Moontanman

If the formation of life was a completely random thing then the probability of life occurring would be infinitesimally small, almost but not quite impossible. Fortunately we now know it isn't a random chance, not only does order tend to arise from chaos but in the presence of excess energy chemistry tends to form more and more complex chemical structures.

Your link is meaningless to this discussion, did you really mean to show a link to the word scowl? Russia and Africa have small amounts of religious activity? Africa is a hot bed of religion with American evangelicals going there and intensionally stirring up a culture of hatred against homosexuals by claiming out right that homosexuals are advocating molesting children and those same religious workers supporting the murder of homosexuals. Russia is deeply religious, always was, even when it was officially against the law, China I have no information on. Marriage is a religious tradition but religion is not part of the push to ban gay marriage? Are you sure you want to make that claim? Don't be insulting Jackson, we've been on opposite sides of this argument for along time across two forums at least. You know i am not a hit run poster who doesn't read the threads... if there are churches who are willing to marry homosexuals then why shouldn't they be allowed to marry? Right now they can't even get the secular version of marriage, marriage is not an additional right, many homosexuals have deep religious feelings, i personally don't understand why but they do, i go to a church that the congregation is mostly homosexual. if homosexuals could go to the JP and get the license and be united under the law you would have a point but they can't. i will state my point again so it is clear, as long as a church is willing to marry homosexuals then why not? You make a good point with the secular version of marriage but homosexuals can't get that either so your point does not hold water... You know I'm not implying that heterosexuals are abnormal Jackson, i never in any way shape or form suggested that, no activism is not necessarily the act of imposing your views on others, i don't care what others think, i want homosexuals to have the same rights as any other human being. If this is forcing my views on others then so is asserting racism is wrong or asserting any other rights as a human being are being denied to some one. Directed at you personally? no, it is directed at the people who support denying other humans of their basic rights simply because you feel like it's wrong instead of being able to show specific reasons why it's harmful to society in some way. My point would be that the religious do not have to defend their position all they have to do is evoke the vague emotional feelings of gays being wrong and trying to stuff their views down the throats of others when all they are really asking is the same basic human dignity anyone else has.

Is it any worse than the other side claiming gay marriage is damaging to society in some vague but horrific way?

What public perception are you talking about Jackson? Sodomy in the law has always included if not primarily based on same gender sexual relations and to protect women from their husbands? please clarify this for me because i have no idea what you are talking about, before recent years a man practically owned his wife and could rape her with no fear of any prosecution by law The anti sodomy laws laws are religious in nature, these sex laws have always been driven by religion and what is wrong with gaining the same rights and privileges as heterosexuals? Why shouldn't homosexuals have the same recognition, benefits, and credibility? Why is wanting the same rights as everyone else a bad thing? you are not making any pojnt except "i think it's wrong so it should be" No one is trying to impose anything on you or anyone else Jackson, homosexuality is normal for homosexuals. But why was it the law of the land? Religion! And oh yes those people do want to change the law of the land and yes they do gain benefits and again I'll ask you why shouldn't homosexuals have the exact same rights and benefits as every one else? Why? Homosexuals aren't trying to force anything on you, they are not trying to force you to have sex with a person of the same gender and BTW homosexuality is not a choice.

I disagree, it is going on, right now as I type this, but you see no huge public out cry! Why? Because it's sanctioned by religion. people are loath to restrict anyones religion. Because it's males having sex with females and you can't be opposed to either one of those things because God says it's ok.... BTW I have no problem with plural marrage as long as it's informed consenting adults but that's another thread... What would that point be other than religious values? Homosexuals getting married will destroy marriage! How? Well just because it's wrong! Why is is it wrong? Because it will destroy marriage! Why? Because it's wrong to force Churches to marry gays! But there are already Churches that will marry Gay couples! No! it will destroy marriage! But how! My pastor, preacher, priest, etc says it will! Then your pastor, preacher or priest shouldn't marry people! But it's wrong for any gay person to marry another person of the same gender! Why? Because some of us think it's wrong! The same circular argument was used to stop inter racial marriage for a very long time, just because you or me or anyone else thinks gay marriage is wrong is not good enough reason to stop it, there should a real reason other than "I don't like the idea of it!" The argument just goes in circles and the basis for it is simply the disenfranchisement of gay people, just like no real reason could be given for the opposition to interracial marriage other than i think it's wrong and yes religion was used extensively to try and convince people that whites and blacks should not be married as well. So far I all the arguments against boil down to I don't want it to be allowed, simple emotions, nothing more, in no way shape or form could gay marriage damage our society! Makes my skin crawl to think of what they do in the dark is not a good reason, God doesn't like it is not a good reason, all it really amounts to is intellectual gay bashing, deny them their basic rights as human beings because I don't like them, at one time it was used against the Native Americans, blacks, Irish, Italians, and any and all groups that were disapproved of due to being different... just because the majority doesn't like one group does not give them the right to deny them their basic human rights.... I don't see this as a Gay straight issue, I see it as a human issue, nothing more nothing less...

Jackson33 do you really think that sodomy being acceptable has anything to do with people practicing sodomy? I've seen pornography from before the turn of the last century that portrays sodomy of all types, men and women, men and men, women and women. What was really going on was a small part of society, religious in nature, who lay awake at night worried that somehow somewhere some one was having a good time and thought they had the right to tell everyone else what they could and could not do, sodomy has always been acceptable to society, no one wanted to admit it due to the wrath of the religious few (who did it in secrete as well) but it went on in a very wide spread and popular manner, it has always been practiced by society. It has just been condemned by the religious who thought they had the right to dictate the behavior of others. Banning sexual behavior between consenting adults is totally the result of religion, not the result of very few people doing something that was seen to be wrong by most people. Gay marriage in no way should be dictated by the few who are not interested in marrying some one of the same gender no more than the few who think oral sex is icky should dictate to everyone else not to do it.... I would like to comment on another thing I keep seeing come up in this and in other threads about this subject, the marriage is one man one woman rule that some keep harping on. I noticed there weren't any protesters in the street to object to the Mormon sects who have many wives often under age. A few did say it was wrong but it's still tolerated. It's still going on, no huge press from Utah to combat polygamy in their own state much less others. I think it's disingenuous as it can be, no one is saying that polygamy is going to destroy marriage... No thats ok, because it's one man and several little girls? Forcing little girls into sexual servitude is ok as long as it's done with Gods consent? This whole argument is nothing but gay bashing at the intellectual level instead of hunting them down and kicking their ass in a dark ally after you force them to have sex with you.

Here is one for Mooeypoo DJ, Trucks have nuts? I didn't know trucks had gender...

i thought he smelled familiar

I used to have one on my Jeep that said, "If I had wanted a Hummer I'd have asked your sister"

Just how dead were they? Road kill from three weeks ago or resuscitated after a few seconds of not breathing?

Whoa! Oil spills, maybe i should a collected those pamphlets so I'd know when it's time to party like it's 1999 or maybe 2012

Sadly scholars are not the people in pulpits asserting the end times as described in the bible are coming true, I've heard many of the things in revelations being claimed as proof of our us living in The End Times. The assertion of The End Times is one of the most often repeated threats used to keep the flock into line, little kids seem to be most terrified by these claims. There used to be a large series of small pamphlets that were passed out by fundamentalist religious groups making claims about the end of the world being near as described in Revelations but the idea of global warming being aligned with Revelations of 16:8 doesn't seem to be as popular as the rest of Revelations semi quoted in the little pamphlets often left in restrooms across the country, the idea of our civilization being destroyed by revelations 16:8 doesn't seem to come up while other somewhat less obvious ones often do...

Is Revelations 16:8 a prediction by the Bible of global warming?

I genuinely hope that you can understand that if you have a friend who is gay the best thing you can do for him is be his friend. Being gay cannot be fixed, be his friend treat him like you would any other friend, support him when everyone else is rejecting him and to put it simply "Be a friend", not a judge of his behavior. Being gay cannot be fixed any more than being heterosexual can be fixed but you can hurt him terribly by trying to fix him....

What do you mean animals only? Animals evolved form simpler organisms, why the perceived disconnect?

I think about loosing weight a lot, usually while I'm drinking a beer and eating chips.... But this might help... http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml Hey! Why can't i use brackets any more?

Here in the South Eastern USA I see a lot of cars that would almost fall apart with out their stickers, a couple of my favs KILL YOUR TELEVISION! and of course "My kid just kicked the crap out of your honor student"

I am rereading "Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert M. Pirsig. I had forgotten how much liked it, it's one of my favs for sure..

I think it's more like knowledge is spreading rather than intelligence. I think in some limited ways animals can get ideas for tools from watching us, I don't expect to see a non tool using animal suddenly show up with a birch bark canoe but in the wild elephants will break off limbs and use them that way. I saw it on a nature show is the best I can do as proof.... but it seems quite reasonable so using a stick is not unnatural fro an elephant... Yes there are many extinct species that used tools, some of them were quite advanced as stone age tools go but they are all hominids. I think it's possible that some bits of knowledge by mimicry might cross over but only to the ability of the animal to use this, far too little time has passed for animals to do much more than use the brains the have now, growing bigger ones seems unlikely on a wide scale for sure....

No, the brain surgeon should be more knowledgeable about the brain and how to fix it but the Car mechanic should be more knowledgeable about cars and how to repair them. I see no reason one should be more intelligent than the other...

I think the idea that society expects you to raise your children responsively is a joke, The West Burro Baptist Church is a prime example, as are most illicit drug control laws. This is just another attempt to appear to be responsible while actually doing nothing....

The reality of this is that the further you go outside any scientists area of expertise the further you get away from their opinion being any better than anyone else who has no special knowledge of that particular subject. So it makes sense that 65% of all scientists might disagree with evolution but scientists who's expertise actually include the subject of evolution go closer to 99% It's like asking a brain surgeon what the funny noise is under the hood of my car and thinking his opinion is as good as the opinion of the mechanic who specializes in that particular car.... BTW anyone who thinks that creationists are less than respected here should go to a creationist site and try to assert science... good luck with that....

Ummm because no one alive knows what Muhammad looked like? No one is allowed to even speculate so no shower curtain mold Muhammad's?

Atoms have seven layers? The earth has seven layers? Or does the earth have seven major layers? The earth could have many distinct layers like an onion. Your whole perception of reality is going to change if one more layer is found? This makes no more sense than any other religion that tries to assert reality by cherry picking science data. How about the Earth's atmosphere? The atmosphere is distinctly part of the earth and consists of several layers as well, the layers are just arbitrary measurements for convenience. Where do the 7 layers of heaven come in? Seven is not some sort of magical number and I am sure that Mohammad was just using the mystical symbols he was familiar with.... Oh yeah, how about the inner inner core? And then there is the Mohorovic disconuity....

The creatures with the largest genome also happen to the be creatures who are under the most attack by viruses. The amoeba are under constant attack by viruses and continuously take in and emit large amounts of viral material. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091230113210.htm