!

If I understand the current crop of FTL warp drives that are being proposed the spacecraft is causally isolated from the rest of the universe and this stops the time travel aspects.

Rare Earth was a great read but the concept has been shown to be a bit harsh if not completely irrelevant. Most of the rare earth parameters have been shown not to be so rare. The formation of the moon was one of the parameters that impressed me when I read the book but studies have shown that such large impacts are quite common and all the solar systems inner planets probably experienced such impacts. The formation of a large moon is probably not particularly rare.

Hmmm... Starts at 01:20 or so to 03:00 ... no evidence of course only my blind speculation based on what is possible.

One quarter impulse is supposed to be 1/4 the speed of light, much better than what we can do now... but the point that "impulse drive" is fantasy as described in Star Trek stands Impulse drive in Star Trek is supposed to be a fusion drive that most of the exhaust and waste heat is expelled into subspace. NASA on the other hand has a different idea; https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/02/03/ultimate-ev-engine-this-nasa-funded-space-drive-requires-no-fuel https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2018_Phase_I_Phase_II/Mach_Effect_for_In_Space_Propulsion_Interstellar_Mission/

It does seem to point out the versatility of Boron and in fact Boron does rival carbon in its versatility but Boron has some extreme drawbacks. The rarity of Boron is probably the most significant, free Boron is explosive in an oxygen atmosphere and Boron "oxide?" is a solid at the temps water is liquid but it does dissolve in water (makes your laundry squeaky clean as well) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry This may be interesting; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265737139_Alternative_Chemistries_of_Life https://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/A/alternative_forms_of_life.html https://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/B/boron-based_life.html

Most if not all of these technologies would require what is known as "Clark Tech" or from our point of view "magic" I have my doubts that a star trek like leap in technologies is in our future at any point. The entire premise of Star Trek was the discovery of a new layer of reality, warp tech, subspace tech, and sometimes they talk about hyperspace, that sort of reminds me of the leap mankind made after the discovery of magnetism and electricity the control or use of both. Our entire civilization is based on electricity and magnetism, I have severe doubts we will ever make such a discovery again or that there even is one waiting to be discovered.

Yeah the good old days, hypography has gone down hill rather drastically.

Not necessarily, aliens of one or several species could inhabit the Kuiper belt living in O'Neil type habitats or many other configurations. They could indeed avoid planets for many reasons but a planet with a burgeoning civilization may tempt specialists to observe us, especially since they inhabit our solar system. This idea of inhabiting many planetary systems could suggest that the galaxy is full of intelligent life but planets would be avoided this still leaves room for colonization of the galaxy and nearly every star would be a candidate, not just stars with habitable planets. There are elephants that have taught themselves to speak human languages. On in Korea speak Korean, maybe when we taught apes to use sign language we were picking the wrong species.