photon propeller

That's bullshit. God doesn't need to exist in order to explain the cause and effect phenomena we observe in the universe.

 

Actually the evidence shows that the Universe is completely mechanical and is governed by chemical reactions and that God just isn't needed anymore to explain any of this.

 

People by their very nature just don't want to die and they want life to get better for them so they invent God but this is just their wishful thinking and it doesn't actually prove that any God exists except in their selfish imagination.

Where do you think the energy of our universe came from? What was there before the singularity of the big bang? and before and before. Of course it is infinity. What is the purpose of life? The universe is governed by several physical constants, predetermined laws that govern cause and effect. Where do they come from? I believe they come from the supreme lawmaker, I believe the purpose is enlightenment, I know it is my choice. If you want your life to get better then assume responsibility for it and get of your duff and change it. I do not believe in an afterlife but know we are all forms of one energy and will return to that common denominator. Heaven or Hell is the plight of the living here on earth. Which will you make your home?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God?

 

Epicurean paradox

 

 

 

Again you make assertions that need to be backed up by evidence as though everyone agrees with you, please tell us how you know these things or back them up with evidence...

 

 

I'm not sure how this disagrees with what I said...

 

 

The biblical concept of Satan is exactly that.

Energy density has been calculated by WMAP's observations of the cosmic background radiation. Mean energy density is equal to critical density with a margin of error of .5%. This equals 5.9 protons per cubic centimeter. It is constant and is a fact. I told you nature was my evidence but you have yet to grasp the concept. The laws of physics are irrefutable and yet incomplete. The importance of God is that God is not only the lawmaker but attains the complete set of rules. Enlightenment is gained as these rules are understood.

So you are a deist. You think God does nothing now. He did the big bang and left it alone after that. If that is the case, is this 'Master' really important?Nature causes some of the worst death and destruction. No choice there. Best thing we can do is try to understand reality and prepare or avoid if possible. Master is not in the house, offers no help.That equilibrium appears to be nothing. The Universe is speeding towards nothingness.

I wont profess to know how much God interferes now but I will say that the more interference the less revealing to God the final outcome of our choices will be. Nature can be a beast, but we are all constituents of it. As far as the Universe, true at this time its expansion is accelerating, however, the energy density of our universe is constant, no matter what size it is it will never be "nothing." Energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed, the energy of God is infinite.

Cause and effect both abide by the predetermined laws of physics. Patterns are the result of cause and effect. The laws must be in place before cause and effect can occur. It is my assertion that the architect of those principals is God.

You can't debate the concept of God or the importance of belief if you do not first define what your talking about. I told you the evidence is nature itself and you have chosen to disregard all I have said. You chose not to believe in God and that is your opinion. You have given no intelligent input just the same response over and over never debating any specifics. I wonder what skeletons must lie in your closet that compel your denial of accountability. You say the burden of proof is on the believer, that sounds like an escape route for those that live by "ignorance is bliss". The "burden" to find meaning in life is on each and every individual. The idea that the complex world that we live in just arose from nothing without cause to me is utterly ridiculous and unsatisfying. Cause can be traced back to the beginning of time, that is why hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

So the debate now is does effect have cause or is everything just random effect? How about a physics lesson. For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. When there is effect there is cause. When all the energy in our universe was released in the beginning, there were already rules in place which that energy would abide by, the laws of physics. Once the laws were in place it is no longer necessary for any interference because the universe is a self evolving system consistent with those rules. The only variable in the beginning was the amount of energy God set forth. The only variable now is the choice of the living to affect that intrinsic balance of positive and negative energy. The laws are not random, they were designed. The effects may appear random because whatever is possible and consistent with the rules will occur given enough time. Cause begins when time does. Change must occur to observe effects, time must pass and with it cause and effects vary.

Disbelief is the default position, burden of proof lies with the believer.

 

But that's not what the thread is about either, as the OP assumes there is a god for the purpose of this thread, and the questions within it.

 

That explains nothing. If God is such a master of good,t he stopped the evils in the world?

It absolutely does and I'll spell it out for you. I said the master of all knowledge Good and Bad. The creator of the realm and rules. There is little to no interference after creation. In our realm anything good or bad is possible. We choose. People are responsible for their own actions and sometimes the actions of others affect many adversely. God is not the patsy. The point is God is not to blame. There is no doubt that for every suffering individual there is always a specific cause, be it self inflicted or otherwise. To separate God into 2 groups of good and bad and call bad Satan is a major mistake and detracts from the idea of one complex energy. This world is about positive and negative and an intrinsic tendency towards equilibrium. That is why the power of the living to choose is so important. No matter how vast the cosmic scale is it is balanced until life chooses to offset that balance with the choice to create or destroy. It may only take a falling feather of negativity to tip the scale into oblivion.

As I have said before assertions with no evidence can be dismissed without evidence... There is no reason to assert a God or creative force or architect. It's quite possible the laws of nature are completely random when a universe expands from what ever they expand from, you have no evidence that contradicts this...

 

And again, your belief is not knowledge...

Isn't it just as possible if not probable that those laws are not random? When in fact we know that they have symmetry, harmony, limits, and natural constants. It is your assertion that has no evidence. What differs is how we view the origin of existence, the concept of God.

None the less on this forum to make a positive assertion requires evidence, even in the religion section. It is not a pulpit for you to assert your beliefs...

Have you not asserted your disbelief ? Your comments are hypocritical, and you missed the point. We disagree on the critical issues, is there a God and how do we define God? If one realizes that God is the master of all knowledge good, and bad, the opening post is explained. The responsibility lies with us, that is the gift of choice. The natural process is equilibrium.

No the properties of nature require no creator, no master, they reflect nothing but natural processes, your belief in this is nothing but belief and belief is not knowledge... It is not self evident to me and I'm guessing few others on this site would not support such meaningless assertions...

And what rules do those natural processes abide by if not the laws of nature. You profess those laws arose from nothing as if to have no meaning. All processes have rules to follow, natural constants, did those parameters just appear or were they designed? This is where we disagree, I claim they have an origin, a supreme lawmaker, the complex energy of God. What laws do you abide by? I believe in knowledge. God is the master of all knowledge. The assertions are not meaningless, they depend on a belief in God, one that discludes nothing, no one. The origin of everything.

i'm not sure what is ridiculous about it ?

if anything what is ridiculous is the thought of,

coming to a physics forum and spew religious crap as if you will/would have made a differences to anything.

but in reality the only thing that you have accomplish is shown logical people how ridiculous religion is.

but the funny thing for me is,

religious people are so secluded from reality and in their mentality that they can not see how ridiculous it is.

Your statement is ridiculous because this is a religious forum for the debate of religion, which you were happy to do until you had nothing more than a biased response against "religious people." If your referring to those who believe in God, you may be surprised at how many "scientist" believe in God but do not believe in the refutable orthodox claims of mainstream religions.

I'm always curious as to why the religious individuals can not just stick to the the religious forums.

I'm far more curious as to the motives of any individual who would vote positive on such a ridiculous statement.

I'm always curious as to why the religious individuals can not just stick to the the religious forums.

You mean like this religious forum on a science website? The two topics are not only interesting, but are also intrinsically linked. The psychological reward for accepting one's master is humility. Then one may master ones' self.

If you believe in a master of infinite knowledge, the supreme lawmaker, the origin of complex energy, then nature itself is all the evidence you'll ever need. You either do, or don't, the answer is your choice. I do.

This is nothing but double talk, if you are going to make these assertions you will have to do better than that... Circular reasoning is not evidence of anything...

More like hindsight is 20/20. No double talk just clear answers to your response. The dynamic properties of nature are self evident and reflect a master. I believe that master is God.

krash661, My response to you had nothing to do with your lunch choice conversation with Seriously disabled in post #29. There was a deeper meaning to my conversation though I think you were out to lunch. Choice, like life, is a privilege, and all are manifestations of the complex energy of God.

I have some thoughts on that as well, but not the TV stuff but that is another thread...

 

 

 

Complexity arises from chaos spontaneously, no architect is necessary or implied, evolution is a prime example of this...

 

 

Created by what? Created how? What evidence do you have for this assertion?

The architect creates the realm and rules in which spontaneous complexity occurs. The fact that spontaneous complexity occurs from chaos is evidence of architectural rules, like specifications for a blueprint. If nothing occurs then nothing would be implied.

It's interesting that the knowledge supposedly given to us directly from god is wrong...

Only if you believe what profits have claimed to be the word of God. If you realize those words were mans meager attempt to describe what already exists, and using incomplete knowledge and various languages, you recognize the problem. Real truth does not change, it is undeniable. Science unveils that truth. The language of truth is science and mathematics. The knowledge directly given to us from God is the complex reality in which we exist.

tell me the difference between a god that exists but does not manifest in this reality and a god that does not exist.

 

I'm not sure what this even means,

 

I choose what i have for lunch every single day.

Everything that exists is a manifestation of the energy of God. It can not be created or destroyed, only transformed. Its sum was there at the beginning and will be in the end. Life is the only variable. Choice can transform its inherent balance into oblivion or perpetual infinity.

For me the evidence is in the complex architecture of reality. It implies an architect. If you believe in that concept, the gravity of choice is well understood. Our realm was created with the rules of science, choice is ours.

We have a search for knowledge already. It's called science. Religion should be scrapped as the out-dated bigotry it is.

Which is exactly why science is the religion of God. It is the study of knowledge. God is the master of all knowledge. As I've said in the past, those who seek knowledge, seek God. All knowledge already exists whether we've obtained it or not. What we have obtained falls far short of the complete glory of God.

Some times doing whats best doesnt always feel good, in fact it can hurt like hell. What sets humans apart is the ability to contemplate a desired outcome or consequences and execute the act whether it feels good or not. It is the beauty of choice and God has granted mankind the privilege. Positive and negative both have a time and place and are always intrinsic to nature.

Enlightenment is an increase in awareness. It is attained as knowledge is absorbed. It is a continuous process for all open minds that are continually learning. When we are children we start with an empty space. As we grow that space is filled and expands. Awareness is what keeps us from stepping in that big pile of dung around the next corner. A few tips for recognizing those who possess some level of enlightenment:1) Humility, no body knows it all, but everyone can strive to 2)Treat others with respect if you want respect. 3) Create and destroy when necessary. 4)Listen before you speak 5) Recognize danger when it is present.6)Know when you've made a mistake and dont be afraid to say your sorry. 7)Control your emotions and focus your energy, transforming fear to energy can be a powerful asset. 8) In a world as crowed as ours, be grateful if you can control spitting distance around you, life is a privilege, not a right 9)We all live and die, cherish every moment 10)The more enlightened we are the more we understand, but watch out, knowledge can be extremely dangerous, it can crush the weak and drive the strong to insanity.

The existence of God has been debated in great detail in post "we are the players". Defining God is the first step. In our universe there is a natural tendency for positive and negative to equalize. The median of which is an oscillation between the two. Without life the final outcome will always be zero. It is the power of the living to choose to create or destroy. Life is the variable. God is the master of all creation, positive and negative. We are responsible for our choices. Religion should be re-written as the search for knowledge.

It would be a good start.

Do you understand that many variations on the theme of religion are at odds with that idea?

The Bible tells us that we were doing fine until we sought the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Many scientists (and others) have been persecuted over the years for investigating truth.

So, it seems to me that a good way to make progress towards the goal of improving knowledge would be to get rid of religion.

The words of man will always be proportional to mans knowledge. Realizing this fact will allow us to redefine religion as the search for knowledge. If we can cooperate, if we can compromise, if we can live long enough, the pursuit of knowledge will answer all our questions. Isn't the pursuit of knowledge the focus of all religions?

The big question now becomes, do you believe in the master of infinite knowledge? I do. I believe that master is God.

ECT and supergravity are accepted, fully supported theories now? (As opposed to proposals with no experimental confirmation) That's the difference between "gravity is" and "gravity might be"

The experiments are happening now. The nature of gravity already exists. How well it is defined is what might be.