Moontanman

I would suggest you read the OP again my friend..

Then you are hijacking the thread dude, this thread is about veganism, not vegetarianism...

No, hydroponics is not just very expensive the things you can grow with it are also limited. Hydroponics are being used widely to grow lots of very expensive crops of limited energy density. Growing fish along with the plants help these figures quite a bit but it's not what we are talking about is it? I read it, it was quite one sided, being a official research paper doesn't give it the power of the word of god dude.

They like the nightlife, they like to boogie! Sorry I couldn't help it. I know this is true of deer, hunting pressure has driven them to a largely nocturnal lifestyle in much of their range... not to mention the whole boogie factor..

Hydroponics? Really? Have you ever grown anything legal hydroponically? Do you know why this question is relevant? No more rude than contant baseless assertions backed up by a fluff piece. This is not an issue that is one dimensional, far too many sides have to be examined and things like cutting down forests to grow crops, rice, one of the largest world wide crops being a very poor choice for the environment is a big factor. Your "link" doesn't deeply address much of the environmental factors involved or the problems of energy density of food. Back at you dude... PETA forever!

Yes! beat me to it! Much of our meat is grown in areas where farming vegetables is either impractical or the land is unsuitable for anything but raising meat animals. Humans cannot eat grass, brush, or trees. Growing plants in areas like deserts or areas with a growing season that is too short precludes growing crops but meat animals do well in these places. This is not a right/wrong issue and eating vegan in a healthy way is expensive eve now. Bring up the number of people looking to eat vegan the prices go up faster than production of suitable veggies. Are you going to suggest we raise our children vegan next? Children do not do well on vegan diets, their caloric needs are higher, babies and toddlers have died when raised on a strict vegan regime. Humans are not vegetarians, veganism is an option that has only been possible in the last few thousand years, before that we ate meat, lots of it. Humans are healthier eating some meat at least. We evolved to eat meat, we exchanged a digestive system that could effectively digest plants for a more meat based diet so we could support larger brains. Even our closest relatives, chimps, eat meat... unless you are going to say insects don't count and they do hunt, kill, and eat small animals including other primates. http://theconversation.com/is-a-vegetarian-diet-really-more-environmentally-friendly-than-eating-meat-71596 https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/veganism-environment-veganuary-friendly-food-diet-damage-hodmedods-protein-crops-jack-monroe-a8177541.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/06/health/vegetarian-diet-conversation/index.html https://qz.com/749443/being-vegan-isnt-as-environmentally-friendly-as-you-think/

I think we have two questions to answer there, will veganism be necessary and or is it morally superior. It's late and i have to get some sleep but I'll try to dig up the numbers that show that being vegan uses more land to feed even less people than we currently use. The moral basis for veganism is questionable as well but possibly more because morals are subjective and i see no objective way to say eating meat is immoral.

I'd hate to think how mortifying it would be to get an award from the same people who thought Mother Teresa deserved one...

You cannot be so naive to think that food costs in India are in anyway similar to those in the US or that india doesn't have a very high rate of malnutrition...

You forget that quite a bit of land is not suitable for the growing of food crops, humans cannot eat grass nor can we eat many of the things we feed our animals. Veganism, and I do remember your thread, would require a huge amount of land be farmed to grow amounts of things that simply cannot be grown in enough amounts to feed everyone. Yes some of us can currently, if we want, eat only plants but it's very expensive to do so. I would starve to death if I had to only eat plants, I can't afford the cost, we simply cannot grow enough complete foods to feed the entire planet or even a small portion of it...

I'd have to ask why you would think veganism would be necessary or moral...

Depends on your religion and how seriously you take ancient holy books really. A large number of people seem to have no problem with it...

If not a water wold then how about an ice locked moon like Europa? Instead of digging down they could dig up! the surface of Europa is connected to the surface via subduction of ice, that ice contains oxygen created from Jupiter's radiation belts. Enough in fact by some estimates the oceans of Europa should have as much or more oxygen than our own oceans. Could octopi be a colonization effort from Europa that went wrong? More importantly could such under ice creatures manage to break through to the surface in a useful way?

The need to control women is a huge problem in our society, why would a strong, confident, intelligent man want a weak, stupid, submissive woman to have his children. Kinda like eugenics in reverse.

Agreed, any relationship based on beauty or hotness is doomed to fail. Beauty or hotness always fails eventually, only inner beauty can continue, if 43 years of marriage has taught me anything that is it..

Thanks guys, I was thinking along the lines of a 500' tower, insulated from the ground and using a much more efficient collector than a single wire, maybe a large conducting sphere on top of the tower and a much thicker wire leading to the surface. It just looked a bit more doable than a diverting a small stream with a damn and a small hydro generator. I think a thunder storm mich be more than a bit of a problem as well... I think maybe the 200 volt potential at 2 meters may have impressed me a bit more than it should have...

Some bacteria actually eat perchlorates, I guess the concentration is important. https://www.livescience.com/28444-ancient-life-breathes-rocket-fuel.html

Well i guess it was inevitable... https://www.theonion.com/world-eating-leviathan-awoken-from-500-million-year-slu-1827928509

This video claims that electricity can be extracted from the air. I'm not sure how useful this would be but it looks like it should work. The video is short and explains the idea in some detail. Could this concept be used to generate electricity in a way that would be useful?

You are asking people who do not know so they react with anger, no one who has a clue would ever say such a stupid thing...

Now you've met yet another one What does conservative and liberal have to do with belief in a diety? I take no such labels, in fact i would suggest that anyone who marches in step with a label is nothing but gullible...

No cell phone back then!