sidharath

Potential energy is energy, so sign is not of much importance. But when sign is given it indicates the process of energy change. When a particle moves away from attractive force energy has to be spent for its motion or energy is gained accumulated later. That's why sign of potential energy is positive. When particle is moving in the same direction as the force energy is being liberated. Therefore negative sign is there. In case of SHO when particle reaches extreme position by overcoming attractive force it has accumulated +E energy or potential energy is positive. When particle starts moving from extreme position toward mean position it is to liberate same amount of energy,. That is why with change in direction in motion, +E will change to -E. When the particle is moving mean position at any point its potential energy is negative, which indicates that is by the time it reaches mean position that much amount of energy will be liberated.. When the particle is moving towards mean position the liberated potential energy is being converted to equal amount of kinetic energy. therefore at no point, sum of kinetic energy and potential energy cannot be zero. In case of a electron if its moves from infinity towards positive charge, when it reaches at any point its potential energy is negative. Which indicates that it has liberated that much amount of energy. same is the case of SHO. When the particle is moving towards mean position it is liberating energy so sign of potential energy is -, while inverse is the case when particle is moving towards mean postion. I dont think if there is any wrong in my presentation of view about the sign of potential energy. I can prove my point with equation or graphs also.

dear swansont i give here very simple example showing that though numerical value of potential energy remains same there is change in sign with direction of motion 'There is set rule for calculating magnitude and sign of potential energy , sign of potential energy is not arbitrary.Can you solve Schrodinger equation by taking electrostatic potential energy positive instead of negative .It is taken as negative because it is . Rules laid cannot be broken at will. if the mass m is moving down at height h potential energy is -mgh but if it is moving up at the same height potential energy is +mgh so there is change in sign with change in direction. one way defining potential energy is U(final)-U(initial)=change in kinetic energy.suppose oscillating particle is at the extreme position with maximum potential energy and is about to move towards mean position. because it is moving towards mean position potential energy is-E using the above relation o-(-E)= positive kinetic energy if potential at the extreme position when the particle is about to move towards mean position is taken as positive+E the sign of kinetic energy will be negative which is wrong.i think that above discussion conclusively proves that in oscillator when particle moves towards mean position sign is negative .it is positive when the particle moves away from mean position

dear studiot thank you very much indeed for your reply. .My conclusion that sign of potential is postive when the particle is moving away and negative when the particle is moving towards mean position is based on some basic relations . I request you to go through that and tell me whether i am right or wrong. U(final)-U(initial)=-W U and W are potential energy and work.When the particle is moving away from mean position and it is at x W=-1/2kx^2 potential energy at mean position is 0 therefore U=+1/2kx^2 . If the particle is moving towards mean position that is value of position x changes from x to o again W =-1/2kx^2 Work is calculated by using dot product U(final)-U(initial)=0-U(initial)=-W=1/2kx^2 therefore U(initial)=-1/2kx^2 or the sign of potential energy is negative when the particle is moving towards mean position. i shall be thankful to you if you point out where i have gone wrong in my contention that sign of potential changes with change in direction My contention is based on fundamentals . It is another matter that to get solution negative sign is ignored but you see potential energy sign is not always positive ,it changes with direction of motion.Am i right? Please allow me to give another example in support of my conclusion that sign of potential energy changes with change in direction.Suppose mass m is moving away from earth , when it is at height h potential energy is positive +mgh when it is moving down at height h potential energy is -mgh so there is change in sign with changed in directions. It is similar to oscillator where particle is moving alternatively in the opposite or same direction as that of restoring force and undergoes change in potential energy sign. please point out where i have gone wrong in my conclusion .You are at liberty to consider only positive sign while applying to Schrodinger equation to keep its general nature but actually it is not so . So that Schrodinger equation is applicable when the particle is moving towards mean position it should be modified as under (laplacian operator)psi+constant(E+V)psi=0 V is potential energy with negative sign .It shows that there are two schrodinger equations one when the particle is moving away from the mean position while other form given above is when the particle is moving towards mean position.

dear swansont i need sign of potential energy when potential is used in Schrodinger equation at basic level while equation is used to find out the energy of particle of mass m executing harmonic oscillation.Th basic equation is (laplacian operator)psi+constant(E-V)psi=0 V is potential energy. While using this equation to find out value of energy E attention has to be paid to sign of V, as in the case of hydrogen atom sign of V is negative due to attractive force. In case of particle of mass m executing oscillations there is motion towards and away from mean position. When the particle is moving away from mean position work has to be done on it because the direction of force is opposite to displacement therefore according established rules potential V has got positive sign .The solution of the above equation with positive V is acceptable because it can be reduced to Hermite polynomial.When oscillating particle is moving towards mean position the displacement and force being in the same direction particle is doing worK or potential is decreasing therefore sign of potential energy is negative . When V is put as negative in the equation solution is not acceptable because equation cannot be changed to HermitE Polynomial, which shows that application of eqtion is selective in nature . This is my contention. i solicit your views . This is my problem

dear swansont while applying Schrodinger equation sign of potential energy has to be taken into account . In case of SHO it is only at the extreme position that potential energy is positive when particle has reached there while moving away from mean position otherwise total energy is partly potential and kinetic energy. Potential energy at the mean position is zero. If usual norm of calculating potential enrgy is adopted it is seen that at any point it is with positive sign when particle is moving away from mean position but you say that positive potential energy is not possible but equation with acceptable solution is possible only with positive sign of potential .When the particle is moving towards mean position under attractive force hence particle is doing work which leads to negative potential energy but equation cannot be solved when sign is negative., this is my contention.According to me your reply is not quite to the point because you say that positive potential energy is not possible but solution is possible only when potential energy is positive. i request you to elaborate it.

When Schrodinger equation is applied to harmonic oscillator solution is possible when particle is moving away from mean position because of positive potential energy therefore equation can be changed to Hermite polynomial but when particle is moving towards mean position because of negative potential energy solution is not acceptable because it cannot be changed to Hermite poltnomial which shows selective nature of Schrodinger equation.Do you agree that there is some flaw in equation and it needs to changed

Please let me know if the sizes of electron and photon are point like or extended in nature and what evidences are there for the agreed upon size .Is there any way to compare the sizes?

everything in the universe has not got well defined boundary. so nothing is isolated .Even the electron is boundless,the well defined relation related to mass distribution is such that practically the whole mass of electron is confined to tiny volume of space and as the distance from centre increases the mass distribution density falls very rapidly and becomes so less that it can be ignored Ideally dimensions of everything that is manifested are infinite. No one knows what is electron, it is said that it is just a point. Assembly of large number of points result in point which shows that it impossible to get bulk form of matter .Actually electron and photon have got well defined internal structures with infinite dimensions.

the rider wave packet where energy associated with motion is stored is hybrid of mass and energy therefore it is better to name it mattenergon the name got from matter and energy. It is not particle in the traditional sense , it is there so long as carrier particle is moving.It is miniscule hybrid state mattenergon which exhibits dual while the carrier particle exhibits particle nature only. The whole of particle never exhibts dual nature. it cannot be denied that energy of particle in motion is more than particle at rest. Energy is something real and to accomodate something real mathematiclal equation will not serve the purpose, some real entity is needed The concept of mattenergon is so generaL that it can be used to explain double slit diffraction and solve energy problems of microscopic particles such as energy of rigiod rotor, simple harmonic osclllator etc by applying classical mechanics and doing away with Schrodinger equation which needs intimidating mathamatics to get very simple results . Moreover there is physical explanation for the results got. I have done it all in and much more in my book Evolution of Physical Laws.Sledge hammer is not needed to open treasure chest of knowledge,gentle knock is enough

is it correct to say that during motion of particle a temporary rider particle with dual nature is created while initial permanent particle exhibits particle like nature only ? By temporary particle i mean a wave packet where energy pumped in during imparting motion to the particle is accumulated,therefore it is not particle in normal sense but has got dual nature.

is it possible to derive exact orbital equation of motion of planet by using gravitational relative mass of planet?

I request you to clear my doubt why energy of hydrogen atom after its formation by the combination of electron and proton is not negative as predicated when traditional Schrodinger equation is solved because when electron moves towards proton after radiating half of the electrostatic potential energy the other half of the electrostatic potential energy is pumped into hydrogen atom in the form of kinetic energy of electron which leads to positive or more value of energy after formation of hydrogen atom Even Wheeler was uncomfortable with negative value When equation proposed by me is solved the energy value is positive but that energy is the total energy radiated when electron combines with proton to form ground state of hydrogen atom Please let me know if the proposed new form of Schrodinger is correct i don't challenge the traditional equation because somehow it works by using lot of math equation i have a way of solving all the energy problems of quantum mechanics without using Schrodingr equation The equation is useful but it is not the fundamental equation I have devised alternative mattenegon quantum mechanism in my book where i have discussed hydrogen atom completely along with quantum numbers without using Schrodinger equation

when traditional Schrodinger equation is solved energy of hydrogen atom comes to be negative and hence hydrogen atom is expected to be stable but actually it is not so because hydrogen atom spontaneously combines with another atom to form, hydrogen atom. i leave intricacy of bond formation ,my explanation is based on energetics .In reality energy of hydrogen atom increases after formation by the combination of electron and proton because half of liberated electrostatic potential energy is added up to atom as kinetic energy and this energy is the source of energy of bond formation i request you to let me know if i am wrong As for kinetic energy it is meaningless without trajectory which is denied by quantum mechanics

i wish to convey that when hydrogen atom emits electromagnetic energy ,what is the source of that energy because usually energy is radiated when there is change in rotational. vibrational energy etc The kinetic is meaningful only when electron moves in specified path but according to quantum mechanics the position of electron is governed by probability in hydrogen atom ,it may every where

Even if E(hydrogen atom)=V+K kinetic energy K is associated with motion but according to quantum mechanics orbital motion to the electron is denied in hydrogen atom, therefore, use of term kinetic energy is meaningless .There is no logic in putting E=V+K for . hydrogen atom. if quantum mechanics concept is considered The basic equation on which one of the SIMPLEST derivation of Schrodinger equation is based is contrary to concept of quantum mechanic I request to enlighten me , and point out where i have gone wrong E(radiated)=E(final)-E(initial) please can you explain what is the source of radiated energy

please excuse me for my poor english, still it coneys but i mean to say. As for the relation V= E +kinetic energy , please . explain where i have gone wrong .The relation is based on energetics. E is not the energy of hydrogen atom as i have explained, it is the total energy radiated out by the electron as it moves towards proton to form hydrogen atom The source of radiation emitted by hydrogen atom is V, the electrostatic potential energy liberated as electron moves towards proton. i shall be thankful if you point out the error . In relation E=V+kinetic energy E is taken as energy of hydrogen after its formation by the combination electron and proton Again i request you to study the relation proposed by me after taking into account the significance E and V The significance E is different from than in the traditional relation

suppose an electron is moving towards proton to form hydrogen atom and when it reaches certain distance from proton V electrostatic potential energy is liberated One part of potential energy is radiated carrying energy E while the remaining part is retained as kinetic energy therefore applying conservation energy law V=E+kinetic energy E here is the radiated energy using the above relation in combination with de brogllie wave equation and wave equation for stationary waves Schrodinger equation can be derived but with difference that last term involving( E-V) is negative if this equation is solved value of E is positive

thank you for guidance can QED explain diffraction and interferance of sound waves without using wave nature

i may be wrong if i say that how non existent dual nature shows diffraction because diffraction can not be explained without wave narure even macroscopic particles with internal structure produce diffraction sorry by macroscopic particles i mean big molecule

thank you for enlightening me you mean that mathematical equations when applied to unreal physical nature of system gives real results math is sly wizard

matter exhibits dual nature while in motion Is there internal change in matter while in motion:? is there any mechanism for it?i think there mus be some explanation

the rain is falling down vertically shold a man who is running hold umberalla vertically or in tilted posiotion

if E is binding energy ,what is( E-V)

in my opinion E is neither the energy of hydrogen atom nor that of electron It is the energy radiated as the electron starting from infinity occupies the specified slot in hydrogen atom

Is it correct to say that half of the electrostatic potential energy liberated as the electron moves towards proton to form hydrogen atom is radiated and the other half is used as kinetic energy of electron but it is contrary to quantum mechanics which denies orbital motion to electron Please clarify it