Moontanman

Just as soon the people in charge stop hand waving away evidence that would convince them of almost anything else. I don't know that any UFOs are aliens, I do know that ball lightings is assumed to be a thing and was for centuries (due to eyewitnesses only) yet until quite recently not even photos existed. And of course everyone knew rocks could not fall from the sky... There are, UAP''s lets call them, that simply defy rational explanation and only hand waving away at least some of the available data allows the status quo to continue.

The theroize was in how is was shaped not if it existed... 02:50 to 04:10

I've acquired new technology since our last encounter that makes assimilation more difficult... Seriously a huge part of my argument comes from this Video or series of videos. If anyone want to watch them before any discussion of colonizing Oort clouds.

Lets say we disagreed or talked past each other at the least... Communicate in what way? with what? Masers or lasers would have to be pointed very close to right at us to be detected..

My idea is that aliens are already here, slow boats from one stars oort cloud to another in rotating habitats where they live in lieu of planets. They avoid gravity wells and take thousands of years to travel slowly from one chunk of icy debris to another. sometimes, if they have the need and the icy chunk is big enough, they build another colony and continue on. Stumbling upon a planetary system with aboriginal life probably triggers some of them to investigate like we do when we find a new island with primitive humans. How can you get scientific evidence of something that we can't get a piece of but we can get radar images, photographs, and video not to mention hundreds of multiple independent eyewitnesses. Even damaged equipment from cars to airplanes. Do you really expect such a civilization drop off a piece of the aircraft by accident? I lived under the landing pattern of a medium size airport, air force one often did touch and goes there. Jets would come so low then landing I could see the pilots very clearly. A few times Harrier Jets floated by do slow and low I could hit have them with a rock! Never, not once, did a piece of an airplane fall off! How do you investigate a phenomenon like that? J Allen Hynek said the air force was hiding evidence that absolutely proved at last a few UFOs were extraterrestrial.

Ultimately deciding ahead of time something is bunk is not science...

Not true, in fact with technology like ours we could travel to other stars, you need to stop watching star wars... In the too weird category! https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2014/01/14/did-iranian-fighters-battle-ufos/#26f5c1791a32

I can make a very credible argument as to how and why aliens might be nearby... near enough to be interested in us, but that is not what this is about...

I number of accredited scientists investigate UFO sightings at the risk of their academic standings, J. Allen Hynek was one of them. Lots of times? Then it should be easy for you to name a few serious scientific studies... Again no such study has ever been done, a study should not begin with the conclusion that UFOs are bs then try to support that conclusion. The Condon Report is a prime example. Quite the contrary the cover up is obvious, Many scientists have supported this, J Allen Hynek stopped working for the US Air Force when he began to realise that no investigation was going onely an effort to explain away any sighting in anyway possible often by ridicule and nonsense. So say you, a great many others, scientists included would disagree. Now I would be the first to say the cover up might not involve little green men but the is nonetheless a coverup. The Military just admitted to a 22 million dollar study that didn't exist until it was exposed... The was absolutely no evidence rocks fell fro the sky until someone investigated, there was no evidence that a needle floating in water had any reason to investigate either.

This attitude is exactly what the problem consists of, the immediate dismissal and ridicule of anyone who has a sighting. well done... well done... My point is that a scientific, neutral, investigation has never been done. The first ever military investigation was pretty good, they came to an odd conclusion, interplanetary space craft, but that was more than a bit flawed but at least it was honest. Yes, I am claiming a cover up! Yes I think an organization, a fair and scientific investigation that goes on and doesn't stop because one sighting can be explained. An accredited university of excellent reputation should have a department dedicated to this. UFOs might be technology from some place else but the answer just might be more interesting than that and involve natural phenomena we are totally unaware of or even involve aspects of the human mind we currently have no clue about. Ta say UFOs are nothing but some redneck hillbilly with an anal fetish is insulting on a level with racism. I'm a hillbilly are you a clueless flatlander? Want to exchange insults all day or read the OP and either react or go on because you have personally insulted me...

Why? And you need to start another thread in this one that is off topic...

Seriously, we had the entire leadership, practically the entire army of ISIS in one area, a single mirv could have taken them out completely! No one thinks that might have been a good idea? Hell I was surprised Saudi Arabia didn't catch a few MIRVs after 911 until I realized the agenda of the Gov had nothing to do with with who did it... 528 nuclear weapons have been detonated above ground, mostly in desert areas to minimise the fallout, why not a couple more? Scared of Russia? Really? Do you really think Russia would have retaliated for a few desert terrorists? Bush promised shock and awe and only delivered a second rate fireworks show... Don't make promises you can't keep...

My mention of a nuclear strike was in jest, sort of, well before ISIS was anything but a pissing contest in a very small area I suggested on another forum that a real shock and awe attack would cure the problem. At this time ISIS wasn't much more than a side note. Having paid attention to how these things work I was sure ISIS was going to be a much bigger problem unless some was done now and that something has to be extreme. On "another forum" I suggested this scenario. A nuclear attack sub was submerged in striking range of the ISIS stronghold. Most if not all leaders of ISIS were there. a simple launch of a 500 kiloton war heard would be enough to wipe out ISIS and shock and awe anyone else who was thinking of bad things. The desert was a perfect place to target, little fallout would occur, and the effect would save hundreds of thousands of live if not millions of live. I was nearly kicked out of the forum such a suggestion even though It was only a discussion of a possibility. Much to my dismay ISIS was allowed to spread and stopping then resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians and military not to mention the rape and enslavement of women and pillage of the area in ways that will never be recovered from. War is never an idea that should be taken lightly and always results in unexpected casualties but sometimes a decisive strike can prevent a war that kills millions, an armed intervention would have taken months and resulted in the lives of thousands being lost. A nuclear strike in the desert would have resulted in a crater or a few square kilometers of glass and a few hundred humans who were a waste of skin being killed not to mention real shock and awe of the rest of the people who were thinking of taking over...

Close, our chains were much smaller in in Diameter but they worked with that trick rather well..

At the beginning one small tactical nuke could have killed them all at once and prevented ISIS from gaining any power and saved tens of thousands of lives. No guts no glory!

That was neat! kinda reminded me of when I worked for dupont, we wore ear plugs and had to get a new set every day or so.They had a narrow ball chain that had hooks on one end so you could make a small loop to connect the ear plugs to your belt. Over time we would collect several pounds of chain by connecting all of them end to end. Then we would take 20 or 30 fee of chain and suspend them from the mezzanine and whirl them around to make all sorts of odd shapes in the air. sometimes they looked like they were violating some sort of law of physics as they whirled in the air looking like a 3d wave suspended in the air. I know, bored men on midnight shift...

Introducing invasive species is what humans do! We intentionally and unintentionally bring a gaggle of invasive species with us wherever we go. It's completely natural for us to do so. I can't see any problem with eliminating an invasive species as long as we are using the term correctly. Invasive suggests the species is a problem, some introduced species do not become a problem, but some become intense problems, feral pigs is an example, and carp. Carp have been around so long that many people do not know they are an invasive species nor is the damage they do as obvious as the damage feral pigs manage to inflict in the environment... State and federal wildlife management tend to go with the invasive equals not providing a money producing resource. Florida is a great example, fish accidentally introduced by the aquarium fish hobby are invasive but fish introduced by fish and game for the pleasure of anglers are said to be well established. Personally I am a proponent of introducing non native fish that are in trouble in their natural range into streams here that are recovering from devastation and have open niches in their habitat that a non native fish that is going extinct could fill here. The dwarf sturgeon is one that I have championed actively to be released in the Poca River in WV. Before they became completely extinct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_sturgeon The chinese paddlefish was one I thought should be introduced into the Mississippi River: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_paddlefish The chinese river dolphin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji And the chinese alligator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_alligator The list of endangered species is long and sad and their introduction into friendlier habitats is controversial swinging from those who want to rewild north america with african animals to those who think that no species should be introduced under any circumstances...

Yes but did you twirl the freshly beheaded chickens in the correct spin 2 direction under the full moon while reciting Einstein's special theory of relativity in base 3 hopping on one leg while your dog howls? I did it almost correct but I dropped a decimal point and my tesla showed up on my carport when I was 12. Some mysterious driverless truck showed up and towed it away... Amazing how that memory just popped up in my mind so suddenly...

Yes but it was a big dog, a very very big dog, the biggest dog we had and it chased him down the longest deepest tunnel of all and it ran fast faster than the other dogs...

J. Allen Hynek was the US Air Force's chief debunker he was semi famous for saying a particular UFO sighting was swamp gas back in the 60's Hynek eventually became one of the chief supporters of the ET theory of at least some UFOs after he realised how the Air Force was using him and his credentials to debunk instead of investigate UFOs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Allen_Hynek

I hadn't seen that one! pretty good, even Allen J Hynek agreed with me, swamp gas was his finest hour...

We have, in fact the up tick has been extreme but all are dismissed as too good to be true, photoshop makes any modern UFO photos suspect immediately, and i agree with that... Modern Radar picks them up as well and modern pilots still report them... Again, not trying to prove anything, just trying to figure out the accuracy of the handling of this one report. As soon as scientific evidence is available I would love to see that. I would like to hear the plausible natural explanations for the visual aspects of this sighting, including the jet fighter than was surrounded by the glows. The air force lumped the entire sighting under atmospheric inversions, multiple independent visual, multiple independent radar, interaction with military and civilian aircraft all under the heading of temperature inversion. I think this was a stretch to say the least. BTW, phone lines were jammed by civilians not aware of the military involvement or the radar operators. In fact that was one reason the air force went bananas on this one thinking this could interfere if a soviet attack occurred... Strange, I have seen videos from dash board cams and hi resolution drone cams and personal cams, in this age of photo shop these become suspect immediately and rightly so. This one comment by Klass pretty much says it all: A personal attack by on of the famous debunkers and a statement that while accurate is highly misleading since a decline doesn't mean they vanished and in fact if true, means that modern radar sightings of which there are many, should hold more weight yet they evidently do not. Possibly those dumb radar operators are still with us... What I am trying to show here is the idea that the air force never really did anything but push pelacanism as hard as they could to explain away any sighting they could not easily show a reason for... BTW I've seen Venus dance around the sky during an inversion, which happen quite regularly where I live and to mistake it for a UFO is ludicris...

Ok guys here it is, I know this is probably the wrong forum, I am so bad at choosing that, be that as it may, What I want to discuss here is not if the following sighting was real or not. This happened in 1952 and the subsequent years have resulted in at least some disagreement on the details. However, was the eyewitness and other evidence correctly handled or was it as i assert mishandled for whatever reason. If you comment one way or another please let us know why you think so. The Air force simply not knowing what the hell was happening is probably enough for them to have dropped the ball on this but here we go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident Were the Airforce explanations reasonable when compared to the sightings? There is quite at the link!

Yes, this is true, but you would be amazed at the number of people who confess falsely to crimes as well. Let's stick to how much weight eyewitness testimony should have. I'm still not sure I want to start another thread about a particular event yet. So far this one is interesting by itself... I am thinking i should have included some question about how we judge different testimony that while eyewitness, is still quite different in form. maybe I do need to start the new thread, lets see if this one generates any more ideas. So far it doesn't seem to be going my way at all...

That is the direction, data point, I am trying to figure out how many data points, if any, constitutes a higher level of evidence than just one. Do you give more credence to the victim than someone who simply saw the crime?