Tetrahedrite

This is an extremely good point!! I have often wondered how christians are able to align themselves with the right and extreme right side of politics. As I have said in another thread, this side of politics seems to be selfish and morally questionable, attributes that are often given to "liberals".

This issue is an extension of what I have said in my previous post. For the first time in my memory, Aboriginal issues were not mentioned at all during the election campaign. In answer to your question, I think most of the responsibility for Aboriginal health, welfare, housing etc comes from the federal government, not the states. The record of all federal governments over the years has been dispicable. I do not have time to go into all issues, you could write a book on them. Did you know that Australia is the only country in recent history to commit complete genocide? Every single indiginous person living in Tasmania was wiped out or moved during the early 19th century.

I agree with a lot of what you have said here, but unlike most, I don't have a short memory. John Howard has lost all integrity in my mind. Australia was once considered a good, safe, responsible, compasionate country but I fear the Liberals are leading down a path from which we will never return. Australia now has the second biggest gap between rich and poor in the industrialised world, behind the US. We have the second highest rate of casuals in the work force, behind the US. Our public hospitals and public schools are in a terrible state via lack of funding. My campus at UWS (a science based campus) is being shut down because the governments new funding formula means that science is too expensive to run. We are a much bigger target for terrorists now than ever before. The government talks of invading sovereign countries in our region. And most dispicable of all, we keep children in detention for up to two years for something they had no choice in. As someone said (I don't know who, but its stuck in my mind) "We don't live in an economy, we live in a society). The economy is important, but it shouldn't be the only consideration. I don't wan't our country to become Americanised (no offense to anyone here) where near on everything is run by corporations (even the government, apparently) because their motive is always profit, above all else. The government has full control of the senate now, and you can be sure that when people voted for the Liberals they weren't voting for the full sale of Telstra, the destruction of worker's rights and the death of independent media; these issues were hardly even mentioned during the campaign. I fear the next three years, the government can pass any legislation it desires, without scrutiny of any type. This is bad for our country. P.S. Although they are out dated now, the Union Movement has done enormous good in Australia in the last 100 years via improved working conditions and safety and better pay for all (not just union members). They can be obstructive at times, but their overall philosophy, that the workers are important as well as making profits, is in my view honourable. P.P.S I make no apologies for being what our US colleagues would call "liberal". I see right wing policies as bordering on selfish and blind-sited, and as I have stated before countries as rich as our own who can't look after their sick, disabled and disadvantaged are in my view morally defunct.

My apologies, I did not intend to suggest that we should have a Greek style democracy, my point was that if the majority of the people you represent don't want you to do something, then you shouldn't do it! The government serves the people, not the other way around.

The most interesting thing about the survey is that bush got the best result (37%) in the Middle East, of all places!! A large number of expats must of participated.

In Australia, very few people that I know doubt the credibility F9/11. I can, however, see that if I was an American I would not want to be told who to vote for by a movie producer with a grudge. In light of the result, it is clear that it has not swayed the voting public but it may very well of had the effect of making a larger portion of the world hostile to the re-elected Bush administration. Another thing that is potentially worrying is that it may help recruit terrorists who have one further thing to hate the US about.

As skye said, the Australian Labor Party sits just to the left of the Liberals/Nationals, although they are quickly closing the gap. Some of their policies are almost identical. Where the main difference lies is that Labor believes that a country as rich as ours shouldn't chuck the sick, disabled, infirm and disadvantage to the dogs because they can't get high paying jobs. We used to have a universal system of free health care for all, free education for all, and a safety net for the disadvantaged. These things are quickly going down the drain in favour of a "user pays" system, where the richer you are, the better health care and education you get. As for how conservative our whole political environment is, in my opinion, all five of our major paties (Liberals, Nationals, Labor, Democrats, Greens) all have more compasionate policies towards the people they represent than the two major US parties. I have to qualify this by saying that this is based on my observations and not on any statistical source

Although it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks in terms of the final result, the result does affect the rest of the world (unfortunately) and it is therefore legitimate for people to be concerned with US politics.

As is the case in Australia. Around 60% of people objected to the war. Howard won the election because of a scare campaign about interest rates, not because of his support for the war. By the way, winning an election doesn't give you a mandate!

As a matter of opinion, and as a scientist, I think that all conservative christians are nuts, but I emphasise that this is most definitely only my opinion. I believe that governments should be secular, and that any religious input (from any denomination or other religious persuasion) should be completely ignored as a matter of principal. For clarification, John Howard (or "Bush's lapdog" as I like to call him) is indeed conservative, and is the leader of the Liberal Party (as confusing as that may be). Although he is conservative I would still say he sits slightly to the LEFT of the Democrats in the US Also you shouldn't get independent media mixed up with liberal media; for the record his oponent Mark Latham got a bigger beat up in the press. We also have a different voting system here in Australia, the liberal party would have got about 43% of the vote, but a preferential system and a coalition with the National Party gives them the power.

Why did the white bear dissolve? Because he was polar (One for thew chemists)

Amen to that

As I said when Howard won the election over here: "People deserve the government they voted for". Take that as you will. Just an interesting point, I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but over here the conservative, anti-worker, pro-Bush party are called the Liberal Party, which cofused the hell out of me when I was first learning about political systems around the world.

I agree this is going nowhere and will not continue on because agreement will never be reached For the record I am not anti-American in any way. I am anti war for war's sake, anti Bush and anti conservative christian. I have many friends from the US that I have met while at University and all are great people. I left out Afghanistan because I agree with the action that was taken. It was backed by the UN, there was a proven terrorist threat and the action was not taken unilaterally or pre-emptively. Well done to the USA. As a last point, I am not having an arguement for arguements sake, and am not trying to stir up trouble. I honestly and passionately believe that GW Bush is the most dangerous and incompetent leader in the world today and I believe the more it is discussed in the world, the more people will come to the same realisation

Are none of the points made in the previous post valid?

Still waiting for someone to enlighten me. I think the fact is that no one will be able to give a reasonable answer because there isn't one. People know deep down inside themselves that there really was no justification. Whether or not you support the war is not relevant. Was there any justification in the first place?

Iraq is basically on the other side of the world from the USA. Iraq was not threatening to invade any allies of the USA. It was not threatening to invade any sovereign country. It posed abolutely no threat to any of the coalition members with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. It had no links to terrorist organisations that do threaten the USA (as proved by an inquiry after the fact). Weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq to check for WMD and found none (for good reason). Most of the rest of the world opposed the action through the UN. The invasion did not have UN backing. So what justification does the USA have to invade Iraq? Using this logic Australia could go and invade, say, Canada and would not be held accountable. Do you understand why I consider the war illegal?

A man who has managed to escape capture or execution by the biggest military superpower in the world is not stupid. It is not just a coincidence that the video was released less than a week before and election. He knows that telling people not to vote for bush will have the opposite effect and Bush's policies are conducive to the recruitment of terrorists to fight "infidels"

As I have said in another thread, it is obvious I don't know why the decision was made to invade Iraq. Can someone please enlighten me because I am at a loss to see how so many people can support a man I see as a tyrrant.